Hello! Newbie in need of LOTS of advice :)

[samcam]

Hello to All.

 

Really don't know where to begin, or where to post. This site was recommended by a colleague at the SWPP (hello HelenSH, finally got around to posting on here!).

 

I've been reading all the posts and threads for a while. There's just SO much and it all gets very confusing:confused:. I suppose a general idea of my situation will help put you all in the picture, so here goes:-

 

£12K on Barclaycard Gold Card - currently receiving death threats from Mercers. Massive interest and late payment charges being added every month. Refused token payment offer of £1 per month and refused to hold interest.

Barclaycard did agree to stop the PPI. I couldn't afford it and it didn't protect me anyway because I'm self employed. Typically, my wife and I are now claiming unemployment as the business has collapsed!

 

 

£17K Barclayloan - dealing with CDCS who recently agreed to token payment of £1 per month for 6 months, afterwhich time they will review for a possible increase in payments.

 

 

£2800 overdraft with Barclays Bank. Agreed settlement figure of £1800 (which I borrowed of Father-in-law). Account now closed and paid off in full.

 

--------------

Some background on us and how this all happened. My wife and I run our own small photography business. 4 years ago when we started we were told by the job centre (unemployed at the time) that if we go self employed we would not be able to claim any benefits at all. We asked about housing benefits and working tax credits, but they told us "They are only for Families".

 

4 years of struggling and paying in full for everything later, with a personal loan and £8K on the creditcard, we finally decide to pull the plug and go to the CAB to find out about Bankruptcy.

You can imagine our surprise when we found out we should have been claiming housing benefit, council tax benefit and working tax credits for the last 4 years! Adds up to over £40K in benefits we've missed out on because the Job centre lied to us.

Of course it was VERBAL, so no chance of ever seeing any of it.

 

So, we stated claiming HB, CTB and WTC and with the few jobs we've had this year managed to keep our heads above water - BUT at the expense of no longer being able to pay our card or loans.

 

The overdraft was the only thing in joint names. The credit card and loan are in my name only - so I'm very tempted to declare myself bankrupt to wipe the debts - this would leave the wife free to continue the business.

 

Barcalys happily accepted a reduced settlement figure on the overdraft and for now CDCS have been ok accepting £1 per month for the loan.

But MERCERS are relentless. Phoncalls every morning at 8am, 10am 4/5pm and usually around 8:30pm (inc Sat & Sun).

I sent the template letter about only accepting written contact - they ignored it and continue to ring.

 

 

OK. Questions:-

I had my Bank account for over 20 years before I got into trouble. Is it worth looking into claiming back bank charges on this account?

Can I actually do it, even though it's now closed?

 

On my creditcard should I just start making token payments anyway and backdate the payments to when I stopped paying?

I originally took out the card about 10 years ago and I don't think PPI was a choice. Is it worth getting a copy of the original CA to see if I can claim the PPI back?

 

 

ANY advice on all this would be great. I'm just terrified that we're going to get heavies knocking on the door - I know techically they're not allowed, but does that really ever stop them?

 

Hope to hear from some of you soon.

 

Cheers,

Samcam:)

[slick132]

Hi Sam and welcome to CAG.

 

I've moved your post to the General Debt Issues forum where you should get good advice. I'm in no way qualified to comment on bankruptcy - I'll leave that to others.

 

Is it worth looking into claiming back bank charges on this account?

Can I actually do it, even though it's now closed?

If this a personal bank a/c, you can reclaim any penalties charges in the last 6 years. Barclays will want to set any refund against your debts to them. The closed status doesn't matter.

 

If it's a business a/c, claims are not currently being advised but we're working on this.

 

On my creditcard should I just start making token payments anyway and backdate the payments to when I stopped paying?

You'll have to put up with Mercers and their nasty tactics for a while longer. If they are unwilling to hold off for a while, you can send them a CCA request and see if BC have a valid Credit Agreement for the a/c.

 

If they don't, you can tell BC and Mercers to:-

 

* Stop demanding payments and harassing you.

* Stop adding any charges or interest to the a/c.

* Remove any negative markers for this a/c from your CRA records.

* Accept payments at a rate which you can afford.

 

Send off Letter N from here with the £1 fee. Write your name on the letter, don't sign it. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-bailiffs-advice/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

If you've suffered penalty charges on the CCard a/c, you can reclaim these to reduce the debt. If you have your statements, put the charges on to a Site spreadsheet to make your Schedule of Charges. Read the Reclaiming Charges guide at Link No1 in my signature below.

 

Re the constant calls - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/37006-harassment-telephone-response-letter.html

 

Come back with any queries.

[rory32]

Really we need to know if these accounts are business or personal accounts and regarding the credit cards when they were taken out.

 

Something that you can do regarding the phone calls is simply inform your telephone line provider that you are being harassed and they will change your number almost immediately FOC. Alternatively if you want to keep your number then post the lette that slick posted and keep a log of all calls. Some creditors were recently fined 50K for embarking on a similar approach so I don't see how the OFT wouldn't apply that to DCA's.

Refused token payment offer of £1 per month and refused to hold interest.

Barclaycard did agree to stop the PPI. I couldn't afford it and it didn't protect me anyway because I'm self employed.

You probably have a case for reclaiming the PPI due to being missold as it didn't cover you.

[samcam]

Hi Guys,

 

The accounts are personal, not business. I can't remember when I got the card - before 1996 at least, because I had it when I met my wife.

I only have statements going back to the tail end of 2003 though.

 

I've sent the letter about harassment and I've sent off for a copy of my CA. I assume if they send back my CA it will include details about the PPI?

 

I caught the tail end of something on Essex FM the other day. something about if you took your credit card out before April 2006 there's a way to get the balance wiped off. Anyone heard anything about that?

[rory32]

I assume if they send back my CA it will include details about the PPI?

 

Yes it will.

I caught the tail end of something on Essex FM the other day. something about if you took your credit card out before April 2006 there's a way to get the balance wiped off. Anyone heard anything about that?

I think you'll find that nearly all of us in the debt forums have heard of that. It's called section127(3) of The Consumer Credit Act 1974. Basically it equates to if the agreement does not contain all the prescribed terms or the agreement can not be produced then the debt is completely unenforceable even in a court of law.

[samcam]

or the agreement can not be produced then the debt is completely unenforceable even in a court of law.

 

So, if they can't produce the original document then I don't have to pay?

 

Wow! Lets hope their filing system sucks:D

[slick132]

It means they can't force you to repay them what you owe, leaving you able to repay the debt at a rate you can afford in your circumstances.

[samcam]

Well, that's no fun!

 

Do you think I should start making the token payments anyway, or wait to get my CCA back?

[bazaar]

Hi, Token payments would be fine for now, then if the CCA doesn't come back to you, you are not obliged to pay anything. Mercers are a bunch of two hats, they'll send you threatograms and call etc. As Rory mentioned earlier, send them a harrassment letter, Special Del. DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING JUST PRINT. It was indeed Barclaycard who were fined £50,000 for harrassment, they also admitted it was their debt collection people that caused it, but this was for silent calls I think.

Its up to you if you want to change your tel number, but I am of the opinion that send them the anti harrassment letter, then if they ignore it, report them to OFCOM, they'll investigate again and hopefully fine the beggers again, he he. Hit em where it hurts I say.

Good luck

[samcam]

Is it true that when thse companies sell the debts to local debt collectors they usually sell for around 7%?

[rory32]

Normally it's somewhere between 10 and 20%. It depends on the debts and how easy they think it will be to collect - it can be as little as 5%.

[samcam]

OK the deadline for returning my CCA was Friday and nothing has been sent yet.

 

What's the next step?

[samcam]

You probably have a case for reclaiming the PPI due to being missold as it didn't cover you.

 

Ah, but I took out the card many years before I became self employed. I think PPI was added automatically (a very long time ago, so can't remember)

[samcam]

Well, another debt has just raised it's head.

 

The Phone Book Directories Ltd.

 

We took out an online ad with them in January 2007. I thought the payments had been made, but in December of 2007 an invoice arrived for £509.17.

 

I called them about it and they said there had been a problem with the payments. They say they tried to call several times, but never got through (strange because I was in constant contact with them via email trying to get the ad wording correct, etc).

As our business was starting to go down I agreed with the guy on the phone that I would pay the debt as and when finances became available. He agreed and hung up.

 

Now, almost a year later, our business has gone, we are unemployed and we just got a letter from CCI Legal Services Ltd saying they are acting on behalf of The Phone Book Directories Ltd and the outstanding debt of £634 is now due immediately. If we don't pay by 13/10/08 it will immediately be taken to court.

 

I wrote back stating about the verbal agreement and explaining our current situation. They just resent the same letter demanding payment.

 

Any suggestions?

[slick132]

Hi Sam,

 

CCA request - Do nothing for the moment - just wait for their response to the letter. If you don't want to pay any more just now, then don't but Mercers, etc will probably be on to you sharpish.

 

If nothing in a week or so, there's a letter you can send setting out the position.

 

PPI - If you informed BC at the time you went self-employed, they could have stopped the PPI. If you didn't do this, do you have any other reason to object to the premiums. You could start a thread in the PPI forum for this aspect of your case.

[samcam]

Just thought of another question. The "12+2 days" always mentioned when requesting a copy of the CCA - is that 12+2 normal WORKING days (i.e. banks only ever say Mon-Fri are work days) or 12+2 days (i.e. inc Sat & Sun?

[samcam]

Hi Sam,

 

PPI - If you informed BC at the time you went self-employed, they could have stopped the PPI.

 

I called them and told them. I know because we moved at the same time so I had to give them my new address.

[slick132]

The "12+2 days" always mentioned when requesting a copy of the CCA - is that 12+2 normal WORKING days

I'm not sure but I'd leave it a few days extra anyway as most letters to BC and Mercers are a waste of good paper and ink.

 

I called them and told them. I know because we moved at the same time so I had to give them my new address.

With nothing in writing, your case will not be as strong but please put this into the PPI forum for better advice.

 

[samcam]

Well, another debt has just raised it's head.

 

The Phone Book Directories Ltd.

 

We took out an online ad with them in January 2007. I thought the payments had been made, but in December of 2007 an invoice arrived for £509.17.

 

I called them about it and they said there had been a problem with the payments. They say they tried to call several times, but never got through (strange because I was in constant contact with them via email trying to get the ad wording correct, etc).

As our business was starting to go down I agreed with the guy on the phone that I would pay the debt as and when finances became available. He agreed and hung up.

 

Now, almost a year later, our business has gone, we are unemployed and we just got a letter from CCI Legal Services Ltd saying they are acting on behalf of The Phone Book Directories Ltd and the outstanding debt of £634 is now due immediately. If we don't pay by 13/10/08 it will immediately be taken to court.

 

I wrote back stating about the verbal agreement and explaining our current situation. They just resent the same letter demanding payment.

 

Any suggestions?

 

 

OK. This CCI company have just contacted me again asking me to complete a Personal Expenditure Form, which is fair enough and I don't have a problem filling it in.

BUT they are also demanding copies of all my bank statements to prove/back up the form.

 

Are they allowed to ask for these?

[rory32]

The "12+2 days" always mentioned when requesting a copy of the CCA - is that 12+2 normal WORKING days

Monday to Friday excluding bank holidays. If you sent the CCA recorded then you can forget about the +2 days as these are for service via first class post. The 12 working days will run from the day after receipt as they are full working days.

BUT they are also demanding copies of all my bank statements to prove/back up the form.

 

Are they allowed to ask for these?

They can ask but you are under no obligation to supply them. They are not a court. They have no legal powers.

 

Personally I would not supply bank statements to them. A simple I&E form is all that is required.

[samcam]

Hi Rory,

 

Thanks for the reply. Just noticed they are also asking for my DOB and NI no.

 

Can't say I'm comfortable giving these out, as I don't know who these people really are.

 

What do you think?

[rory32]

There is absolutely no reason why they need this information. I would certainly not give it to them.

[samcam]

OK. It's been over a month since I requested a copy of my CCA and nothing so far. Is there a template letter that says "you haven't supplied it, so you can't enforce it" ??

 

Also, just a thought but, if there is no CCA, how can they add interest and charges to the debt? Can I not claim back all the interest they've add as well as the PPI and late payment charges?

 

Cheers

[slick132]

Hi Sam,

 

Carefully amend this letter to reflect your own case leaving out anything which doesn't apply:-

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

FORMAL COMPLAINT A/c no. xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On the **DATE** I wrote to you requesting a copy of the credit agreement and other information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79).

 

On **DATE** a member of your staff signed for delivery of my written request and I have an electronic proof of delivery showing their signature and the date.

 

To date you have failed to comply with these requests in any way, whether by confirmation of receipt of the request or by supplying the requested documents.

 

These documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

In my letter of the **DATE** I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under section 77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you enter into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

You have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’. You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

Despite my letter regarding ANY communication from your company, which stated that I require ALL communications in writing, your telephone calls continue.

 

This behaviour constitutes harassment; the letters stated quite clearly to you that I require ALL communications in writing for future use. Do not telephone me again - remove any telephone numbers you hold for me from your systems.

 

Your telephone calls are in breach of the Office of Fair Trading guidelines. If you continue with them after the receipt of this letter an official complaint, together with a log recording the times and frequency of the calls will be passed both to that office and to the Trading Standards office. For your information note that ALL telephone calls are taped.

 

This type of debt collection method is contrary to the ‘Administration of Justice Act 1970’ in that it is intended to cause alarm and distress to the recipient. Your methods will not be tolerated. A formal complaint, containing copies of all correspondence including yours, has now been submitted to the relevant authorities. This will be relevant to questions of your fitness to hold a licence under the Consumer Credit Act, whether or not it results in a prosecution.

 

Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

 

Communicate in writing and ONLY in writing, your telephone calls will NOT be answered.

 

HOWEVER, CALLS WILL TRIGGER COMPLAINTS TO THE REGULATORY BODIES.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

[slick132]

Thanks Mike but the credit for it should go, I believe, to CurlyBen.

Edited November 7, 2008 by slick132
typo