Tenon recovery= very nasty!

[Under Siege]

This is a copy of the letter I have recieved this morning 13/09/2007

It is regarding a debt to Yell ltd for my business

 

 

If the link isnt working the text is here -

 

Date 12 September 2007

 

PAYMENT DEMAND

Re: Yell Ltd - Outstanding Debt [£900+]

 

Dear Mr xxxxxxx,

 

I write to confirm that the above account has been passed to the Tenon Recovery Debt Management Department to act on behalf of Yell Ltd with regard to the outstanding debt.

 

As licensed Insolvency Practitioners, authorised by the Department of Trade & Industry and the institute of Chartered Accountants England & Wales, you are hereby notified that should your payment or response not be received by this office within 3 days of the date of this letter, proceedings pursuant to section 268 of the Insolvency Act 1986 will be enforced. This will include the issue and service of a statement of claim (N1 form) and you may also incur additional administration costs and interest on this debt under the Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998.

 

Failure to contact us within the specified time will result in you being liable for the additional costs and the commencement of immediate legal action against you.

 

Yours sincerely

 

[Photocopy of some geezers signature]

 

Robert J Beat

Director of Insolvency.

 

 

The debt is for just over £900 (I remember reading somewhere that if the debt is for under £750 they cannot persue this action. Is that true?)

 

 

I am not trying to get out of paying this debt. I acknowledge that I owe it and I would like to come to some sort of agreement with them.

 

 

I would just like a little bit of advice on how to proceed.

 

Many thanks

[k65]

Date 12 September 2007

 

PAYMENT DEMAND

Re: Yell Ltd - Outstanding Debt [£900+]

 

Dear Mr xxxxxxx,

 

I write to confirm that the above account has been passed to the Tenon Recovery Debt Management Department to act on behalf of Yell Ltd with regard to the outstanding debt.

 

As licensed Insolvency Practitioners, authorised by the Department of Trade & Industry and the institute of Chartered Accountants England & Wales, you are hereby notified that should your payment or response not be received by this office within 3 days of the date of this letter, proceedings pursuant to section 268 of the Insolvency Act 1986 will be enforced. This will include the issue and service of a statement of claim (N1 form) and you may also incur additional administration costs and interest on this debt under the Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998.

 

Failure to contact us within the specified time will result in you being liable for the additional costs and the commencement of immediate legal action against you.

 

Yours sincerely

 

[Photocopy of some geezers signature]

 

Robert J Beat

Director of Insolvency.

 

 

The debt is for just over £900 (I remember reading somewhere that if the debt is for under £750 they cannot persue this action. Is that true?)

 

 

I am not trying to get out of paying this debt. I acknowledge that I owe it and I would like to come to some sort of agreement with them.

 

 

I would just like a little bit of advice on how to proceed.

 

Many thanks

 

in the first instance i would make contact with them within the time limit

asking for details of this debt including statements, this will buy you some time.

when they reply you can then submit your offer of repayment, make sure it is an amount you can comfortably afford.

dont telephone them

dont pay more than you can afford

[GuidoT]

They can commence legal proceedings for any sum.

 

The £750 figure you may have in your head is the minimum sum you can issue a statutory demand for (which the pre-cursor to bankruptcy), see here for further explanation:

Statutory Demand from Debt Questions

 

As K65 says I am sure you will be able to work out an arrangement with them, but be aware that if they do commence proceedings (N1) you will then additionally become liable for court fees (£80) and interest.

 

If they do commence (N1) you can admit the debt and request that payment is made in stages.

[Under Siege]

I do believe that they have added charges to the amount.

So should I write today asking for full details of the debt / statement (are there any templates available?)

And when they reply I should write back making an offer of repayment?

 

Thank you very much for the advice.

[NitrousOxide]

I didn't think an N1 was used for bankruptcy?

[ScarletPimpernel]

This is for a commercial debt, which is different to a personal debt - although it would be useful to know if the business is operated as a sole trader, partnership or limited company.

 

S.268 of the Insolvency Act 1986 relates to statutory demands due to 'inabilty to pay'. My reading of the letter is that, in true DCA style they speak with forked tongue, and are suggesting that if payment is not immediately forthcoming they will issue N1, and if they get judgment and it isn't satisfied, then they will (might) go for winding-up or bankruptcy. Sledgehammer/nut interface, really.

 

That the DCA is a licensed IP is neither here nor there; anyone can issue a stat demand or an N1. It's all part of the scare tactics, just like some DCAs using solicitors' letterheads to 'impress'.

 

It may be worth noting that Yell have a reputation for not getting things right, so check to ensure that any advertising you placed is exactly as it should be, and that they have complied fully with every aspect of the contract. If all is in order, then write and make an offer to repay - as it's a commercial debt I would expect them to want it in fairly large chunks.

 

 

Incidentally, you could always avail yourself of another of Tenon's services: Tenon debt solutions / Individual Voluntary Agreements (IVAs) and Trust Deeds (Scotland) - avoid bankruptcy and get debt help and advice. Call our free debt helpline today. - and get them to sort themselves out !

[babybear39]

Incidentally, you could always avail yourself of another of Tenon's services: Tenon debt solutions / Individual Voluntary Agreements (IVAs) and Trust Deeds (Scotland) - avoid bankruptcy and get debt help and advice. Call our free debt helpline today. - and get them to sort themselves out !

 

ROFPMSL...

 

I love it SP

 

Good luck and best wishes Under Seige

[Under Siege]

I might just do that ScarletPimpernel

I am a sole trader by the way!

I need to get a letter off to them by recorded delivery tomorrow morning, excuse my ignorance but should it be along the lines of a S.A.R ?

 

If they did decide to try and make me bankrupt, could I pay them in full before it went to court. I could get hold of the money if I had to, but I'm just trying to juggle my debts and a monthly plan would be much easier.

[k65]

I do believe that they have added charges to the amount.

So should I write today asking for full details of the debt / statement (are there any templates available?)

And when they reply I should write back making an offer of repayment?

 

Thank you very much for the advice.

 

i would not offer any payment at this stage get the information first then if there is no huge charges added and you are happy the sum they are claiming is correct then write offering a payment plan

[babybear39]

You can request a statement of account free of charge from the DCA Under Seige

[k65]

heres the a to z http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/consumer-forums-website-questions/53182-cant-find-what-youre.html

[Under Siege]

I love this site!!

Thanks again guys

[k65]

I might just do that ScarletPimpernel

I am a sole trader by the way!

I need to get a letter off to them by recorded delivery tomorrow morning, excuse my ignorance but should it be along the lines of a S.A.R ?

 

If they did decide to try and make me bankrupt, could I pay them in full before it went to court. I could get hold of the money if I had to, but I'm just trying to juggle my debts and a monthly plan would be much easier.

 

if they do lodge a claim at court (which i doubt at this stage) you will recieve a form from the court, you have to fill in the boxes and you can then dispute, admit you owe the money and pay all or admit you owe the money and ask for time to pay.

[Under Siege]

So do I just write words to the effect of -

 

Dear Sir,

Could you please provide me with a statement of account for account number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx as I dispute the amount you are claiming.

Then when I get a response I will make them an offer of monthly payments

[babybear39]

That should be fine Send it recorded or better special delivery if you can

[Pudseyowl]

oops wrong thread

[k65]

I would go with something like. i do not acknowledge any debt to your company. please send, as a matter of urgency, all details including, but not limited to statements and a complete breakdown of charges to date.

on reciept of your paperwork and i have proof this debt is mine, i will contact you again with regards to repayment of this debt

[Under Siege]

but the letter states that they are acting on behalf of yell

[babybear39]

As you're not disputing the debt and you just want a statement of account, the best thing is to write recorded to ask.

[Under Siege]

Thanks again babybear & k65

[Under Siege]

Ok.

 

They have totally ignored my request for a statement and sent me a default notice giving 3 days to respond!

 

Im sure the 3 day thing is wrong, dont they have to give you 7 days?

 

The notice itself looks very unofficial on plain crappy paper! looks a bit amateurish to me.

[k65]

DEBT COLLECTION - UNFAIR BUSINESS

PRACTICES

Communication

2.1

It is unfair to communicate, in whatever form, with consumers in an unclear,

inaccurate or misleading manner.

2.2

Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. use of official looking documents intended or likely to mislead debtors as to

their status e.g. documents made to resemble court summonses

b. leaving out or presenting information in such a way that it creates a

false or misleading impression or exploits debtors' lack of knowledge

c. those contacting debtors not making clear who they are, who they work

for and what their role is

d. unnecessary and unhelpful use of legal and technical language

e. failing to provide debtors or creditors with information on status of

debts e.g. not providing requested balance statements.

False representation of authority and/or legal position

2.3

Those contacting debtors must not be deceitful by misrepresenting their

authority and/or the correct legal position.

2.4

Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. falsely claiming or implying they are bailiffs or, in Scotland, sheriffs

officers or messengers- in- arms

b. falsely stating that bailiffs or, in Scotland, sheriffs officers or

messengers- in- arms are going to be sent

c. falsely claiming a right of entry

d. misrepresenting status by naming businesses, premises or web-sites or

using a logo to falsely imply government or other public body status or

backing.

Page 8

4

Debt collection guidance

November 2002

e. misleading debtors into believing they are legally liable to pay collection

charges when this is not the case e.g. when there is no contractual

provision for charging in the credit agreement

f. falsely implying or stating that civil proceedings will be taken, that civil

action has been started or that a court judgment has already been obtained

g. falsely implying or stating that debtor’s goods will be seized

h. falsely implying or stating that failure to pay a debt is a criminal offence

or that criminal proceedings will be brought

i. referring to bankruptcy proceedings where there is little chance that such

action will be pursued or where balances are too low to qualify for such

proceedings

j. pursuing third parties, e.g. relatives of deceased debtors when they are not

liable.

Physical/psychological harassment

2.5

Putting undue pressure on debtors or third parties, e.g. relatives, is considered

to be oppressive

Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. contacting debtors at unreasonable times and at unreasonable intervals.

Comments are invited on whether OFT should specify what we consider to

be reasonable. If so please give us your views on what constitutes

reasonable times and intervals

b. pressurising debtors to sell property or to raise funds by further

borrowing

c. pressurising debtors by using more than one debt collection business,

either one after another or at the same time, resulting in repetitive and/or

frequent contact by different parties

d. pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments, or

to increase payments when they are unable to do so

Page 9

Office of Fair Trading 5

e. making threatening statements or gestures which suggest harm to

debtors

f. disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and

continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

g. disclosing debt details to third parties, (especially neighbours relatives or

employers), unless legally entitled to do so

h. acting in a way likely to be publicly embarrassing to the debtor either

deliberately or through lack of care e.g. sending open correspondence to

a shared post box.

Deceptive and/or unfair methods

2.6

Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair.

2.1

Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. contacting people speculatively by e.g. addressing correspondence 'to the

occupier' when there is doubt as to whether they are the debtor in question

b. obtaining details under false pretences e.g. leaving a note at a

suspected debtor’s home telling them to phone to arrange a suitable

time and date for delivery of a package. When they call, they are asked

to confirm their personal details and are then sent payment demands for

a debt

c. refusing to deal with appointed third parties, such as Citizens Advice

Bureaux

d. contacting debtors directly and bypassing their known appointed

representatives e.g. in an effort to deal with someone in a weaker position

e. failing to refer on reasonable offers to pay by instalments

f. not passing on money collected within a reasonable time and failing to keep

and provide details of payments made.

Comments are invited on whether OFT should specify what we consider

to be reasonable. If so please give us your views on what would

constitute a reasonable time

g. where a debt has been bought, failing to establish the details of the debt

history resulting in debtors sometimes being wrongly pursued.

Page 10

6

Debt collection guidance

November 2002

Statute-barred debts

2.7

The Limitation Act 1980, which applies in England and Wales, sets out time

limits for bringing various kinds of legal action. These are known as limitation

periods. The limitation period for debts, i.e. the point at which they become

statute barred, is 6 years from when the debtor defaulted on or later

acknowledged the debt. If debtors are aware of their legal rights then in practice

the debt is unenforceable as they can apply to have the claim struck out.

Different legislation applies in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

2.8

We invite your views on the following:

a. Is it unfair or improper to pursue such debts? For example, what if no

contact with the debtor has been attempted for several years or the debtor

has frustrated all attempts to make contact?

b. Should the processes involved in collecting such debts differ from the

normal processes (e.g. more time/leeway provided to debtors)? If so, in

what way?

c. Do you have any views on the fairness of pursuing debts which although not

statute-barred have not been pursued or chased for a considerable time e.g.

should they not be pursued if no contact has been made with the debtor for

say a couple of years?

d. Do you have any experience of this issue? If so please provide us with a

summary of your experiences.

Charging for debt collection

2.9

We have stated in the past that we consider it to be an unfair business practice

to charge for debt collection when there is no contractual provision to do so.

2.10 In order to determine our future position on this issue we invite your views on

the following:-

a. Under what circumstances, if any, is it fair to charge debtors for collection

of debts?

b. Do you have any experience of this issue? If so please provide us with a

summary of your experiences and/or any examples you may have.

Page 11

Office of Fair Trading 7

Debt collection visits

2.11 Is it unfair or improper for a debt collector to visit a debtor e.g. at their work or

home? What if the debtor refuses to answer written correspondence or answer

phone calls? Would debtors find it beneficial to talk to someone about their

situation face to face or are they more likely to be embarrassed or intimidated?

2.12 We invite your views on the following:-

a. Under what circumstances, if any, is it fair to pay personal visits to debtors?

b. If visits are appropriate, what safeguards must be in place?

c. Do you have any experience of this issue? If so please provide us with a

summary of your experiences and/or any examples you may have.

Page 12

8

Debt collection guidance

November 2002

Debt collection guidance for consumer credit licence holders and applicants

 

hell i could make the whole thing red

the whole thing here

[ScarletPimpernel]

Just a note of caution. This thread is about a commercial debt - I'm not convinced that the OFT guidance applies other than to consumer debt, even in the case of sole traders.

[Under Siege]

But on the default notice tenon are quoting the consumer credit act

[k65]

Just a note of caution. This thread is about a commercial debt - I'm not convinced that the OFT guidance applies other than to consumer debt, even in the case of sole traders.

 

irrespective of the type of debt the dca have regulations they must follow the above regulation (from the oft) is what the dca must follow