Celicaman vs HSBC business 'My empire strikes back'

[Celicaman]

Ok, this is my first business claim to go into HSBC.

It is for a closed business account which operated 2000/2002 and managed to acrue unlawfull charges of around £1k plus im asking for £150 interest back as charged on the penalties.

 

I used Mindzias spreadsheet as i find it easy to use.

 

So today i sent my prelim Direct to Colin ( Hi Colin if your watching )

might as well draft the LBA now as we know there will be no response, if there is, it will be the usual blurb, plus they will say that

(A) half of the charges are outside of the 6 year period so will not consider them Wrong

Will be using the s32 limitations act to get over that hurdle:)

and

(B) We do not pay out requests for repayment of interest charged on the unlawfull charges Wrong

recent case law said you will.

 

Both have case law to back up the my claims, including i think its halliday vs HBOS where the judge although going against the claimant for CI stated that claiming interest charged on unlawfull charges is reclaimable ( if ive got it wrong please inform me cos im going off memory and read on a post somewhere)

 

So we will see how fast they reply if at all

 

Any input or help appreciated

 

Celicaman

[pinkduchess]

not you again!!

 

joking of course - good luck with this one CM

[jowalshy]

Hi CM, good luck in your next adventure.

 

I have had a look around to see if I can find the info re: CI, but alas I couldn't find it.

[jowalshy]

Hello its me again. I have done a bit of searching and found this:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/97691-contractual-interest-precedent-lost.html?highlight=Halliday+v+HBOS

 

It might help you, it might not, but it is an interesting read.

 

P.S I think it was Halliday v HBOS

[Castlebest]

Hiya CM good luck with your new one, think the pre 6 year stuff you are looking for is either on this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/104704-hsbc-general-form-judgment.html

 

or on Chauvesouris's own thread, I kept a note because I have one going back to 1995 on one of my card claims.

 

pete

[Celicaman]

Thanks for the encouragement guys, will keep you posted When colin writes back lol, This is just the warm up claim LOL

 

CM

[Celicaman]

Ok, update

Letter yesterday,( pretty fast reply) with usual garbage

Need to revise charges as put couple stopped cheque charges on there that shouldnt have been ( i stopped them, & didnt realise thats what they were, well now i do, thanks HSBC)

3 x £4 charges on there for returned cheques, IE customer cheques that bounced, cost me £4 each, didnt know if i can claim them, they say no, i will check it out.

They say they don't pay OD interest on the charges, well in Halliday vs HBOS case, the judge said they do

They claim that the OFT statement about credit card charges does not include business accounts. Well actually it just said other bank accounts and not specifically personal accounts, so wrong again.

But because they are mindfull etc, they will offer under £500

 

so nice letter back to mr patel saying thanks for pointing mistake out and the rest is balony, oh and no thanks i want all my money

 

Any comments

 

Celicaman

[pinkduchess]

i like it

[Celicaman]

Ok Guys & Gals heres the LBA & refusal of offer

 

With reference to your letter of **th July 2007.

 

Thank you for pointing out the charges for stopping cheques and items returned items paid in, I have revised the summary sheet to show nil for those items, and show a revised total below.

 

In reply to your statement that HSBC do not refund debit interest.

I contest this as incorrect & refer to the recent Halliday vs HBOS case where Justice Underhill confirmed that debit interest could be claimed on unlawfull charges.

 

In reply to the OFT statement relating to credit card companies and not banks. ‘The April statement also indicated that the OFT considers that the broad principles in relation to default charges are likely to be relevant to other standard agreements with consumers such as those for bank current accounts.’ Source OFT website.

 

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my business account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law and contrary to Statute.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated the account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I do not accept your offer of £***.00 as, even taking into account the revised charge summary, the amount is still far short of the amount I am claiming.

As I believe a court would award the debit interest, I again include it in my claim amount.

 

I calculate that you have taken £*** plus £*** which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken. Total £****.**

 

I require repayment of this money. If you do not return it to me in full within 14 days, I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest, plus my costs, without further notice.

 

Hows that then

Oh and did anybody notice they forgot to mention that they think it is outside of the 6 year limitations, maybe next letter

CM

[freakyleaky]

Looking good CM! Maybe they have forgotten the standard drivel about the 6 year limitations??

 

Go get em bud!!!

[Celicaman]

Thanks guys & Girls,

Freaky i see you have moved house, now living in middle earth.

Tastes changed from sheep to Hobbitts Huh

 

CM

[Castlebest]

Oh gawd no ... hes not moved to Birmingham has he ??????

 

pete

[freakyleaky]

Birmingham is to close to the enemy! As gandalf said " Ekfdnr gemliarbor flaxinferves nergestil flungrendilutious gransus vastiluatecan" Now go and find the translator for elvish and let me know if you agree!

[Celicaman]

Anybody got any clues as to how this OFT thing is going to effect business claims, i got 4 other business claims to start, 2 of which are all over 6 years old so i'm just not sure what to do yet as the UTC & UTCCR dont effect business claims.

[lancasterchelsea]

same here cm

I've got 5 business claims started including 1 with RBS

plus about 8 credit card claims

how can we get a definitive answer

[lateralus]

don't quote me on this - but didn't i read this has no bearing on business claims

[lancasterchelsea]

the poc on my mcol refers to common law law only

not to the unfair terms in consumer contractsregs

unfair contract terms

 

a personal claim also mentions common law plus the other stuff

will the banks lump them all together

 

How do get a definitive answer...... hopefully business claims can proceed

[Celicaman]

Just been reading something on Photomans business thread and Hijinx on there posted This:

 

I similarly asked the question of the OFT , FSA and Ombudsman about whether business accounts were included in the "Test Case and Waiver".This wasnt on their scripted answer sheet but in the end they seemed (!) to confirm that it covered all bank charges.So while the OFT has brought their action to protect consumers (with business accounts not covered by consumer law) we seemed to have been swallowed up in the general blanket catchall of this test case.

This may not be the definitive answer as there was no instant clarity from any of the three parties but it gave me further grounds for depression.

Hijinx

 

 

So no real clarity there then

 

CM

[Celicaman]

I have seen written somewhere that business claims rely on CYNTHesis ?

whats that then,

 

CM

[lateralus]

just spent some time reading the oft stuff on their site - the statement - the q & a's and the agreement -

it looks to be nov. at least before anything is going to move much -

but in reading - i found several mentions of personal current accounts and not one of business accounts.

also, it looks to me like the basis for all the fuss is the UTCCR 99 basis for saying they are unfair - and business claims don't use that in their particulars - so i can't see the connection

my verdict is this shouldn't have any effect of business claims (yet)

[lancasterchelsea]

I'm with you Lat

I hope/fingers crossed

[Celicaman]

Well had second reply of HSBC, and they are not upping the offer, previous one stands if i want it (not),and usual bleating on about our charges etc ,boring............... so start filling in the N1 POC over the weekend.

CM

[Audreygreeneyes]

good luck CM :)

[pinkduchess]

Happy birthday CM x

[Audreygreeneyes]