Recording telephone calls

[steven4064]

If you are being harassed by a DCA, it is iportant to gather evidence so that you can make them stop. Keeping detailed records is important but, even better, is to record their calls.

 

There are loads of different devices available for doing this and I have reviewed a selection. You can see the reviews here.

 

The best is trueCall which has the incredible feature that it records the entire call even if you press the record button in the middle of the call.

 

In the UK it is quite legal to record calls or your own private use without telling the caller you are doing it.

[ScabHunter]

Excellent.

 

Last month I made a post on BankFodder's thread asking why on Earth no-one had come up with a hardware or software product which would allow you to screen telephone calls.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/99376-telephone-harassment-action-plan-2.html#post1770093

 

Now, it is as if someone has read my post and produced exactly the product I was asking for. No, trueCall is not cheap, but if you add up what you save by not having to buy Choose To Refuse and Anonymous Call Reject, it will pay for itself in time in most cases. If you are a heavy telephone user, this is an absolutely essential piece of hardware.

 

Thanks Steven for bringing it to our attention.

 

SH

[steven4064]

It also has other options I have not tried - anonymous call reject (screens out all calls with withheld numbers), nighshield (stops silent calls at night 11pm - 7am), personal shield (allows friends to press '5' to get through, tells everyone else to get lost), screen all unrecognised callers (only allows callers on a list to get through, everyone else goes to answer machine)

[DCA-KING]

Hi Steven you say(In the UK it is quite legal to record calls or your own private use without telling the caller you are doing it.) do you have any more info or a link on this would love this in black and white

regards DK

[Bookworm]

Oftel - faqs

 

Can I record telephone conversations on my home phone?

 

Yes. The relevant law, RIPA, does not prohibit individuals from recording their own communications provided that the recording is for their own use. Recording or monitoring are only prohibited where some of the contents of the communication - which can be a phone conversation or an e-mail - are made available to a third party, ie someone who was neither the caller or sender nor the intended recipient of the original communication. For further information see the Home Office website where RIPA is posted.

 

Do I have to let people know that I intend to record their telephone conversations with me?

 

No, provided you are not intending to make the contents of the communication available to a third party. If you are you will need the consent of the person you are recording.

[ScabHunter]

That is the big problem.

 

You can record these calls but can you use them as evidence?

 

If a DCA writes something unlawful in a letter, unless that letter has "Without Prejudice" on it, it can be shown in court.

 

If these telephone calls are not admissible as evidence, then they are no use anyway.

 

Also, what about the people who are recording telephone calls and uploading them to YouTube? Are they not just storing up potential problems for themselves by making calls available to third parties without the caller's permission?

 

SH

[rory32]

If a DCA writes something unlawful in a letter, unless that letter has "Without Prejudice" on it, it can be shown in court.

 

Without prejudice does not automatically mean that letters can not be shown in court. The letter must fulfill certain criteria for the without prejudice rule to be applied.

 

No, provided you are not intending to make the contents of the communication available to a third party.

This then falls under the criteria of what exactly is meant by a third party.

 

The best is trueCall which has the incredible feature that it records the entire call even if you press the record button in the middle of the call.

 

While I'm sure it is great, most people who are being harassed over their debts don't have a spare 125 quid kicking about.

[steven4064]

I don't theink 'third parties' includes use as evidence.

 

The relevant laws are:

 

Telecommunications (Data Protection and Privacy) Regulations 1999

Telecommunications (Lawfu; Business Practice - INterception of Communications) Regulations 2000

Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000

Human Rights Act 1998

 

You can read them all on the INternet

[rory32]

I don't theink 'third parties' includes use as evidence.

 

I'm quite sure it doesn't Steven - that's why I raised the point. I am quite sure that what is meant by third parties usually falls under the scope of other people within the organisation and for training purposes or as a private individual distributing the material to others.

[steven4064]

While I'm sure it is great, most people who are being harassed over their debts don't have a spare 125 quid kicking about.

I agree although the record only version will be cheaper - I'm trying to find out how much

[rory32]

Good stuff

[Bookworm]

In any case, the best thing to do of you want to enter a phone recording as evidence is to actually make a transcript of it and have the tape/recording ready to play with you at hearing. IF the judge wants to hear it then he can ask for it and/or if the other side says the transcript is not accurate then the judge can ask for it to get played to check.

[fiftypence]

I believe most modern mobile phones have recorders built in so if you have a mobile and some bundled minutes available you could use those?

 

I spoke to a DCA recently on the phone and when I became a bit bolshy and started telling them how cr@p they were they mentioned they were recording the conversation and yet on the Today programme on radio 4 on Monday an insider was saying that outgoing calls from the DCA are not recorded but only incoming ones are. Worth noting that one for the future possibly.

[spamheed]

I agree although the record only version will be cheaper - I'm trying to find out how much

 

The "Recorder" requires a Truecall unit, it is an add-on to the TrueCall product and will not operate as a standalone product

 

 

At the moment there are two "recorder" versions available

a 70 hours version @ £29.99 incl vat

and a 140 hour version @ £34.99 incl vat

 

Basically it's an SD card which allows you to record the call. it can then be accessed via PC for editing purposes or burning to a CD etc, I believe you also get an SD/USB adaptor with the gadget

 

The website for TrueCall which gives a full product description and current pricing structure can be found here trueCall

Edited November 6, 2008 by spamheed

[steven4064]

SH

 

True call are producing a special version of the unit which is just a recorder and which incorporates the SD card currently advertised. This new version is not yet described on the trueCall website - it is effectively being produced in collaboration with CAG.

 

I should also say that the SD card supplied also contains the recording software and software for managing the recorded file on the PC.

 

Watch this space (well acyually the review in the CAG review section) for further news.

[ScabHunter]

This is a wonderful product and at last provides what we have all needed for many years.

 

I appreciate the argument that £125 is going to be hard to manage for people in debt trouble, but this is only the start.

 

Technology tends to fall in price, and this is so groundbreaking hopefully it will invite competitors to produce competing models and drive the price down.

 

Maybe one day we will see telephones made with this hardware and software already built in. I would have thought the demand would have been almost universal.

 

Not everyone in debt has no income. And not everyone in debt lives alone. There may be other people in the house who are affected by the constant telephone abuse and who would want to contribute.

 

As this technology spreads, people will use it to combat nuisance calls before they get into debt. Then, when the debt collectors start harassing, the technology will already be in place to deal with them.

 

Finally, if people know about this technology, and they can see the crisis coming before it happens, they can always spend the last of the entitlement on their credit card before it gets maxed out on this technology. If the enemy is going to illegally harass and abuse you, and get away with it because law enforcement is lax, then I see no moral argument against having them pay for your defence system.

 

SH

[Bookworm]

Finally, if people know about this technology, and they can see the crisis coming before it happens, they can always spend the last of the entitlement on their credit card before it gets maxed out on this technology. If the enemy is going to illegally harass and abuse you, and get away with it because law enforcement is lax, then I see no moral argument against having them pay for your defence system.SH

A clear case of liquidated damages after all.

[dpick]

This may be of interest to peps being pestered by phone calls I have an old modem still in my computer that had software with it that allowed me to screen incoming calls and if required record them. At the time I found this I was receiving up to 4 calls a day every day from MBNA's clones I had sent the harassment by phone letter and they even laughed at me when I mentioned this to one of their phone operatives. This was one of the first phone calls that I had been able to record, I sent a copy of this recording to Donna Phomfrey who was then head of legal services at MBNA. I never received any responce to this e-mail but it was very noticable that within one week all calls stopped.

 

I later found from data supplied under sar that she had passed this to a junier to stop calls and investigate and inform cusstomer. The calls stopped but I never have heard from anyone regarding an investigatopn into these calls, it would seem that MBNA employees don't even follow the instructions they are given by supeiriors.

 

So I would say that if you can record a phone call do so then send a copy of it to the company involved I believe that actual proof that you are recording their calls works wonders.

 

dpick

[Splenius]

Hi,

 

I am thinking of buying an ultradisk voice recorder UltraDisk™ Digital Voice Recorders & Dictaphones / MP3 Manufacture Manchester. They cost around £30.

 

Has anyone any experience of these? What's the sound quality like? (You can use them either to record a telephone coversation - they come with a phone connector - or you can record a face to face conversation)

 

[by the way, the Maplin call recording adapter suggested by steven4064 works only for tape recorders and not for PCs. I bought one and tried it with several PCs without success. The maplin connector is a Retell 0156 - what you actually need is a Retell 0157 if you want to make a connection to a PC. The Retell 0157 is available here: Retell 157 Handset Connector

 

I did have a good whinge when returning the connector to Maplin since they had several products for tape recorders and nothing for a PC. ["Who has a tape recorder these days - I guess I might have one in the corner of the attic" ]

[steven4064]

Thanks for the info Splenius

 

 

The ultradisk seems to be the same as the one I have labelled 'unbranded' in my review in the review section. I will check and update the review later.

 

I would wait and see how much the trueCall recorder is (we should know in a couple of days) as that is so much better.

[fuzzybobble]

I use a little device that connects to the phone socket and the other end connects to the microphone input on either my computer or micro cassette recorder. (Search for "call recorder" on Amazon or Ebay. You can pick one up for about £12.)

Recently I got a digital recorder that has a usb port on it. I use

it for my Youtube DCA antics.

 

It's also handy if your recorder has voice activated recording, ie. only records when it picks up voices or sounds. I leave mine set up and it automatically records as soon as the phone rings or you make an outgoing call. If I get a good DCA one I transfer it to my PC via USB and save it as an mp3 file.

[Pipster2797]

Why don't people just use skype? and then a free recorder such as

 

Free MX Skype Recorder

 

Give the DCA or creditor the number for skype and then if your not on the computer it still makes a log of the calls they make and has voicemail. Plus if you are on the computer then record the call. Plus for £2.25 you get unlimited calls to landlines too. If the DCA or creditor has an 0845 number then just go to SAYNOTO0870.COM - Non-Geographical Alternative Telephone Numbers and get an alternative number for that particular DCA or Creditor.

 

You do need speakers on your pc to hear the call and a mic to make a call though

[silverfox1961]

Here's another question,

If I were to write to my DCA's and state in a letter that

 

 

"Please be aware that I record all incoming and out going telephone calls. By your act of dialling my telephone number OR accepting my call you are giving me permission to record those calls and for me to use those recordings as I see fit"

 

Does anyone think I could get away with that?

 

fox

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Pipster2797!

 

Why don't people just use skype? and then a free recorder such as...Free MX Skype Recorder.

 

I think that is a good idea if your own situation allows it.

 

The problem for many, myself included, is Land Line Telephone Numbers are often used for many other purposes. For example, Business.

 

Once a CRA, banker or DCA has your number, you can't go back and delete their record of it. Likewise, changing over to Skype or an IP based Telephone System is not practical for some people, as a lot of time and effort may already have been invested in the Land Line Number.

 

I regret that I can't just change my numbers, and don't see why the Debt Industry should be allowed to get away with forcing me to do so.

 

This is why I am logging every single Harassment Call, and have a total now of over 2,000 Calls all Logged by Time/Date and Calling Line Identity (CLI) if it is displayed when they Call. Then, as each banker or DCA pops up to have a toot at me in Court, their long track record of Harassment is being produced and they really don't like it. They assume nobody Logs their activities in such detail, and think when they elect to push an issue to Court, that past Telephone Harassment History will be dead and buried, thinking few Log such details.

 

Hello Silverfox1961!

 

If I were to write to my DCA's and state in a letter that

 

"Please be aware that I record all incoming and out going telephone calls. By your act of dialling my telephone number OR accepting my call you are giving me permission to record those calls and for me to use those recordings as I see fit"

 

Does anyone think I could get away with that?

 

I'd go back to what Bookworm has pointed out in Post #12, i.e. you just Record and Save anything you like, and if you need to use this, write out a Paper Transcript of the Call/Message.

 

Then have the Recording available if a Judge wants to hear the actual Recording.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited November 20, 2008 by banker_rhymes_with
Typo

[Splenius]

Why don't people just use skype?

 

I have used similar VOIP systems before and they were very uncomfortable to use with speakers and microphone. Were it possible to get a comfortable cordless headset that included a microphone, I would consider using skype.

 

Do you know if the "Freetalk wireless headset" sold by skype is any good?

 

The other problem with skype is the cost - it isn't cheap if you make only a few calls every month.