Welcome Finance - This company needs to be banned.

[pt2537]

hmm, Welcome, yeah a name i love,

 

Pt2537's  16 claims

 

Pt2537's  16 wins

 

 

There are a number of companies like this, Yes car loans were a prime example, Bradley Say a Barrister from Gough Sq Chambers in london has exposed many of these cases. Yes were awful at putting together their agreements as are welcome

 

I have actually drafted a thread on the issues which often arise with these companies, namely that their agreements are multiple agreements falling within s 18 CCA 1974 and that they are not correctly particularised

 

here is the thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/171037-multiple-agreements-falling-within.html#post1845581

 

At the end of the day, like it or not, the law prescribes what an agreement must contain and must look like, and it also clearly sets out the consequences if it doesnt

[pt2537]

Please refrain from trying to bypass the swear filter, this is a breach of site rules

 

I have unapproved a post for exactly this reason, also i would point out that being rude to other members is also a breach of the rules of this forum

[pt2537]

is there anything to support this view?

 

how did they come into this info?

[pt2537]

now im intrigued here,

 

whats the deal with (un)welcome finance then? anyone care to let me in on the deal?

[pt2537]

anyone who knows about welcome on this thread??? LOL

 

can i ask if someone would be so kind as to have a look here please, http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/167389-welcome-finance-scaring-me-4.html i seriously do not have the time currently as im away on a trial

[pt2537]

Thats also what you get when you pay salespeople commision on selling insurance products....WHOOPS did I just say that!

and if you werent told of the commission that YOU Would have to fund, then you have a claim there too for a secret or undisclosed commission

[pt2537]

Exactly - thank you for confirming my musings

andie,

 

look at paragraph 31-51 of Wilson and Hurstanger, it will tell you all you need to know on the secret commissions

 

also if you can show a link between the commission and the rate of interest you pay , well, lets just say , they will be in a world of ****e

 

we litigate this type of case on a weekly basis mate, there is a lot of mileage in it i can assure you

[pt2537]

sorry, to sum up was i was saying is that surley any insuransce should cover the loan period to ensure your not left in financial difficulty, if i die in 3 years tiime, my partner is in trouble as the policy will have expired so she will have to find the money for 5 years, surely that is not right... its a mis-sell

id say it is a failure of consideration myself

[pt2537]

your right PT, it cant be right that they can do this. Also in 3 years time we are paying for a product that has expired.

no ITS NOT right, the contract fails as without consideration there is no contract FULL STOP

 

 

That is the basics of contract law, you only need to get hold of a good contract law book like Fifoots and Cheshire to work that out mate

[pt2537]

thanks pt, that could be a whole new way of lookingg at the agreement being un-enforceable then.

for the PPI yes, and the transaction could taint the whole agreement, as if the PPI fails then the amount of credit becomes incorrect doesnt it;)

[pt2537]

Sol

 

You Realy Need Peter To Look At This,

My Opinion As To Dipply As Well

 

No Total Ammount Payable

 

Perscribed Term

 

Game Over

 

Dont Want To Get Your Hopes Up But Pretty Damm Sure

 

Wait For Peter Though

 

He Is The Master

nope total amount payable is not a prescribed term, see Schedule 6 Consumer Credit agreement regulations 1983 for the prescribed terms

[pt2537]

total amount payable is a requirement of schedule 1 para 11 SI 1983 / 1553

 

it depends upon the type of agreement, but a breach of schedule 1 is not the same as a breach of schedule 6,

 

simply you need a major breach of schedule 1 really to affect the enforceability of the agreement, maybe 2 or 3 breaches

 

but in contrast, the slightest breach of schedule 6 kills the agreement

[pt2537]

Probably no different from anyone else, but hey

 

what was this loan for?

 

was it for a car? or did you recieve cash in your hand?

[pt2537]

FYI - Just called DG and spoke with the same helpful manager that gave me all the info I needed a couple of months back - I asked her to tell me how much DG received with regards to my policies she then reeled off the figures that were on my agreement...

 

The conversation then went a little like this

 

Me - so that's the amount you got from Welcome?

DG - NO!! thats the amount you paid for your policy

Me - I'm well aware of that I could have looked on my agreement for that I'm wanting to know how much you got for this policy and how much was paid to NU

DG - I don't think I'm allowed to give you that - Can't you ask Welcome?

Me - Err no thats why I'm asking you, I can SAR you to get this information but I just thought as you were so helpful last time you would be as obliging again

DG - Can I just get you to hold??

 

5 minutes of silence

 

DG - Ok I will have to speak with someone higher up can I call you back?

 

I wonder if that higher up is straight to Welcome?

Sadly, a SAR would not provide you the reply you need

 

and you make yourself look somewhat silly in threatening it, however, threaten them with pre action disclosure application under CPR 31.16 and an adverse costs order , now that will do the job and they would be compelled to disclose on order of the court

[pt2537]

Ok thank you - but forgive me and my stupidity - but do they not have to disclose all information they have with regard to me and my account if produced with a SAR??

 

And if needs be is there a form or a letter for the pre action disclosure application?

 

Thanks Again

a sar only covers personal data relating to the data subject.

 

the price of the ppi policy would not be personal data nor would the commissions paid between DG, Welcome and NU, they would be entitled to with hold on a SAR.

 

however , any undisclosed commissions give rise to a cause of action and thus if they refuse under a formal request, then you can slap a Preaction application in

 

see wilson vs hurstanger ltd para 31-51 for details on the relevence of the undisclosed commissions

[pt2537]

 

I NEED SOME SERIOUSE ADVICE

PART OF MY SETTLEMENT IN COURT WITH WELCOME WAS THAT NO FURTHER LITIGATION CAN COMMENCE BY EITHER PARTY,

 

 

What a load of Bollox,

 

never heard so much rubbish , you cannot oust your right to sue a company in a settlement, thats utter nonsense, if this is a new case then you can seek any order you like full stop

[pt2537]

IVE BEEN LED UP THE GARDEN PATH

BIG TIME

 

right pt

 

how do i go about this disclosure order

 

game on

what type of disclosure are you looking for?

[pt2537]

thanks pt

 

it is to serve on direct group to release details onhow much insurance premium direct group received from welcome, the true ammount, not whats on the agreement

 

how much direct group paid norwich union, the so called underwriters

 

 

quote used

 

you by a jumper from m&s, costs 20 quid

 

real cost

 

one quid to factory

Hmm, im not entirely sure that you are entitled to that info without good reason

 

if you could show for example that there was a commission paid between these companies and one was acting as your agent then you could argue that they are in breach of fiduciary duty and that you are entitled to disclosure of commissions paid in secret

 

however, im not convinced this is the case here

 

word of warning, get it wrong and you are looking at legal costs of at least £2k minimum so you must not go headstrong into this

[pt2537]

Ok hypothetical question - what if a company has denied paying commisions on agreements but you come across something that shows otherwise - would that be enough to get this information?

 

Is there no way I can compel them to tell me what parts of money I paid were shared out?

if you have reason to believe that there was a commission paid and you have not been told then you can ask the court to order disclosure under CPR 31.16 of the underwriting sheet which would have been produced when the loan was written

 

this will show all the commissions etc however you will not get it without a bloody good argument and if you dont have a good argument then you may still get the order for disclosure but you will get the respondents costs too and that can run to a couple of grand

 

think before you fire off an application

[pt2537]

oh PT has gone!

:lol: oh no i havent

[pt2537]

the key is knowing what you are asking for,

 

you need to say, I require disclose of XXXXX as i have grounds to believe that there is an undisclosed commission which i have not been told about and as a result i would be entitled to recover that commission

 

without identifying the docs you need how can you ask a court to order them to disclose it

[pt2537]

yes but the trouble is that there is no duty on M&S to tell you what it costs them to produce a sweater

 

even if you buy from them, you have no right to know this, morally or legally

 

so you would fall over on that analogy if you used it with a judge

[pt2537]

Elche and Ellenn are very good on employment law

they are both professionals in that field as far as i know

[pt2537]

correct JC, the relevent paragraphs of the Hurstanger case is 31-51.they are obliged to disclose commissions paid when acting as agents for the individual and if they refuse then disclosure under CPR 31.16 becomes a realisitc proposition.

 

in the case of loans, you should ask for the underwriting sheet as this will show all commissions and the true cost of the loan itself

[pt2537]

Yes PT not only that, if they have failed to comply it may even jeopardize the whole loan & not just the PPI:eek:

yes it can taint the whole loan, if the transactions are so closely linked then this is possible and furthermore the secret comms payment can amount to fraud