Im not letting it drop, i have given them seven days for a response to my complaint, if no satisfactory response is returned i shall take it further. I have been doing some research on youtube an interesting clip is the undercover bailiff the BBC did a few years ago. Shows this shower for what they really are, thugs and menaces to society i firmly believe they are not qualified or have the gumption to do real honest jobs but thieve off others misfortune and mistakes, really needs changing. I am hoping the goverments white paper that is due shortly will really radiclise this outdated medieval system. They should be qualified to a higher education standard, and follow strict guidelines, and on each visit these guidelines and procedures should be given to debtor with a copy of their rights. I fear in this day and age some people may jst get pushed over the edge

And now for the good news, I have just this moment come off the phone to Jacobs, and after paying the council yesterday and sending both the council and Jacobs firm but threatening email in regards to the conduct, I have been told now the fine is clear and no further action is to be taken. Proving the point that by sticking your guns and your rights you can have a good outcome i do hope my run in will be hope for others who become succumbed into paying over the odds and losing sleep over their reckless attitude and greedy wants. Stu here is a copy of the email i sent. not really quoting law but showing anger towards them. Dear Council i have mailed you with this email i have sent your bailiffs, they need investigating promptly. Dear Jacobs. I have sought legal advice and i am now following it. I have paid the council directly of 112 pounds to cover the original fine. Seeing as the fine as now been paid no further action should be taken as the warrant you hold is out of date and can not be re issued as it now paid. The fees you are charging are extortionate and the 55 pounds you have had off me already should cover any fees that you incurred, even though i shall seek legal advice to see if i can recover that money too. Be under no illusion that this matter is over. I am very angry at the standards you have. You have harassed me via phone when the warrant you held was out of date, you've altered a legal document which is a criminal act in itself and will be relayed to the relevant authorities. After numerous requests for proof of visits that you say you did it still did not materialise all i got was a screen shot of my case and the co ordinates of my old address. As i have stated before tracker systems do log vehicle movements by map and you could not give me a copy of that. I deem it inconceivable that one of your employees Mr Ellis would travel all that way charge me and not even leave a letter, even though on the dates stated my wife was in. Also if you have set fees for visits why is there 3 different amounts ? I have checked the register for bailiffs and Mr Ellis doesn't seem to be registered no bailiff at your company had a surname of Ellis on the on-line register is this an oversight or yet again another malpractice. In short i don't think your company should be in charge of taking such revenue for councils or companies that the public should have every trust in. You should be collecting money thats owed in a correct manner and for the correct amounts. Not inflating costs well above the Governments outlines and you definitely shouldn't be taking the law into your own hands and saying you can do things that you obviously cant. I await your response within 7 days before i instruct a solicitor to recover my fee and damages for the harassment. I shall also be contacting the relevant bodies to investigate your practices and procedures as they are blatantly wrong and you have even sent me the evidence to prove it in the falsified warrant and the recorded harassment calls.

Can't see that being right, only the bailiffs can recover their fees surely. That's the case when dealing directly with the bailiffs but the council can only take money in good will and take payment against a recognised reference number for said amount. They surely can't take it then give it to the bailiffs and then want more

I'm under the impression so long as the amount on the warrant is paid to the authority or court then the bailiff as only his fees to chase.

Speak to the council again if the traffic section can't help speak to the finance people. Tell them your willing to pay the original fine. I'm certain they can't stop you. Then it's just bailiff fees which are unenforceable. Will all work out sit tight and know yours and there rights and it will all work out

If your ex forces try SSafa and the legion they will help if needed. I needed there help ahead or two ago when I lost my job very helpful

they cant refuse payment at the council, this i know from a personal experience i have finally put to bed today. They must take payment if offered it may be more than the original 70 now though, mine was 112. This i thought better than the 348 jacobs are wanting. When paid the council must inform the Bailiffs that payment as been recieved and then its in their court for fees and costs. Hence Jacobs wont be getting anything from me now. A warrant is only valid for 12 months and one day from date of issue from TEC and cannot be renewed after the 12 months this i do know from personal experience. hope it helps

who would be the independent body i need to contact?

well this link as made me chuckle, this is the civea code of condut, i dont think id get any joy complaining to these about jacobs, See part of the responsibilities of Debtor, longer than any other section in document...... http://www.civea.co.uk/editorimages/CIVEACodeofConductandGoodPracticeGuide-10-9-11.pdf

do it by email and send a copy to the council too asking for copy of receipts. they cannot refuse this. if they do try freedom of information act.

This what I was trying to say at the beginning of the thread' I stalled them for the twelves months, I don't get bullied off anyone. Jacobs now have too if they so wish take civil action to claim their "reasonable costs" which stands at 290 pounds! FAT CHANCE of that. The MOJ states that reasonable costs mustn't be more than 28% of the fine and I'm taking it that includes VAT. They are just legalised criminals. Loan sharks offer better APR. what worries me is that the councils and official bodies know it goes on but do little to protect people in a fearful position. They use fear and intimidation to extract their fees. Today I tried to contact the regulators of the bailiffs their name escapes me at the moment, but they seem impossible to reach even, can't complain via phone or email? Come on in this day and age who still operates like that? I am determined now to pursue this further and take action if possible. If enough of us on here have been victims of their ways could we not club together and do a class action to regain costs and damages?

So basically twelve months from date of issue is the bailiffs window to force payment legally.

I read it that a warrant is only valid for twelve months and can only be reissued for issues like change of address after that twelve months no warrants will be reissued then I think I'm right in saying its a civil matter after that. Confusing and loads of grey areas. I'll keep you updated on Jacobs next move now Stu

Thanks Tom tubby I had a feeling I had read that on the MOJ website

Don't pay another penny, take it back to court and let the judge decide what you can afford. Contact CAB see what you can claim. Contact local charities and housing as what your being left to live on is harrowing on this day and age. Don't succumb to Jacobs they are moronic crooks who would be quite happy to see you without a penny.

Well I have paid the 112 pounds today directly to the council. This should end the matter of Jacobs coming knocking. I have been given a load of gumph of these morons and been blatantly lied too. Not only did they send out a falsified document when asked for a copy of the warrant. They lied to me a about their charges and fees. It states clearly on the MOJ website site that reasonable costs can be no more than 28% of the original fine. So how does 80 plus 20 pounds for vat equate to 28% of 112. They are nothing more than crooks and the worst of it is the councils know this goes on. When I complained to them in regards to Jacobs bailiffs"we'll if their all nicey nicey about we'll never get any money"? Blood instantly boiled and I pointed out that altering a legal document was a graver offence than my original parking ticket and any collaborators should be brought against a judge.it went eerily quiet. so any fees Jacobs want they can just whistle for now as I would be quite happy with the evidence they provided to show in front of a judge and watch them lie out of that one. Thanks for the advice guys and anybody else in a similar situation don't let these modern day dick turpins beat you.

I think the problem with the tracing payment is that last year they was upgrading all their payment systems but as you point out it should be in a surplus account if unaccounted for. I'm just going to pay Wigan again to at the very least put a spanner in Jacobs works. Could do without the hassle

Thanks for the advice, the manager at the council was helpful and is investigating my complaint about the Bailliffs, I shall pay the council direct as as she said she can't stop me but it may not stop jacobs chasing me for their fees, but with the fine paid it becomes a different debt I believe, I did also mean they couldn't trace payment,

The original amount was 112 and working out the maths on the guidelines for reasonable costs the most they can charge is 190 with the money I've paid already deducted. I am not paying over the odds

It was rejected due to Wigan council being unable to trace the warrant. Are you sure it can be reissued? The council are happy for me to pay the outstanding fine which just makes the fees of the bailiffs an unenforceable debt? I did file it under bill already paid but got knocked back. I have no car so not intimidated by threats but do want to get them off my case, I am sure by law I am able to request an hearing if the warrant does get reissued,

Alls well that ends well. You will not receive a criminal record for this. If you didn't have the means to pay it would of been a whole different story

Bloody iPad, that makes no sense what so ever, hope you get the jist of it.

It will be a story you will be telling your kids in a while nd laughing about it, Sounds as though your a decent individual who is full of remorse and guilt for an action out of character, it was a lapse of concentration, I dd it with. Large Bag of dried dog food which I put on the shelf under the trolley asked paid for my shopping, went to the car ad relished what I'd one, went back in nd lid I hasten to add, but these things happen to the best of us, Seems the cameras are just trained on to th " luxury items" just ask Anthony wOrral Thomson the chef, he was done for something similar earlier this year

Sorry for the grammar, done on my iPad

Well I originally filled the out of time when I first had a knock on the door from Jacobs, I sent off the forms along with the proof of payment "the bank statement" as I recall Wigan council were overhauling there payment systems around the time I paid it, so this may of been why they couldn't trace payment as this was the excuse I received off wign, so in theirs and TEC I was still liable!. I am far from a mug I do not want to pay for so etching again that I've paid for but I've got to look at the greater picture as my wife's parents are in serious ill health and she under enough pressure already, so pay ing 112 to Wigan again now the warrant is out of date is small sacrifice. If it takes the fear of random gorillas knocking on our door. I received today a breakdown of Jacobs fees and a copy of the warrAnt, I have been charged for vist 3 times with 3 different amounts. Letter van attendance, now I've read the regulation they've quoted and it states clearly, 11.20 for letter, and a maximum of 20% of fine to be added on if no levy took place, I've questioned subsequent visits as no calling cards or enters left so asked for proof visits via their vehicles tracker systems. A fair request seeing how much they want to charge. Also their fees must be as though their acting as county court bailiff, Also the warrant they've sent looks dubious, it has no authorizing signature, addressed to my current address yet was issued at my old one, we've only been here 7 weeks, and the warrant run out on the 15th of August. It's unclear whether the warrant cn be reissued as I've heard conflicting views, on the MOJ site on the matter it's states cannot be reissued unless change of address but must still run in the Same periods. So in a nutshell I've paid once, Wigan can't trace payment, me still liable, Warrant out of date can/ can't re issued unclear, For peace of mind pay again whilst warrant invalid and move on, recover fee later. Also I can't trace the bailiff on the register is this common ?