The MP's campaign-Responses

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hello can you help me, I want to add to the list, I wrote to my MP and Natoinal Assembly for Wales AM, Rhodri Morgan, the Master of Rolls, and the Western Mail. I can't see how to add names? sorry if I am being stupid!!

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Hi olden, if you can let me have a list of all the names that you have contacted, &/or have replies from, I can then add them to our list. Unfortunately only I can update & edit it. No you're not stupid at all!!

You can either post them onto this thread, or pm me, either way will be OK.

Thank you for helping with our campaign.

 

Hi ja-de, I sent to

Rhodri Morgan, National Assembly for Wales

John Griffiths 4 South Wales East Electoral region National Assembly for Wales

Master of Rolls

MP Jessica Morden, Newport East

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Hi ja-de, Just to say, that it would appear not many claimants are familiar with this site? The true numbers are a great deal more, luckily, over on the Cardiff directions hearing site 14th August 10.30am ( what I call the Cardiff Carve up, 600 of us!!) we all sent to Master of the rolls as well as MPs etc. look up 'smutley' also todays post from '234debt' tells us the court said they had received 600 applications for stays. BRILLIANT!!!

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Hi ja-de I HAVE received a reply from my MP Jessica Morden she wrote to the FSA, and she enclosed their response. she also said the letter is fulsome in its explanations and needs no elabotatoin from her!! Pass the buck eh? I want to scan this FSA letter because I am replying to it. There are a lot of things to be questioned I don't quite know how to scan it any help on that ?

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hello ja-de I have finally cracked it , here is the letter As you will see I have edited it, and underlined a few points which I am going to reply about, what do you think?

 

Financial Services Authority

Dr. Thomas Huertas

Acting Managing Director, Wholesale & Institutional Markets

Director, Wholesale Firms Division and Banking Sector Leader

Direct line: 020 70662300

Local fax: 020 70662301

Email: thomas.huertas@fsa.gov.uk

 

 

Ms Jessica Morden MP Suite 5

1st Floor, Clarence House

Clarence Place

Newport

N197AA

 

28 August 2007

 

Case No 070821D

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Dear Ms Morden

 

Thank you for your letter of 20 August, about unauthorised overdraft charges, on behalf of your constituent Valerie xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

I hope it will be helpful if I outline the background to our decision announced on 27 July to waive temporarily our rules requiring firms to handle customer complaints about unauthorised overdraft charges within particular deadlines.

 

For some time some customers of banks and building societies have been complaining about the charges levied in relation to unauthorised overdrafts. Some institutions have settled with their customers, without admitting liability, and a large number of further complaints are in the pipeline. However, the law in this area is not clear and the current situation provides

neither certainty nor consistency for consumers or current account providers.

 

In these circumstances the OFT and some firms have decided to initiate a test case in the High Court to

resolve legal uncertainties on the level, fairness and lawfulness of these charges. In order to facilitate this process we have issued a waiver of our complaints-handling rules as they apply to complaints about unauthorised overdraft charges. As a result, for a certain period of time any bank or building society that applies for the waiver will not be required to handle such complaints within the time limits set out in our rules.

 

Moreover, as we explained in our recent 'Dear CEO' to relevant firms (which we published on 27 July), in our monitoring of this sector we have identified material shortcomings in some firms' handling of complaints about unauthorised overdraft charges, which is leading to inconsistent outcomes for complainants We believe it is not in the interests of all consumers for complaints to continue to be dealt with in the current inconsistent way. Once there is certainty in this area, firms will be able to deal with these complaints fairly and consistently. To protect consumers' interests while the test case proceeds, the waiver contains a number of conditions that firms must adhere to.

 

The Fi nancial Services Authority

25 The North Colonnade Canary Wharf London E14 5HS United Kingdom Telephone +44 (0)20 7066 1000 Fax +44 (0)20 7066 1099 Financial Services Authority

 

The Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) and the county courts are expected to adopt a similar approach to complaints - that is to delay consideratoin of these complaints until thelegal issues relating to these charges are resolved. We will review the waiver.at the end of September to ensure, among other things, that firms are complying with its conditions. We can revoke the waiver at any time if we consider that it is no longer appropriate because, for example, the test case is not progressing or if a delay in the resolution of the test case is likely to cause undue risk to consumers.

In making the decision on the waiver, we have particularly considered consumers facing financial difficulty. High street banks and building societies subscribe to the Banking Code that covers how firms deal with cases of financial difficulty; the Financial Services Ombudsman ,also considers the Code when making his decisions. The waiver does not apply to complaints about the way that banks and building societies have dealt with financial difficulty. The waiver requires firms to identify such complaints and to progress them throughout the waiver period. If these complaints cannot be resolved, the Ombudsman will be able to consider them.

 

We acknowledge that our decision will lead to inconvenience and delay for some consumersparticularly those who were in the advanced stages of making a claim - in that their complaint may now not be resolved for some time. However, we are clear that the way in which complaints have been handled in the recent past - against a background of uncertainty about what the legal position is on these charges - is unsatisfactory and not in the broader public interest in the longer term. When the legal position on these charges has been clarified, firms will be required to deal with complaints within the normal timetable. In the meantime, we are requiring firms to acknowledge any further complaints they receive on this issue within five days, to keep records of such complaints, and to be prepared to deal with them once we lift the waiver.

Mrs xxxxx suggests that our action might interfere with consumers' human rights. In our view the waiver does not interfere with rights under the Human Rights Act 1998. Consumers may still lodge a complaint with firms or bring a claim to the court during the duration of the waiver, if they wish. Complainants will not be disadvantaged if they wish to wait until the test case is resolved before making a complaint - as we explained above, we imposed acondition in the waiver to preserve consumers' rights so as to prevent complaints becoming time-barred.

 

I hope that this is helpful. I enclose a copy of the press release we issued on 27 July giving further information on our decision and its implications for firms and their customers. If you would find it helpful to have a fuller briefing, we would be happy to arrange that.

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Hi, thanks for that reply, I agree, more good amunition for my letter, I certainly will add your more eloquent way with words. also don't you think this waiver is giving the banks even more opportunity of changing their wording of these penalty charges, and reintroducing them in a different form.

 

this part I have never been able to get to grips with, because in my opinion this criteria has no place in this event, The claimants are ALL in the same position, OVERCHARGED for going over the limit, regardless of our different personal situations. This should not be a lottery, depending on who you are. Every single person is suffering hardship otherwise they would not be in the red.

 

the criteria for what constitutes hardship. When Which? challenged

them on this the FSA ''suggested'' that the banks should use the hardship

criteria in the banking code. Do the FSA seriously expect the average

claiment to know that they've got to go through vast swaithes of the banking code to find out if the can claim, when even the banks were

not told this?

 

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first of all what the hell does he mean "The test case, which will determine if the bank charges are indeed unlawful. is due to begin by October at the very latest. It is hoped that the decision will clarify the level, fairness and lawfulness of these charges." ?? yet it doesn't matter at all about the fairness and lawfullness which is now only operating on the side of the banks, non existant for the claimant, unfair stays which the MOR stated must not apply to those with latter stage of cases, penalties, (and they are penalties, however much the sneaky sly coniving banks are changing the word now) I have recieved a letter today referring to another £30 for going over 39.35, because our pensions came in just after a payment.

What constitutes genuine hardship? we are all in that state thats why we are reclaiming.

 

and engaged in an expensive lottery, and who's fault is that, there should be no distinction in my opinion, neither should the decisioin be based on how well you present your case, providing you have supplied all the essential evidence, that should be enough. This is just siding with the banks again.

" firms will be able to deal with them in a fair and convenient way"

FOR WHO? they've already had that opportunity why haven't they come clean Why has NO JUDGE ever forced them to hand in the breakdown of their cost of charges.

 

SORRY THIS WAS REPLY TO SMUTLEY POST 57

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hold on a second, was bonnie's MP the same as Oldens? Anyone?

Hi crfx250 and bonnie, as you say my MP is Jessica Morden, this letter was FSA response to her asking Dr Thomas Heurtas of FSA, her letter was simply as follows:

Please find enclosed a copy of a letter I have received from the Financial Services Authority in response to representations I made to them on your behalf about the way overcharging complaints are to be handled.

 

The letter is fulsome in its explanations and needs no elaboration from me. Can I please ask you to consider the letter and let me know whether you wish me to make further representationis on your behalf?

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Bonnie & Olden - Can you both ask your MP's for a copy of the letter that

they sent off to the FSA.

 

The letters must have asked at least slightly different questions and had

a somewhat different emphasis. For the FSA to send them back the same cut & paste job demonstrates contempt for Members of Parliament and

I'd be very keen to give this to the Treasury Select Committee. They would not be Impressed.

 

 

YES OK I will do that , I am trying to get my letter sorted, It is getting longer by the minute.

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I am thinking about resending to the National Assembly of Wales member, since I have had no response other than acknowledgement, is it worth sending another letter to Rhodri Morgan?

 

I have replied to Jessica Morden MP and also to Dr Thomas Huertas, FSA.

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Hi ja-de I am still un able to confirm my signature(well 3 in the household) on the petition. webpage not found, unavailable or moved or removed? what is going on, I have tried the aol.thing, nothing happeneing.?

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Hi again ja-de I am still unable to confirm my signature(well 3 in the household) for the petition, the webpage not found, unavailable, moved or removed etc. what is happening, i have tried the aol thing nothing happening.

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Hi jenny, I forgot to mention the human rights bit in my reply letters, the FSA thinks that the waiver does not interfere with our human rights!!(post 65) My MP Jessica Morden Newport East.

 

yes I think it would be worth pushing human rights, because it does effect us.

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Hi olden, which petition is it you are trying to find???

What's the "aol thing"????

 

Hi I am not trying to find the petition, I have already signed, its the email sent to me to click on the link to confirm that doesn't work , the prime minister petition charter by Martin Lewis. The AOL thing is someone told me that sometimes if you are with AOL it doesn't open some links, try Ctrl,Alt,and Del. no joy anyway.

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MONEY SAVING ADVICE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC20:1:05

 

Mr Gregory Campbell Mr Nigel Dodds Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson Bob Spink Mr Mike Hancock Mr Roy Beggs* 6

That this House commends the activities of those persons and groups dedicated to assisting members of the public get value for money in purchases, insurance, overdrafts and mortgages; and recognises that money saving experts like Martin Lewis at Money Saving Expert: Consumer Revenge - Credit Cards, Shopping, Bank Charges, Cheap Flights and more provides, on a not-for-profit basis, an incentive for ordinary consumers to pressurise large providers and financial institutions to hold down prices to the general public.

 

YOU MAY FIND THIS INTERESTING , ITS IN THE EARLY DAY MOTIONS IN PARLIAMENT ON THE MSE SITE

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Olden - what I'm interested is the letter your MP sent the FSA

 

 

Hello crfx just to let you know I have sent to Jessica Morden, questioning the FSA letter and asking for a copy of her letter to them as you said. Waiting to hear now;)

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Osborne, George MP-Tatton (Shadow Chancellor)

 

Has replied saying he agrees bank charges are UNFAIR! and it's unfair the banks can have a stay while this is sorted out.

 

said hes going to write to the FSA and the master

of the rolls and forward on the replied letters to me.

 

Thanks George!

Will keep you informed

 

Thats great ! Anybody who has an unbiased opinion must agree with that, it is so stupid. if they had said that all claims held in the system to be dealt with and THEN a stop on further claims and a stop on penalty charges also!

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Well have received a reply off the FSA who were contacted by John Greenway MP for Ryedale, he also wrote to the British Bankers Association but to date has not replied.

 

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w9/Themainman_bucket/FSAReply1.jpg

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w9/Themainman_bucket/FSA2.jpg

 

YES identical to my letter from the FSA via my MP.( as I posted further back on several of our sites) I have sent response to MP and FSA. !!!

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Hi Jenny I was about to tell you that !! Her letter rather a lot of waffle, what about the bit about re determining issues? what on earth does she think, that those millions paid out would miraculously get given back,if the unllikely event the banks won? piffle. also methinks she agrees too much with the banks and FOS FSA !! having to help save the tax payers money ?

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Hi I am sure there are a lot more than 100 letters gone to MPs etc. It seems not everyone is aware of this site I know there are probalbly hundreds on the the Cardiff directions hearing site, and definately on the MSE sites

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Hi ja-de

 

Well I can't believe it ! First of all "you will be pleased to hear the courts are still hearing cases" well I never!! what are we worried about then lets all go and find one shall we:rolleyes: We have all seen that article thankyou sir ! Also "for assistance in moving your claim against a bank forward" do you think if all of us in wales asked nicely they would lift our stays so we could transfer? ( and everywhere else) lets ring the consumer direct then shall we.

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Hi Macboy, and all

I agree with you I think we have been so meticulous in our efforts to bring this to the attention of someone high up, to do something about the corruption going on, that some replys are an insult and then there are the ignorant ones who haven't answered.

 

lets send to more MPs

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Hi Ja-de Today I had all these responses !! I have pasted them over from the Cardiff Directions site, I am fuming what do you think of this lot:-x

 

 

Classic Account Customer

 

Join Date: Jun 2007

Posts: 193

 

 

 

Re: Cardiff directions hearings *POST HERE*

Hi Jenny, (and all of you) This is my day for receiving answers GET a load of this:

 

................

JUDICIARY OF

ENGLAND AND WALES

ANDY CATON

PRIVATE SECRETARY TO THE DEPUTY HEAD OF CIVIL JUSTICE

14th September 2007

Dear Ms

Thank you for your letter dated 10th September 2007 and enclosures

Unfortunately this office does not have any record of receiving your letter of 13th

August, but in response to the points raised it is quite correct to say that no "blanket"

direction to stay cases involving bank charges was made by the Deputy Head of Civil

Justice. Instead the Designated CivilJudge for each area of England and Wales was

asked to consider the cases for which he and his District Judges have conduct and to

make an assessment as to the appropriate course of action.

In some areas there is a large volume of cases which relate to the same point, it is

therefore not surprising that an assessment has been made that a great many of the

cases should be stayed pending the outcome of the High Court hearing.

It is of course open to you to make representations to the County Court to have the

stay lifted. It is however, a matter for the local Judiciary to decide how a case should

be conducted.

 

 

Master of the Rolls Private Office Room E214 Royal Courts of Justice Strand London WC2A2LL

Telephone 020 7947 7402 Fax 029 7947 7475 Email andrew.caton2@judiciary.g si.gov.uk

Website Judiciary of England and Wales website

 

and this

 

Dear Valerie

 

Jessica has asked me to contact you about your e mail of 7 September in connection with the above.

 

I have spoken to Jessica and she thinks the best course of action would be to take your concerns up direct with the Chief Executive of the Office of Fair Trading along with a request that they contact you direct to try and resolve your difficulties. In this respect, therefore, are you content for me to release copies of your correspondence to OFT?

 

I look forward to hearing from you. In the meantime, I will let you have a copy of the letter Jessica sent to the FSA.

 

Anthony Jermyn

Caseworker

Office of Jessica Morden MP Newport East

Suite 5, 1st Floor, Clarence House, Clarence Place, Newport, South Wales NP19 7AA

01633 841726

jermyna@parliament.uk

 

 

AND THIS:-x

 

General form of Judgement or Order Before District Judge Hendicott sitting at Cardiff County Court etc..etc..

 

Upon reading the Claimants submissions to the proposed order of stay it is ordered that the submissions be treated as an applicaiton to remove the stay in the order of 07 August 2007

 

The application be refused.

 

As this has been refused without a hearing either party may apply for the applicant to be reconsidered at an oral hearing. Any such applicaiton shall be on notice and is reserved to HHJ Hickinbottom or DJ Hendicott unless expressly released by either:-x

 

Firstly the Master of Rolls I have proof of delivery of my first letter signed for!!

 

Second, PASS THE BUCK WHY DON'T YOU FSA

 

And Third The judge saying my application to be treated as an application ???what ???

 

I already asked for an oral hearing ???

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Hi ja-de I might contact the court to ask them about that, but I don't think there is much more we can do now, I have written to the BBC after looking on the penaltycharges.co site

 

SEPTEMBERS NEWS LETTER

 

Dear ~Members~

 

Following on from the OFT announcement that they are conducting a test case against the bank we were concerned and we are still concerned whether the test case will ever get heard. It appears from recent media source as if The OFT is going to set a limit which they think is a fair amount and if they banks agree to that limit the test case will be dropped.

Link to media source BBC NEWS | Business | OFT may compromise on bank case

 

Most of you would have also noticed this paragraph in the article

 

"In most instances we would probably agree with the banks' arguments that these are not penalties as defined in common law," said Mr Elithorn.

 

Now what is interesting about this is the fact that Mr Elithorn use to be a Senior Manager for Capital One . See http://www.oft.gov.uk/news/press/2007/62-07

 

So in realty his comments were not that surprising "however it does beg the Question what on earth is going on at the OFT" and is it all ex bank, credit card mangers making the decisions?

 

Remember we have a published advice and a template for Members to have stays set a side, however remember you will need to amend this to suit your circumstances, people who are struggling finically will probably be more successful in having stays overturned.

 

We would advice people to WRITE to the OFT and ask them to confirm that Mr.Elithorn Statement is correct, (remember spell it out) if they confirm it is I would included this in your application for stays to be lifted as clearly there is no guarantee the test case will ever get heard.

 

Joined Forces

 

We are happy to announce that we have joined forces with Moneysaving expert and Consumer Action Group and in August the three sites published the bank charges Charter there is also a new petition on the Governments web site that we hope you will sign.

 

Link to the charter http://www.penaltychargesforum.co.uk/announcement.php?f=182&a=61

 

Link to the Petition http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/BankCharter/

 

BBC NEED YOU

 

The BBC Money Programme is making a film about bank charges. We're investigating the current situation between the banks and the OFT examining at how it effects those still hoping to claim. We'd like to hear your stories.

 

Are you going to court in the next few weeks to claim back bank charges? Do you know if your case will be heard or not? Since the ruling on the 28th July have you had your case heard or been offered a settlement? Would you be willing to speak to the BBC about your situation? We'd like to film with someone currently in the process of trying to claim back their penalty charges.

 

We'd also like to hear from people who feel they've experienced intimidating behaviour from their bank after submitting a claim.

 

If any of the above apply to you and your willing to share your story, please contact

Marianne.lueck@bbc.co.uk

0208 752 7447

 

WE NEED YOU

 

We are trying to find people who are in finical difficulty because of bank charges who have applied for stay to be removed and argued that they are suffering from hardship

 

We like to hear from you is you made an application to the court for the stay to be lifted but this was declined. And or you told your bank but they have ignored you!

 

WHAT NEXT

 

The simple answer is keep filing you claims if your claim is stayed decided if using the application to have the stay lifted is suitable for your circumstances.

 

GREAT NEWS

 

We almost at 5,000,000.00 refunded to members so great work everyone.

 

THANK YOU

 

To all the sites Admin and Mods and Members that have given so much of their time to help people because it's the right thing to do. With out you and without your input this site would not work.

 

So a big thank you from me

 

Stephen Hone

Founder of the war against bank charges,

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Hi Phantom The FSA1, is identical to mine, well thats no surprise anyway. lets hope something good comes from your MP at least Alison Seabeck is thinking a lot more about this than most other MPs I am waiting for my reply to my rather angry response to mine.