Nationwide taking me to court.HELP.

[out of cash]

HI johndeevoy,

 

many thanks for your advice will let all know on here to morrow evening how this case went this is a big one for me as they are now going for summary judgement for a 2nd attempt;) lets hope they are real unlucky with this and that the judge will up hold the ruling of the house of lords?

 

regards

occ

[johndeevoy]

Who do the creditors have in Court to give evidence? A representative of the company? It would need to be a rep of the company that worked there in 1997 and can state clearly to the Court that the 2nd document with the prescribed terms WAS on the back of the agreements at that time and show the Court an original of such a document.

 

Make the rep take the stand and ask if they worked there in 1997. If they say NO then you can put it to the Court that the Applicant is making assumptions about the original agreement and such assumptions cannot be submitted as evidence to the Court.

 

Have you questioned the company rep at all in any of the previous hearings?

[FANTASY CHARGES]

Strange that the courts find it hard to accept, when this their normal modus operandi, and has been for some time, i mean its not like its something new.

 

the FBI ARE CURRENTLY INVESIGATING FREDDIE MAC & fANNIE MAY & WITH LEHMANN BROS IN THE usa (ALONG WITH OTHERS)

 

and we know whatever happens in the Usa eventually happens in the UK

 

:-):-):-)

[creditcardmug]

the FBI ARE CURRENTLY INVESIGATING FREDDIE MAC & fANNIE MAY & WITH LEHMANN BROS IN THE usa (ALONG WITH OTHERS)

 

and we know whatever happens in the Usa eventually happens in the UK

 

:-):-):-)

 

:D

[out of cash]

hi all,

 

had a long 3 hr session in court claiments application struck out along with mine on to the 4th hearing in about 6 wks time the 4 corners argument dosent wash with the judge just kept saying the agreement is 2 pages it could be nine this is all 1 DOCUMENT so the prescribed terms are within the 4 corners on page 2 i think this is a real mental argument but there we go all comments welcome or any advice most appreciated.

 

regards to all

ooc

[johndeevoy]

OOC, you have to concede to what the Judge is saying, YES, an agreement can be more than 1 page long, that is not what is in dispute. The dispute is that there is no evidence to suggest that the 2nd page is in any way related to the "agreement" that you signed.

 

In order to prove this, the onus is on the creditor to prove that the prescribed terms were contained within the original agreement document. To do this they must produce an original.

[johndeevoy]

Why dont you make and print off some terms and conditions of your own, make them ridiculous if you like, and bring them to Court and try to alledge that they were part of the original agreement

 

Obviously, do this to get it into the thick Judges head that photocopies are not acceptable when legislation and case-law dictate that important terms must be contained within an agreement and are not to be found in any other document (from the Wilson case).

 

I believe CPR 16 7.3 states that originals of any contract or agreement must be produced to the Court but don't quote me on this as I don't know much about the English CPR.

Edited September 26, 2008 by johndeevoy

[out of cash]

hi johndeevoy,

 

many thanks for comments made me really laugh i totally see what you are getting at but this judges logic is some what different from mine he even disputed a para taken from goode consumer law and practice which says even if the terms are ref to it must be crystal clear where these terms can be found.it says ive read and undestood these terms & obviously i argued but not these ones:) its going to be a real nightmare for me with this i will now insist they produce the original doc to court at the 4th hearing ive also been asked to ammend my defence as i made a serious error with admittance of recieving a default notice dont really know what one looks like so i obviously got somewhat confused with this:rolleyes: just so happens they are having difficulty finding this doc now and cancellation rights/notices etc.

 

regards

 

ooc

[out of cash]

hi all, these are terms and conditions from 1997 the creditor will be relying upon at the 4th hearing any help and advice most appreciated.

 

regards

 

ooc

Edited November 16, 2008 by out of cash

[out of cash]

hi all,

 

hopefully this image of my terms and conditions which also has within the page prescibed terms will be legible this time any comments most welcome cred is relying upon these.ooc

Edited November 16, 2008 by out of cash

[willow1261]

can you get hold of an enforceable agreement and show it to the judge.? if he sees one in black and white in front of him which is correct it may help him to come to the correct decision!! give him the tools to come to the decision you want. also you could remind him that any witness statement has to be signed on every page, it is not enough to be signed once at the end of a five page document. that would not be admissable in court. each page on a witness statement is its own signature document! although this has no legal ground within your case a judge would understand the relevance of this and could apply it to your arguement. this just might sway his way of thinking. Anything is worth a try. a different approach maybe?

 

willow

[out of cash]

hi all,

 

could someone kindly point me in the direction as to where the prescribed terms should be located exactly in the agreement before sigs or after sigs? i need to prove this to a judge and the 4 corners mental argument:)

 

like are these in the document or the agreement he seems to refer that page 1 is the agreement on one day and on another the document my thick logic says that the 2 pages are the document and the sig page the agreement do i have any takers on this one:D

 

regards to all

 

out of cash

[pt2537]

OOC,

 

it wholly depends upon when the agreement was entered into

 

from 31st May 2005 agreements must be as laid out in Regulation 2 Consumer Credit Agreements Regulations 1983

 

so the signature MUST be the last thing on the document and the prescribed terms must be before the sig

 

i have sent you a copy of Goode , well the relevent pages anyway so you have all what you need.

 

if you need the regulations you can find the regs in the statute library at the top of the main forum,

[out of cash]

hi pt2537,

 

many thanks for your comments you may be interested to know i used your extract from goode last week in court and this judges logic defies belief the part which says terms have tobe expressly ref to the line i have read your conditions in his starship world means exactly that but not in mine as i told him i produced 10 words which cover the meaning of expressly still wouldnt have it i am tearing my hair out whats left of it and awaite the next hearing i really appreciated you sending the goode stuff because i am still going to use this when we go to trial?

 

regards

 

out of cash

[pt2537]

The judge is wrong

 

there is a clear distinction within goode and more importantly within the act itself

 

if it was compliance with the act to merely refer to the terms and conditions then there would be no need for section 61(1) (a) which incidently if it is not complied with the agreement is rendered improperly executed and only enforceable by court order save for the restrictions within section 127

 

now look at the wording of S127 (3)

 

NO WHERE within that pasrt does it say embody instead it clearly requires the agreement contains the prescribed terms, this judge is in clear error and i fear that you will need to look to an appeal on this

[out of cash]

Hi pt2537,

 

many thanks for all your help with this i totally agree with you you just wouldn't believe the crap i am going through with this its getting a bit comical with this judge and the 4 corners argument, his definition of certain words within goode etc:D

 

regards

 

ooc

[out of cash]

Hi pt2537,

 

forgot to say the cca was in 1999

 

regards OOC

[gronzibabe]

Hi all I am new to the forum...just wanted to reply to Out Of Cash req.

 

The address is is K.P.R Debt Collection, PO Box 518, Northhampton, NNS 6UQ

 

Phone :- 0845 600 3507 fax:- 01604 853 506...Hope this helps..gronzibabe:)

[gronzibabe]

Hi all I am new to the forum...just wanted to reply to Out Of Cash req.

 

The address is is K.P.R Debt Collection, PO Box 518, Northhampton, NNS 6UQ

 

Phone :- 0845 600 3507 fax:- 01604 853 506...Hope this helps..gronzibabe:)

[1littleduck]

Hi outofcash, have you any update's on your case, as the N/W are also taking me to court

[out of cash]

Hi all,

 

can anyone tell me what happens when a judge gives a court order for a creditor to supply a filing fee and a pre trial check list and the creditor fails to comply.to top the lot judge says if they dont she will strike case out without further warning then just lets them carry on to a full trial.

 

any advice/help most welcome

 

regards

 

out of cash

[Josie8]

hows it going with this?

[Josie8]

Hi

 

Hows this case going?

[out of cash]

hi josie8,

 

have decided to go BR as i have had a gut full after 2 years of dealing with creds and judges who are def biased in my cases.health had started to suffer big time over the last 3 months also caused me to lose my job.

 

many thanks for your interest.

 

OOC

[paulwlton]

hi josie8,

 

have decided to go BR as i have had a gut full after 2 years of dealing with creds and judges who are def biased in my cases.health had started to suffer big time over the last 3 months also caused me to lose my job.

 

many thanks for your interest.

 

OOC

 

I sympathise with you, it can be hard work trying to convince a DJ to except your views and thus prove your case. I have posted my thoughts and opinions in the last couple of days on the consumer credit agreement thread on how difficult it may be to prove such a case when there appears to be several arguments which could be used to discredit ones claim/defence.

 

Regards Paul