Blades65 vs HBOS Preference - IQOR Recovery

[Peterbard]

Yes as you are disputing the sum of money owed.

Hi

 

I agree however this is not to be confused with the account being in default, charges may still accrue on an account whilst it is in dispute and they would be applied if the case was lost, if the account was in defult then no charges can be applied within that period.

 

Regards

 

Peter

[bfb]

Blades if you have been sent this under a section 78 request the document is incomplete- it is called a schedule and refers to terms and conditions overleaf

 

 

 

Peter, you refer to a main account with main account conditions separate to this so called overdraft agreement However there is no main account with this. There is no current account with it and it is not sold as such This suggests to me that the provisions of section 74 exempting it from part V of the Act could be argued as not being applicable

 

 

 

Defaults under it are not referred to as current account defaults but as store card/running account defaults reflecting that this is not a current account

 

However, the account conditions are written in such a way that it is possible for them to be exempt from section 127(3) They contain all of the prescribed terms under the 1983 regulations schedule 6 when combined with a date of agreement.

 

bfb

[bfb]

defaults under this are referred to as "credit card/ store card" not as stated above suggesting that the Bank regards it as such

[BLADES65]

Blades if you have been sent this under a section 78 request the document is incomplete- it is called a schedule and refers to terms and conditions overleaf

 

 

 

Peter, you refer to a main account with main account conditions separate to this so called overdraft agreement However there is no main account with this. There is no current account with it and it is not sold as such This suggests to me that the provisions of section 74 exempting it from part V of the Act could be argued as not being applicable

 

 

 

Defaults under it are not referred to as current account defaults but as store card/running account defaults reflecting that this is not a current account

 

However, the account conditions are written in such a way that it is possible for them to be exempt from section 127(3) They contain all of the prescribed terms under the 1983 regulations schedule 6 when combined with a date of agreement.

 

bfb

 

That is right there are no other T&C's or a sperate agreement for the 'main account'.

[Peterbard]

Blades if you have been sent this under a section 78 request the document is incomplete- it is called a schedule and refers to terms and conditions overleaf

 

 

 

Peter, you refer to a main account with main account conditions separate to this so called overdraft agreement However there is no main account with this. There is no current account with it and it is not sold as such This suggests to me that the provisions of section 74 exempting it from part V of the Act could be argued as not being applicable

 

 

 

Defaults under it are not referred to as current account defaults but as store card/running account defaults reflecting that this is not a current account

 

However, the account conditions are written in such a way that it is possible for them to be exempt from section 127(3) They contain all of the prescribed terms under the 1983 regulations schedule 6 when combined with a date of agreement.

 

bfb

 

HI

 

If you think this is a credit account in it's own right and and therefore should be covered by the cca.

Then wrute to them and say so see what they say.

I would be interested to see the reply my opinion is as i have stated after seing your T and c's but hey i could be wrong it's happened before.

 

Best of luck

 

Peter

[BLADES65]

Quick Update:

 

BoS have registered the account with all 3 credit reference agencies as a 'credit card/store card'.

 

If this is the case and the agreement does not contain any reference to the CCA, specifically 'this is a credit agreement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, what, if any, are the possible consequences for the creditor.

 

Thanks

[reallymadwoman]

I have a similar query over a BOS Preference Account. It came with a loan - one of the ones where both agreements were on the same form - and I was definitely under the impression that a) it was compulsory and b) it was a credit card. I only realised it wasn't when I was sent a copy of the agreement.

Over the last couple of days I've been trying to think it through and had come to the conclusion that the only reason the agreement was worded as a current account was to avoid the CCA legalities. I am seriously considering challenging this account on the basis that it was missold as I believed it to be a credit card and therefore subject to the CCA. I also routinely use credit cards to pay for anything that has to be delivered because of the extra protection they give, so I could have had quite a shock if I'd tried to claim on this one.

However I'm tackling BOS one account at a time - or my poor little brain gets confused - so this will have to wait in line. In the meantime, I'll be watching your thread with interest.

Defaults are also registered as credit/store card.

[bfb]

The terms on the agreement contain all of the prescribed term under the 1983 Agreements regulations so might quoting s127 of the act constitute a document " (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner). " which can be enforceable under the act with a court order

 

 

However the lack of references to the act in the agreement while recording it as a credit card with credit reference agencies is questionable- I certainly have questioned it forceably

[reallymadwoman]

Any suggestions as to how to proceed with this? I was thinking of pursuing the missold line, similar to missold PPI, as I was given the impression it was not optional - pre-printed details and sign here - and I think the product is very clearly a credit card and not a bank account. I was never offered any means of paying money into the account regularly nor was there any facility to make regular payments out, e.g. SO or DD. The statements definitely look like credit card statements with the minimum payment and 'available to spend' bits. I've never seen either on a bank statement!

[BLADES65]

Well it's been a long time but today finally received this letter:

 

I have claimed £388.89 in charges and £279.20 in mis-sold PPI.

 

Today received a final offer of £29.91.

 

They are saying the charges prior to 2001 are statute barred.

 

They did supply all my statements to the account from inception and that is why I knew the total charges figure.

 

Also the original default was incoorect as it included charges, can I now ask for this to be removed.

 

The PPI claim is being dealt with seperately.

 

What is my position now, do I take it to court.

 

Thanks again.

[Curlyben]

Gee that's nice of them.

well in that case here's your response.

Edit as needed.

 

Letter Before Action & Response to settlement offer

Account number: xxxxxxxx

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/xx. I respectfully decline your offer as Full and Final settlement and request, once again, that you return to me all charges imposed on this account along with the overdraft interest you have charged me on the amounts you have taken, totalling £xxx.xx. I will accept the sum offered only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that I will pursue recovery of the remainder, with a County Court claim if necessary. For the avoidance of doubt, I wish to stress that I do not accept your offer under the terms stated in your letter.

 

I am very disappointed that you have failed to respond adequately to my letter of the xx/xx/xx. I now understand that the regime of ‘fees’ which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations. I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law. I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I calculate that you have taken £xxx.xx plus £xxx.xx which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken. Total £xxx.xx. I am enclosing a copy of the schedule of the charges which I am claiming. I have already sent you a copy of this in my original letter of the xx/xx/xx.

 

I note from your letter dated xx/xx/xx that you have disregarded part of my claim (£xxx.xx) for charges which are older than 6 years and I would like to clarify my position on this. I paid the charges under the mistaken belief that you were entitled to levy them. I believe you have concealed and continue to conceal both the nature of the unlawful charges and my right of action to recover them. You have been well aware of the charges campaign for several months together with the OFT report highlighting the law and your obligations. It is clear that you have continued with your charges regime and its concealment after the date of the first OFT report and have therefore lost the protection of the Limitation Act due to s.32 of said act. Concealment amounts to a question of the morality of your actions. I understand that this view is also confirmed by case-law. If you do not understand this then I suggest you consult with your legal department.

 

I also note from your letter dated xx/xx/xx that you have disregarded my claim for overdraft interest as you believe I am not entitled to it without a successful court claim. I would just like to clarify that the interest I am claiming in this instance is overdraft interest which you have already charged me on the amounts you have taken. I think you are confusing this with statutory interest that may be awarded at the discretion of a court. If you are still confused about this then again, you should consult with your legal department.

 

I require repayment in full of all monies owed (£xxx.xx). If you do not comply fully within 14 days I shall begin a legal claim against you for the full amount, plus interest, plus my costs and without further notice.

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

Yours Etc

[BLADES65]

Partial victory.

 

Received a letter today saying that the PPI is being refunded to the account as they cannot confirm I requested PPI cover. They are offering a full refund od the premiums paid ples interest from the start of the policy and will be credited in 14 days.

 

The letter also says ' Due to this decision in my favour they have not answered any of my other compliants re charges and in the meantime I should make at least the minimum monthly payment as per my latest statement. The thing is I don't get any statements. and the account is still in dispute re charges.

 

The letter does not however give any figures so i am assuming they are repaying what I have claimed. I will be firing off another letter for clarification of the figure.

 

Should I now send an LBA for the charges again reminding them of the limitation act.

 

I don't think I'll bother with asking for the Default to be removed from CRA files as it drops off on 30th April but as the default was factually incorrect I could also threaten them with a claim for damages due to my credit record being damaged. Any thoughts on that.

 

 

PS. By the way the arguments about whether this is a current account or credit card has been answered by BOS, the letter is headed:

 

Bank Of Scotland Credit Card Repayment Cover for Card number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[flirtz2009]

Sent the CCA request 9th May 2007 to Legal & Trade who have been collecting for HBOS Preference Account.

 

I received a letter back dated 29th May stating that the they have passed the request to their client and that the account was placed on hold.

 

Today I received a package and letter from IQOR Recovery Services, same address as Legal & Trade, enclosing statements back to 1995 and request to settle the debt. Still no agreement or T&C's relating to my original request.

 

They are now well outside the 12+2 +30.

 

Thoughts most welcome.

 

Thanks

 

The same thing happen to me. I requested a CCA from them on the 1st Dec and today i recieved a package from them with a copy of my bill. Do they have the right to collect the debt or do I need to send them another letter saying they did not complie with my original request. Thanks

[Fred Bassett]

Have you ever had a copy agreement for this account? These accounts are nearly all unenforceable because although they act as a credit card, the agreements do not state that they are regulated under the Consumer Credit Act.

 

It's worth getting hold of that agreement if you haven't got it already.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[BLADES65]

I have had a Halifax account for over 15 years.

 

I received an upgrade invitation to the Ultimate Reward Account with a £12.50 monthly fee. The account carried various benefits including free travel insurance and a £300 interest free overdraft. I already had a £100 overdraft in place.

 

I received a letter notifying me of a £35 charge for going over my agreed overdraft on 16th July 2009 and that it would be debited at the end of that month. I checked my statement and there is no entry in the account balance column that shows me going over my overdraft.

 

The next day I received a further letter stating that I had incurred two further £35 charges and they too would be debited at the end of the month.

 

I immediately called them and stated taht nowhere on my statements have I gone over my £100 agreed O/D, they stated that the fees were correct, I also asked why I did not now have a £300 O/D and was told that my application was declined. I told them that I was being charged £12.50 per month and it was not clear in the literature that you had to apply for the £300. If that was the case I would not have upgraded. I was told that the Halifax had acted correctly and the fees would stand.

 

I then went to the branch to complain and request closure of the account, I cancelled the £100 O/D and left £4.97 in the account for two itunes payments due. I cut up my card and handed in a letter of complaint stating I disputed the charges. The advisor stated I could not close the account as charges were to be applied but she would forward my letter and take my cut up card. i also request cancellation of the £12.50 monthly fee.

 

I checked online at the end of that month the status of the account, the charges totalling £105 had been debited and the £12.50 fee was taken out as well as the two itunes transaction of 79 pence each. I received a letter stating that i was being charged a further £28 for going into an unauthorised O/D and £35 for each payment paid totalling £175.00.

 

I wrote another letter sent recorded putting the account in dispute and asking why the £12.50 fee was being taken out and that it should be cancelled.

 

Every month since then charges and the £12.50 fee has been debited and I have had letters from Albion Collections and Blair Oliver & Scott chasing payment. I have replied each time stating I dispute the charges.

 

I received a Default Notice on 22nd August 2009 stating that to remedy the situation I should repay £232.32 before 18th September 2009.

 

On 5th September I received a termination notice saying they had terminated the agreement as I had not repayed the requested amount in the default notice.

 

I sent further letters stating account in dispute and that the £12.50 was still being debited.

 

The account was noted as defaulted on my Experian file on 18th January 2010 despite being in dispute.

 

I then received a letter from a customer relations manager and in that letter it states.

 

'I do appreciate that the majority of the balance of the account has been made up of charges to the account, however I am unable to agree that these have been applied correctly.'

 

The letter then makes an offer of refund of all of the charges totalling £350 which is the whole of the charges applied but no mention of the £12.50 fees that had continued to be charges or the interest accrued.

 

The letter had a full and final offer sheet to sign and return.

 

I called the person and stated that the letter does not address the issue of the £12.50 fees or interest and I was told I would have to speak to another department. I called them and they point blank refused to refund the £12.50 fees from the date of my initial request in branch despite having further letters requesting cancellation. i have now received a final response stating that they will not refund the £12.50 fees.

 

Now to my question, what do I do now? Accept the £350 refund which is full and final or fight for the whole lot including the default on my credit file which up to this was clean as a whistle.

 

Do I go to the Ombudsman or go to Court.

 

Your help and advise woul be much appreciated.

Edited May 28, 2010 by BLADES65

[MARTIN3030]

Hi pm acknowledged.

Can you say if you dealt with this in writing-or what was dealt with by you in writing

 

It would seem that events took a turn from July 2009-how was your account managed prior to this ?

For example would you say that it was managed ok by you (not frequently overdeawn etc ) ?

[MARTIN3030]

'I do appreciate that the majority of the balance of the account has been made up of charges to the account, however I am unable to agree that these have been applied correctly.'

 

 

Is this right ?

They appear to say that the charges were not applied correctly.

[MARTIN3030]

Have you got a copy of the terms and conditions in which you referre to the ambiguity ?

[BLADES65]

Hi pm acknowledged.

Can you say if you dealt with this in writing-or what was dealt with by you in writing

 

It would seem that events took a turn from July 2009-how was your account managed prior to this ?

For example would you say that it was managed ok by you (not frequently overdeawn etc ) ?

 

It has been dealt with in writing and by phone to the person who has mad the offer of refund.

 

I have a pile of letters in chronological order.

 

The account has been run impeccably from the start with only one previous charge due to the debit of a D/D early which the bank refunded in 2005.

 

The compliant has been handled by four separate departments 3 playing hardball and the one offering the refund fairly but they could not authorise refund of the £12.50 monthly fees despite acknowledging having the requests in writing.

 

The other main issue is the default on the CRA files which they point blank refuse to remove despite the account being in dispute.

[BLADES65]

'I do appreciate that the majority of the balance of the account has been made up of charges to the account, however I am unable to agree that these have been applied correctly.'

 

 

Is this right ?

They appear to say that the charges were not applied correctly.

 

This is verbatim from her letter.

[BLADES65]

Have you got a copy of the terms and conditions in which you referre to the ambiguity ?

 

Unfortunately not, the leaflet had £300 free overdraft as a prominent headline but i would imagine the details of having to apply were in the micro copy in the T&C's.

[MARTIN3030]

Ok leave this with me-I will consult with team for thoughts.

 

Has there been any date given for acceptance of their F + F ?

[BLADES65]

Ok leave this with me-I will consult with team for thoughts.

 

Has there been any date given for acceptance of their F + F ?

 

The letter makes no specific mention of a deadline for the F&F form but the l;ast paragraph reads:

 

'As long as you are happy with the way I have dealt with your complaint, there is no need for you to reply to my letter. if I have not heard from you by 12th April 2010 I will close my file'.

[MARTIN3030]

So what was the last date of communication ?

 

If its more than 8 weeks,then they will consider the matter closed.

[BLADES65]

So what was the last date of communication ?

 

If its more than 8 weeks,then they will consider the matter closed.

 

Last letter from them was dated 7th May 2010 It makes no reference to the F&F offer and basically reiterates the bank has applied charges correctly and that Blair Oliver and Scott are are administering the account. It sates that if they do not hear from me by 2nd July she will close her file. I received a demand from Blair Oliver & Scott on 4th May 2010 for £498.11.

 

It appears the original complaint has gone to different depts as I have three complaint ref No's on correspondence.