"Intentionally Homeless" ?????

[Guest littlesally]

The council have told my daughter that they are having an investigation in to her circumstances and if they find that she has "intentionally made herself homeless" then they will give her 28 days in this hostel then they have fulfilled their obligation to her.

After that she has to move out.

She has a seven year old daughter.

 

Anyone wanting the background to this .......

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/landlords-tenants/106589-crack-house-closure.html

 

The prosecution used the fact that the council would put her in tempory accommodation to push for closure rather than restrictions. The magistrate used this fact in the summing up.

 

There is no way we can raise the £1300 minimum needed for private.

 

Anyone know what she can do?

Anyone know what the law is on council obligation?

 

sally x

[Joa]

Hi there Sally; please look at the following post: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/landlords-tenants/94427-revised-homelessness-code-guidance.html#post869601

The link will take you to current homelessness policy and Chapter 11 talk about "intentional homelessness"

Nevertheless, your daughter may need help from experienced housing adviser. Find one through Shelter: Advice services directory

 

Good luck!

[Guest littlesally]

Just to up date this in case anyone else finds themselves or someone they know in this situation.

 

The answer is yes this is right. If you make yourself homeless the council will only pay for 28 days (sometimes less!!) from the date of the end of their investigation.

As it is a closure then it is classed as intentional.

After that, if you can't afford the deposit etc for a private rented flat or have family or friends that will put you up, then it is the streets!! And any children you have will be taken in to care!!

This is inspite of the council talking to the HA and there only being one complaint to them about my daughter in the past year.

They also spoke to the community cop who started all this, which seems a little unfair as she has made a complaint about his mediating methods (apparently this was what he had been tasked to do but never spoke to her!) which have contributed to this situation.

 

Sally x

[rombo 69]

Hi,

 

The intentionality "loop" makes me so mad. When making a homeless application there are five hoops which a client must satisfy in order to be owed a duty by the local authority (la) the last being intenitonality. What the housing advisor has to look at is

 

"did you deliberately do or fail to do something as a consequence of which you have lost accommodation which was avaialble and reasonable for you to continue to ocuupy"

 

The difficulty is you have unqualified/unexperienced people dealing with these section 193 decisions and think they can just state anybody is intenitlally homeless, when in fact it deliberatlousness can be quite difficult to prove. The LA has 31 working days to make their decision and the burden is on them to prove intentionality. legally as your daughter is in priority need then they have to provide her with SUITABLE temporary accommodation. If they do find her intenitonal and you want some help appealing against the decision let me have look a the discharge letter.

 

Credentials-- housing law solicitor

[sillygirl1]

The 'intentionally homeless' should apply to all illegal immigrants who come into this country by that definition.... they have left a home somewhere else, travelled through various safe countries (ie France and Germany in many cases) to get to the UK and then expect housing and funds to be available.

 

I wish I had some money to give towards your daughter's deposit for a new place, by paying extortionate bailiff fees for a council tax fee I then made myself 'intentionally homeless' by not paying my mortgage... I know of a case where a 19 years old girl went to the council because she didn't want to babysit for her three younger step brothers and got a 2 bedroomed flat.

 

Have you tried to get a re-hearing at the court as obviously the Judge wasn't clued up on the housing laws locally and needs to be informed pronto.

 

Please PM me if you want to - this sort of thing makes my blood boil.

[gizmo111]

Sally,

 

I would do as suggested above and contact Shelter they are excellent.

 

With regrds the deposit, it is possible that your daughter may be eligible for a community care grant, to pay the deposit - beware that there are criteria hoops to jump here as well, but the crucial one would be that it is part of a planned resettlement progamme - the court case etc should back this up. The next big problem would be finding a landlord who accepts housing benefit, and a place to rent that will be covered 100% by HB. Ask if the council oeprate a deposit bond scheme and hasa list of landlords who house people on benefits.

After a year or so if her circumstances change (eg she gets notice to quit at end of tenancy) she can represent at housing as in priority need, and will no longer be intentionally homeless as she will have superceded that decision by successfully maintaining a tenenacy. So she is not stuck in the private sector for ever.

 

Good Luck, and fingers crosssed the decision hasn't actually been made yet.

[Guest littlesally]

Thank you!

They did find her intentionally homeless.

 

I will get the letter from her over the next few days,

 

Sally x

[gizmo111]

In which case she won't have 28 days to stay where she is they will prob give her up to 7.

[Guest littlesally]

Thank you again.

She is going to shelter next week.

 

Luckily my wonderful mother has stepped in and given her £1000 and the social will loan her the rest. But thank you for your kind thoughts SG ..

 

We are appealing the closure that started this all off and made a complaint to the Independant Police Complaints Commission.

 

Sally xx

[gizmo111]

So hoefully she will be able to find somewher - I would still try and get the deposit on the CCGrant, she could give it back to your mum if she is successful.

[Guest littlesally]

Sorry Gizmo, my computer is really playing up (off/on/off/on,,,,) and I miss-read your post. Can she get deposit as a grant rather than a loan?

 

She has a new place, hopefully moves in on the 20th

 

Sally x

[gizmo111]

Yes if she is eligible the a Community Care Grant is not repayable.

[Guest littlesally]

Daughter getting seriously worried as the social security have said no to a loan and the grant!!

She only owes them about £400 so I can't see why they've said no. They said in their letter that there would not be adverse hardship without the money!

As she and her daughter will be street homeless on the 1/10/07 without it I don't understand.

She has appealed and enclosed letter's from the council and social services.

 

I looked up social services on the internet and found that they can help in these circumstances but they seem very reluctant to do so. When she asks them about it her social worker just pulls a face and says "mmmmm" and changes the subject.

Are they waiting until she is actually on the street or have I misread what was on the internet?

As she has put £200 holding fee on a flat, she is in danger of losing that if the appeal falls through.

Surely it is cheaper to give/loan her about £400 than pay for her daughter to live with foster parents?

 

Does anyone work at social services and able to help with this?

 

Sally x

[gizmo111]

I would get on to welfare rights to see about an appeal.

Social services can help with the deposit but they are not obliged to so it would be up to the individual team manager.

You say your daughter has a SW - is this for her or her daughter, and if so what legislation is she practising under ie is your grandaughter on the CP register or being seen as a Child In Need?

[Guest littlesally]

There are two social workers. One for her, one for her daughter.

She says that her social worker is a lot more help. She has said she is willing to talk to the social security about the situation.

Her daughters social worker doesn't say much and seems very unconcerned about everything! The police contacted the SS after the raid around the end of June and he has only just come to see her. He has made no further appointment, nor said there will be one.

Child protection has not been mentoned so I would guess she is a child in need.

 

Is there anything she needs to do to persuade the team manager she genuinely needs help with the deposit?

 

Sally x

[gizmo111]

I would think that she has more chance of getting from the childcare SW, than her own. Basically she needs to letthem know the situation and ask for help. Does the council do a deposit bond scheme? Did she borrow this off your mum in the end.

[Guest littlesally]

My mum lent her £1000, the council will only lend her £250 because she "made herself homeless" (automatic when a closure is involved. We are appealing but this will take time. They can lend up to £600)

 

Rent in advance, deposit, and admin fee's plus mean she needs £1600.

All she needs is £350!

 

The social worker knows the exact situation but just umm's and arr's then changes the subject.

Should she ask to see/speak to the team manager?

 

Sally x

[Guest littlesally]

She just rang her daughter's social worker and said she knew they could help in desperate situations and hers is desperate!

He said they can only lend small amounts i.e £40.

That is not the way I read it on the internet.

It looks like this is a dead end as if they are denying being able to - and lets face it her's is a desperate situation - I can't see what else she can say.

 

Sally x

[gizmo111]

As she is paying rent in advance - she will get that back when housing benefit pays her - is there anyone who could stretch that bit extra for the 6 weeks or so until she gets the backpay.

 

I would ask to speak to the TM as ultimately she will have a child at risk in her area if suitable housing is not secured, and then she will have to do something.

[Guest littlesally]

Hi Gizmo,

Spoke to TM, she said they definitely do not lend/give money to help out - maybe £40 or so but that's it.

I pointed out that the money they will be paying out for foster parents will far exceed the amount she is asking to borrow but she still said that while she understands they don't do that.

Unbelievably the child social worker has closed the case!!!

How can that be right?

 

The flat fell through, we found out on Tues, the day before she was meant to move in! The woman who was going to rent it, is buying somewhere and that fell through so she needs this one. She is happy for my daughter to move in when she finds somewhere else.

Hopefully my daughter will have a place somewhere else.

She seems to be jinxed!!

 

The council have referred her to a housing association, who have spoken to her and have a 2 bed flat place near by.

 

All together ........... fingers crossed please.

 

Have also appealed the council decision, but as they are government workers and so are the police and the courts, it's doubful anything will change.

Would be handy if the did disagree though for the closure appeal.

 

She heard yesterday that her appeal against the closure will be heard on November 6th.

 

Heard nothing back from the police, but wrote to them to ask what is going on.

 

Sally xxx

[Guest littlesally]

Social services can help with the deposit but they are not obliged to so it would be up to the individual team manager.

 

Gizmo

Could you point me to where this is on the internet or could you tell me the clause, number, page whatever so I can quote it to them please?

 

Sally x

[gizmo111]

Haven't got a clue a sally where on the internet, just know what we do when there are children in need, which without the support would escalate to CP issues.

Also the the overiding principle of the children act 89 is the welfare of the child is paramount, however as you still have other options they may not step in until your daughter is actually homeless

[sillygirl1]

Has there been any progress? I know how frustrating housing situations can be... nearly a year ago since I was evicted but am now much better off - two nice male flatmates and nearer family. The council didn't want to know but supplied me with garage storage for my stuff....

 

I don't have kids which made a difference to them - hence my earlier comments about the unfairness of the legislation....

[Guest littlesally]

Ok an up date.

The council referred my daughter to a HA who they said they could not house her because of the closure. Why the council referred her I have no idea!

Apparently they had to do something because she has a child, but surely this can't count?

 

Then she had a letter from her HA saying she could collect her keys on Monday as the closure would end, but they were still going to evict as illegal drugs were found.

 

When she collected them, they advised her about appeals, saying an appeal would grant her 14 days and a further one would extend that a further 40.

That sounds pretty good as she wants to move from there but needs time to find somewhere not too far from her daughter's school.

Then the woman said "So where will you be staying?" We looked at each other and she replied "In the flat of course"

The HA woman said "Oh no, we're taking out an injunction against you going to the close"

!!!!!???????

 

I feel that I have slipped in to some warped kind of reality.

Every time her hopes are raised, they get dashed.

Even I find it hard to believe all that has gone on and I am seeing it all - so can understand if anyone reading this thinks I am in denial or missing something out.

I'm not.

 

So far she has been there a week and heard nothing else about the injunction, but we have no doubt that they will try for it.

We have written a statement for her to read out as an appeal against it, as she gets emotional and jumbled up.

Also I am going to Spain tomorrow for a week so if anything happens while I'm away I want something prepared, I am wondering if I should write a statement to be read in my absence.

Anyone know if it will be read?

 

She will move in to mine while I'm away if the injunction is granted.

I don't understand the injunction as she has been to the close a few times to see a friend but there has never been any trouble of any kind.

 

The social services have said they are just about to sign her off??

She told them the latest so they may not but as they know everything up til now and were going to I am confused as to their role.

 

She has an appoitment to see Shelter on Monday.

 

On the police complaints side ..........

One of my friends relapsed and was arrested.

I looked after her son.

The police came with her to collect him When they drove off they started discussing in front of her where they recognised me from. Then one of them said about the closure and started discussing it in front of my friend! Not indepth details but all the same, a blatent confidentiality break! This was another community cop, not the original one.

 

The police Inspector phoned me today to say the chief would be ringing me tomorrow and that the complaint had been moved up from the "Less serious nature" that it was.

I told him I wanted to add what had happened above.

 

I want to say that every time I get down and worried, scared I wonder how my daughter manages.

She is living this and on top of this her boyfriend is dead.

She hates living in the flat, because she feels like she is waiting for him to walk in.

 

She amazes me and I am so proud of her.

 

Thank you for your support and time,

 

Sally xxx

[callumsgran]

Sal, have a lovely time in spain hun, try not to worry too much ( i know easier said than done) and come back relaxed and toned and tanned lol

Maybe you'll have some good news on your return?

Fingers crossed hun:)