Not in the s/s. But it is a legitimate cost that can be claimed on the N1,which you gave notice of in the DPA letter.

so far I have had 4 recordeds that have done this. When you call to file a complaint they check another system and for all 4 of mine they showed there. Try calling them and see what they can find.

Hi Hudu, I think it is best to start with the Data protection Letter to make sure YOU haven't missed anything. You can include all charges which are penalty charges, eg bounced cheques, unpaid DD, unauthorised OD, late payments charges etc. Read as much as you can on the ite and post any quesions. You will find lots of support her. Good Luck Nona

Hi Bill Yeah I've been through this 6 year's worth of data issue with my bank. I sent the SAR to my branch who sent it on to their central Network Support people. They replied that they had received my request for six years and would supply it. I got back to them and said - no not six years, all - they wrote back saying that six years was all they could provide. At that stage I wrote to them asking them where it said this in the Data Protection Act and also wrote to my branch manager informing her as to what was going on with an SAR that had originally been addressed to her branch. Within two days I had a letter back from her apologising for me being given incorrect info and promising all my records. They arrived a few days later 39 days after the date of my SAR (which I reminded them of in all my letters). Which was quite a coincidence...

Only 6 years is what the banks would like us to believe they hold & its nonsense. Their records go back much further & they are holding onto everything of late for the purposes of Money Laundering reporting

There is no other opinion but to use alternatives when claiming contractual interest though, and it's not an unusual thing to do. It isn't 'farting about', it's a perfectly acceptable approach. Besides, it's not for the defendant to decide if the argument is weak. If they think they smell fear and want to take it to court, we're prerfectly prepared to go. Most of the particulars are actually from the standard template, it's the interest rate sections that differ to cater for contractual interest. We thought it would be best to include reasoning for claimng the contractual interest. Mindzai

Zoot is right, in English Law you cannot clear a debt in full by only giving part payment. A creditor can happily agree to less then the full amount and still chase you for the balance. This rule developed to prevent unscrupulous debtors from holding people to ransom over their money, ie, "Either accept 50% or you'll get nowt.". This would especially be a problem to people or businessess who were financially strapped who could not afford to turn down the part payment. Technically, by offering part payment you are creating a seperate contract and as you are giving no valuable consideration then the contract never existed. Part payment of a debt will be considered full and final settlement if you give some other form of valuable consideration as well. On your debt of £1400 you may offer £700 plus a bottle of wine or, as a famous example from law a "Tom-tit, or a Canary", but part payment alone cannot clear the debt. Whatever you do offer doesn't need to equal the value of the debt financially, you could offer a peppercorn in settlement of the entire debt and if accepted that would be that, it just has to be of some economic value. Early payment is considered to be good consideration as it is of economic value to the creditor. You were paying through a debt plan so presumably your final settlement date was several years away. By offering a lower amount sooner you were giving valuable consideration to the contract. It is seen to be a benefit to the creditor to have less money sooner, rather than wait longer for the full amount. So, no, you can't be pursued for the money. I'm not that up on how credit files should be marked as far as these things go but my feeling is that as long as they have accepted an amount in full and final settlement your file should be showing a £0.00 balance. P.

In section G I wrote: I am claiming back charges levied against me by abbey bank between XX and YY. I would argue that the bank have deliberately concealed their true charges and have turned what should be liquidated damages into an unlawful penalty charge. It is contested by the defendant that the fees levied are "proportionate to the Defendants administrative expenses incurred due to the Claimants Breach of Contract, and are a genuine pre-estimate to the damage suffered by the Defendant". In order for the defendant to substantiate this argument, it will be necessary for evidence to be produced showing how these fees have been calculated, presumably this will mean the Defendant will be relying on detailed accounting information. If this is the case the it would be reasonable to ask that this evidence be made available prior to any court hearing in order that I may be able to properly analyse it

I suggest you just send them a bill for the letters anyway, if they don't pay, then go through small claims for an unpaid debt.

Hello Cad If you have ALL your statements for the period you are reclaiming charges over, then you don't need to request any information under the data protection act. You can fill in the spreadsheets with all the charges that have been levied on your account, then dive straight in with the Prelim letter asking them for your money back. If you have'nt got all the information, or you have parts missing that you would like to have, then you send them a SAR, and this then gives them 40 days to get the info to you under the DPA. Once you have done this, they will acknowledge it with a bog standard letter telling you that they are looking into your complaint and some rubbish about info on their system being stored on microfiche, which is an age old filing system which they think lies outside of the DPA(but it is'nt!!!!), and that they will get it to you when they can. After you receive this letter there is a template in the library on this site that you can send them that tells them that basically they are wrong and the 40 days are ticking!!!! After the 40 days, you can then put in a claim based on the statements you have in your possession, whilst you wait for them to get the other info to you. At the same time you can send them a prelim letter for non compliance to your SAR, which gives them a further 7 days to get the info to you or you'll take them to court for it. Come back for any further advice as you get down the line of getting your money back. Its no easy ride, but is one worth fighting for!!!!! Phil:)

Depends - there should be two dates on it (date of issue and date of offence). Both of them should match, however the date of issue must always be the SAME or AFTER the date of offence. Your (completely) legal defence to this should be "The alledged contravention did not occur" which is a defence under the Road Traffic Act 1991. Your second offence would also be "the traffic order is invalid." I personally think you have a great case to get your ticket cancelled. My advice would be to write a letter to them, explaining where you were and what you were doing at the time on the ticket - obviously not where you got the ticket. Helps if you have proof - receipt from Tesco or something similar - but not essential at this stage. Then go on to state the two above reasons why you wish to appeal this ticket - the traffic order is invalid and the alleged contravention did not occur. Therefore, unless they provide you with sufficient evidence to the contrary, you would like this matter closed and confirmation in writing from them. PLEASE NOTE that more and more wardens have cameras which take pictures, but not all of them so fingers crossed!!!

I'm not quite with you there. It all depends on what type of "criminal record" you're talking about. Any conviction for any offence will generate a "criminal record" in the broadest sense, i.e. a record that you have been convicted of the specified offence. For the purposes of supplying a record of criminal convictions to people such as prospective employers this is carried out via the Criminal Records Bureau. Their own definition of "criminal record" is the same as that used on the Police National Computer (PNC). An offence only appears on PNC if it is a recordable offence as defined by the National Police Records (Recordable Offences) Regulations 2000. This is further reinforced by the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974, which states that (except for certain excluded purposes) convictions become "spent" after a certain amount of time and so do not appear on a "criminal record" generated by the CRB (but will appear on PNC). So, whether you have a "criminal record" in the sense of someone performing a CRB check on you depends on what you were convicted for (is it a recordable offence?) and how long ago it was (is it spent?). And, for info, driving without insurance is a criminal offence (s. 143 of the Road Traffic Act 1988) but is not a recordable offence so it doesn't generate a PNC/CRB criminal record. Note that some offences may appear on PNC if you were convicted of a recordable offence in the same proceedings. So, if you were convicted of drink driving (a recordable offence) and driving without insurance (a non-recordable offence) both would be recorded: Reg 3(3) of the National Police Records (Recordable Offences) Regulations 2000. Bandit, I don't know what job you do/did but I hope you weren't a police officer.

Great lette,r just a few little bits and bobs (soz to be so pedantic) they are all in bold, with "corrections" or whatever next to them...

I'm inclined to agree, RBS do seem to be unwilling to go to court and don't seem keen on getting involved in a slugging match. I was offered full settlement after I sent off my LBA. No more toying with them, send them the LBA!!!! I'm not sure I've got this correct or not, but it seems like you are giving them 14 days to respond after each rejection letter? The 14 days should be from your first letter and any rejection letter you send should have a deadline of however many days are left of that deadline not another 14 (hope that made sense) otherwise you will be hanging round forever and Christmas is only round the corner lol.

Ok, so you have not yet received your statements via your S.A.R.? Have they cashed the cheque? If they have, then they must have received your letter. In your letter of the 20th, did you write to tell them the account was in dispute? Make sure that in future you send your letters recorded delivery - they will use any excuse not to comply with your requests. When you begin claiming back your charges make sure that you include the line about the default removal. It is highlighted red in the template letters. This is very important. If you don't include it as part of your claim, the chances of you having the default removed once your claim has been settled is remote. It must be on ALL your letters and your Court Claim. I would suggest that you send the letters again RECORDED DELIVERY. If the cheque has been cashed for the S.A.R., then send them another copy of the letter and make it clear that the 40 day countdown has begun from the day they cashed your cheque - again make sure it is RECORDED DELIVERY. Hope this helps & keep us posted!

Here you go, this should stop them in their tracks. Change the bits in bold (and unbold them obviously!) Make sure you go online and acknowledge service of the paperwork, this will give you 28 days instead of the usual 14 days. Full instructions should be with the claim. DO NOT send them any money, or bother talking to Nat West. Just send them this letter, and wait patiently. Your Address etc Bryan Carter & Co Solicitors Persimmon House, Dehavilland Drive Brooklands Business Park Weybridge KT13 0NT Date Dear Sir In the XXXX County Court National Westminster Bank plc -v- (YOUR NAME) Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER) REQUEST FOR FURTHER INFORMATION I have today filed the Acknowledgement of Service (copy attached) in order that I may file my Defence to these proceedings in due course. By my calculations this must be filed and served no later than 4.00pm on (28 days from the date you received the court claim). However, before doing so, I take the view that your pleadings are not entirely clear and as such, do not appear to disclose any reasonable cause of action against myself. Although this matter may be suitable for the Small Claims Track the purpose of this letter is to make a request for some additional information in order to fully understand your claim and how it is calculated. I note in your pleadings that you are claiming (alleging) that an amount of £AMOUNT is ‘part of a debt due under an agreement number (AGREEMENT NUMBER)’, and also that I ‘agreed to pay the Claimant £(TOTAL)’ – however you do not provide details of how you have reached these amounts, nor any information, or a copy of this ‘agreement number (AGREEMENT NUMBER)’ you refer to. In light of this, can you please provide me with the following: A true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. How you calculate the sum of £(AMOUNT) How you calculate the sum of £(TOTAL) We would be grateful if you would respond within 21 days of the above date. In the event that I do not hear from you at the end of this period, I may apply for your Claim to be struck out on the grounds that it does not disclose any reasonable cause of action against me, together with an Order for Costs in the Defendant’s favour. I trust that you will note this particular point. In any event, kindly acknowledge safe receipt of this letter. Yours faithfully, YOUR NAME

To be honest, I think you are wasting time. If you had sent an LBA at the start of October, I think you may have been settled by now. If I were you, I would just hit them with it (the LBA, that is) and stress that you have made every reasonable effort to settle without litigation. Set them a deadline of (at most) a week and even phone them the morning before you file. I think this would probably be your best course of action, but at the end of the day, it's your call. j

thanks everyone, I sent all letters previous to court to bishopgate, then to cobbetts

Ok - what i did was send a letter declining offer and then i waited any way until the two weeks were up even though they responded with an offer, then i filed moneyclaim on that day. Hope that helps

I would advise against it. A postal order i'm sure would be acceptable. Sometimes they wont always cash the payment so you may get it back with your statements. Good Luck

Sorry to jump in on your thread Mo Clive? so your claim is at court now? if yes keep checking your bank account, I feel Fridays a Good Day For You.....

Hi dollies01, Thats certainly the way i did it provided thirty days have elapsed from the date they appeared in your charges section as that is when they are applied to your account and then appear as fees paid in the main body of your statement! Its a much quicker way of doing it rather than sifting through every page an you can bet your last penny if its contained in your charges section then they will take it from you on the thirty day mark Let me know if this helps.

Okay, I ought to call this a day and not dig in my heals and , I agree, maybe it would be good for us all to know on some kind of posting from the mods that ' with the donations we have been able to update our server or get some new books or taken on some paid staff to help out with all the chores' fair enough I can recognise that point, but to ask them to be accountable or publish where donations are spent ? come on ! The site is free, free to speak , free to use, BF and dave trust our consciences, never ask for anything back and only suggest that if we have got something out of using the forum we consider putting something back - alot of people put a lot of time back into it ( not me by the way by comparrison with hundreds of others) others use the site and donate to say thanks - they jumped on the bus and donated something for the journey - I feel that having been on the site myself since March and listened to the many early arguments put forward for trying to support the site, anyone who has watched this grow and the dynamics behind it shouldn't and wouldn't question where the proceeds go and to even ask seems an embarrassment. What should be 'transparrent' is the work that these people put in ( if it is not noticed already), the risks that have been taken, the financial hardships suffered by the founders and their supporters and loss of a personal life they must have suffered getting the site up and running in the initial stages and the months of unpaid hours dedicated then maybe people would not have to ask where and on what the donations are spent and might just feel a little ashamed in asking. What will you say once you know? You didn't like what it was spent on? Thus opening up a whole new debate as per veryannoyed's post of 27 September above. I think I'll stop posting on the thread now because I, like you all have finished my ranting. I respect all of you for your opinions - but beg to differ.

Wait for your statements to arrive, and make sure that you include the request for default removal in your letters requesting the refund of your charges. See the template letters in the library for more info. Make sure that when you file your money claim, you include the request for default removal on your claim. Good Luck.

First thing is for your father to ring the bank and cancel the direct debits. Might be an idea if he also gives instructions to the bank not to accept any new direct debits from him. Ask him if he has had anyone at the door or on the phone talking about a change of supplier-possibly as much as a month ago. He will probably say no as his current supplier would have written to him and the new one should have contacted him too. Also, he should have had his meter read. If none of that has happened, it is possible that he is the victim of a [problem] or has been cloned. That would be confirmed if he is still registered with his usual supplier. He will need copies of the signed direct debits, though it is possible they were completed over the phone. Go to the police with the details he has and get a crime number. Contact the bank and ask them to reverse the payments.

the search bar at the top of this section is really useful have a go and see what comes up, you may get lots of threads but go through them , the words you are searching will be highlighted in red. BL:)

There's no harm in doing so. I'm also waiting on the "microfiche" statements from BC and I've written to them pointing out the Abbey situation. However so far I've not even received an acknowledgement of my letter. It's worth pointing out that the ICO decided that the way that Abbey utilise their microfiche makes it a "relevant filing system"; the ICO have not given a blanket verdict on all microfiche filing systems and BC may well argue that they utilise the microfiche differently to Abbey. Pete

Hi Laura. Didn't you make a note of what forums you were posting in ? Tut! Tut! All the following links will take you to your threads. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-stores/42602-catalogues.html http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-stores/42600-co-op.html http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/40818-help-i-m-new.html http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/41442-so-what-r-subject.html http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-our-forum/42656-where-my-postings-made.html :grin: :grin:

Hi Laura Clcik your own name on your post above and then "Find all posts by laura cooke" and you will find them and also they will be in your UserCP underr threads. welly:)

Sorry, andrew1, but I do not feel ashamed for raising a genuine concern and I really cannot believe the way I was attacked for voicing my opinion. I'm not going to start re-posting in this thread (save for this one) because it's entirely fruitless, but I suggest you go back and read through this thread from the beginning. I hope you will then realise that I never intended any malice, was never rude or abusive, and provided an opportunity for a genuine response from those with the knowledge. I never got it, which is entirely their privilege, and I am without recount to that privilege. Fine. Finally, you'll also find that I actually support the founders making something for themselves out of this, but only on the condition that this is made transparent to everyone considering a donation. I'm not interested in what you think about that idea, because loads of other people have probably told me already. As mentioned by at least one other poster, it's entirely surprising to find a forum full of apparently intelligent people vindicating someone for speaking out. Such actions promote an atmosphere of fear and hatred. This was well demonstrated by the number of PMs I got saying "I can't believe what those folk said" etc from people who didn't want to post their support for fear of similar reprisals. It's not a healthy environment for collaboration. [/rant]

The settlement figure they have offered you is in no way linked to your repayments on your account with them, it's a seperate issue. And you won't be intimidated into thinking they are.

if the calls do start again simply refuse to answer their security qurestions on the basis you have no proof of who they say they are. The call cannot continue of you don't answer their silly questions. You have no idea who it is other than their word for it, just refuse to believe them as you didnt instigate the phone call. I actually told one of the muppets one day that I was the heir to the throne of England and could he prove otherwise over a random call, 'no he said but I didnt dial Prince Charles number'... to which I replied 'prove it' he hung up on me just as I was getting started I even asked one of them for the secret password one day. 'what password' he said. 'Ah' says me 'you dont know it so this call is terminated' It can become amusing listening to them spluttering lol:lol:

Report them to the cops anyway. It wont help their case when you tell the judge about Police involvement under the Harrassment Act. You dont have to press charges, you can just ask at the desk that a note be made in the Duty Logbook about the phone calls. If the calls start again, you can go back and tell them they have started again, point out your earlier complaint in their log book and tell them you want it speak to CID about it. Adds a bit more weight to your complaint.

Hello and Welcome First of all dont panic - you will soon have your money back in your hands where it belongs!! Yes you can claim back your charges, even if you were late paying, even if you went over your limit and even if your DD Bounced!!! Remember the banks have acted unlawful you havent!!! Before you start anything make sure you read the FAQs and as many threads as possible as there is a wealth of information on here!! Before you start, make sure you start your own thread in the bank you are claiming against forum. AS you have already posted this one, I assume you already know how to do that! First you need to send this letter and Remember you can claim as far back as six years!!!! http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/516-1-data-protection-act.html next you need to send http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/671-2-letter-preliminary-approach.html I would advise that you opened a parchute account, there are details of this in the FAQ, in addition I would send your bank this letter, to stop them from taking further action whils this account is overdrawn and in dispute http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/5078-10-data-protection-act.html If you get stuck have a look (by searching) to see if your question has already been asked by reading other people threads, if you are still not sure either post your question in your own thread or PM me and I will be happy to help you. Also look for another newbie claiming against the same bank as you, that way you can do your claim together and support each other as the post drops through the door!! Sometimes it can be stressful especially if the banks start to mess you around and tell you that they will win in court - remember the banks have never once been to court they always settle first!!!!! So dont be intimedated!!!! Good Luck

I may well be wrong but to my mind once the account is settled and closed then a new agreement has to be established. If nothing else your permission to process your data ceased with the account closure and they can't just assume and restart that processing.

Your welcome, keep us posted

NAtionwide is worth doing through your local court. My particulars included the following... c) a declaration from this honourable court that the term of the contract leading to the application of the charges is unenforceable; d) A declaration that any term allowing the defendant to terminate banking services supplied to the claimant without cause is similarly unenforceable; And they agreed in the order that they wouldn't close accounts... That seems to be the trick - make it clear that you want your money back but you don't want to change banks and if they try to close as retaliation, you'll go back to court.

write and thank them for the partial refund,and that you will continue to pursue the remainder

Ok, so i took my time but i eventually got my act together and sent my preliminary letter to lloyds. I was a bit confused by by all the addresses given on here so i used the one at the top of my statement, which i sent on the 18th sept, and i neglected to send it recorded delivery, do you think i should resend to Ms. Siddique?

Yes, perhaps a little too simplistic... My advice is, and always has been, this... 1) If you do actually owe the money under a default, then pay it off, or keep to an arrangement. However, if any of it is through penalty charges (or the default notice was due to penalty charges and interest), get that back and make it a condition of the claim that they remove the default notice forever. 2) My tact with the people I've helped, and my own file, is to remove all historic data and settled accounts. I am leaving my own 'running' accounts on there - as I did give permission in my contract. Essentially, if a particular 'settled' default is causing you aggro, challenge the CRA and lender on the grounds that you have never given them permission in your contract to process your date after the cessation of the contract. The 'rule' they keep bleating about six years is a load of nonsense, and there is no statute in place. After lengthy phone calls to the OFT, I.C.O. and the CRAs, they have finally admitted that this is just the way they've done it because it's what they call "standard industry practice". My argument is that I.C.O. "recommendations", "industry practice" does not equate to "legal right", and I doubt that a judge would see it that way either. I have only got my way on settled defaults only, I haven't tried it on any outstanding ones, as I don't personally have any. But, the people I have helped out have had success with the lenders with the "missing default notice" strategy - under the CCA, if they can't find a copy of the notice, then it is deemed not to have happened. In that case, under the DPA, the data that the CRAs is storing is inaccurate, and you can demand that it is to be removed. But seriously, make THEM work for it... you don't have to do the proving, they do.... you are the one taking action (be it via correspondence or legal) against THEM. It is NOT the other way around. If they come back with ANY bulls**t whatsoever, about terms and conditions, default notices, etc., issue a demand under the CCA to get them to send you copies and ask them to highlight in those copies the exact terms that allowed them to process your data for six years after the end of the contract. Also, under the terminology of the DPA, disclosure of data is deemed a "process", so any lender that is allowed to automatically log in to your credit data to perform a search is transacting a process. Finally, don't accept any bull from these Muppets about who owns the data - it ain't them... it is you and only you alone who decides who stores and processes it (except Govt. agencies), either by signing a contract or writing to them. So next time someone shoves a contract under your nose to sign, read the Data Protection bit and edit it to YOUR satisfaction. I simply add the words "for the duration of the contract" under the entire clause and initial it (and make sure it's gone through the carbon!!) Interestingly, since I kicked up merry hell with Orange, they have since changed their standard Terms and Conditions to read: 14.3Orange or its Group companies will use your information which you provide to us together with other information for administration, marketing, credit scoring, customer services, tracking your Device and web use preferences, and profiling your purchasing preferences. We will disclose your information to our service providers and agents to help us with these purposes. We will keep your information for a reasonable period after your Contract with us has finished in case you decide to use our Services again and may contact you about our Services during this time. Note that they have used the word "reasonable" to synch with the same word in the DPA. Hmmmmmm... so be very careful about what you sign.

Printed , I do part time taxi work so they will go on the board, loads of people so printed plenty

Downloaded and ready to print! Will hang => at the gym => at my hunny's work => at the local co-op and Morrisons Brilliant idea, Spiceskull!!!

For those that have looked at their statements and may be wondering, what can i claim for?, and why are the descriptions confusing?, what about the overdraft interest is that claimable aswell? wonder no more. you can claim for anything which is deemed a penalty charge, which includes: returned direct debits, card mis-use, unpaid standing order, unpaid item, exceeding your overdraft, overdraft interest (see below), total charges (see below) notifed fees Unauthorised overdraft arrangement fees (more will be added as and when confirmation is found) you can not claim for: ATM (cash machine) usage (typically £1), an agreed overdraft fee, anything which is deemed a "service" by the bank (more will be added as and when confirmation is found) Overdraft interest This is the single most confusing part of most peoples claim, and one of the most frequently asked questions overdraft interest is applied to your whole overdraft, however if some of your overdraft is made up from (unlawfull) charges, then a proportion of the interest has been wrongly applied and is therefore reclaimable Example you have a £400 overdraft, you purchase something that day for £200 so now you are -£200 on your current account balance, but on the same day £200 of charges are placed on your account, which means that your current account balance is now -£400 and the bank will charge interest on the whole £400, but as we are contesting that these charges are unlawfull, then the interest should not be placed on the whole amount, only on the amount that you have actually spent, therefore in this example you can claim back 50% of the interest, however these calculations have to be done daily to truly reflect the amount which can be reclaimed, Dont worry, Vampiress has made a spreadsheet that will calculate this for you, you can find it here, but please read the instructions that come with it; Overdraft interest calculator thread Total charges (HSBC) Again this is another issue which many people aren't sure about, total charges are reclaimable, they are a seperate issue to the other afore mentioned charges (card mis-use, returned d-d's etc), and are not simply all of these charges added together each month. so they are also claimable on top of the other charges "total charges" also listed as notified fees refers to the charge they put on your account for going over your overdraft limit, this charge is calculated daily, and they can charge up to a maximum of £125 in one month for this, it is then debited from your account on a set date every month Important! For buisness accounts ONLY the "total charges" include a combination of reclaimable and genuine charges, and you will need a breakdown to exactly know what proportion of "total charges" are unlawful.

dont worry about it, the loan account is a seperate issue, they cant close it in the same way that you cant just decide to stop paying it, you both entered into a credit agreement, and they cant forclose your loan account as this would be breach of contract