Blades65 vs HBOS Preference - IQOR Recovery

[BLADES65]

Sent the CCA request 9th May 2007 to Legal & Trade who have been collecting for HBOS Preference Account.

 

I received a letter back dated 29th May stating that the they have passed the request to their client and that the account was placed on hold.

 

Today I received a package and letter from IQOR Recovery Services, same address as Legal & Trade, enclosing statements back to 1995 and request to settle the debt. Still no agreement or T&C's relating to my original request.

 

They are now well outside the 12+2 +30.

 

BoS have a product which I consider to be a running credit account.

 

It is called the Preference Account and is advertised as this:

 

THE MONEY YOU NEED WHENEVER YOU NEED IT Extra spending power No annual fee Combined cash card/cheque guarantee card/Switch card Minimum repayments only £5 or 5% of outstanding balance Free magazine with regular special offers Provided by CAPITAL BANK plc APR 29.9% (variable)You can apply for a Preference Account now. It’s a cheque account with the extra advantage of a built-in credit limit of up to £2,500. Upon acceptance you will receive a Bank of Scotland cheque book, a cheque guarantee card with cash card and Switch facilities.

This special account gives you the ability to cope easily with those unexpected - and expected - expenses without incurring bank charges on your current cheque account. This proves especially useful for spreading the cost of motoring expenses such as servicing, accident repairs, parts and replacement tyres, for example.

A monthly statement details all transactions and confirms your authorised overdraft limit while showing the amount you still have available to spend.

 

Today received the application form with T&C's on a seperate sheet.

 

Now I think I have said previously that this account was a card that also came with cheques. It had a limt of £2500 and you paid interest on the debit balance via a minimum payment on a monthly statement.

 

Now you may think as I do that this is a credit card account but looking at the application form that has come nowhere does it say it is regulated by the CCA 1974.

 

My obvious suspicion is that BoS will say this is a current account but the whole concept of the card was to use the limit given so therefore they are giving you credit to use as per a credit card.

 

If the document they have provided makes no mention of the CCA 1974 what is the consequence of this.

 

I would urgently like your opinions on this.

 

This is the document supplied in response to my CCA request:

 

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h107/garyeyre/IMG_1185.jpg

 

This is the monthly statement:

 

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h107/garyeyre/IMG_1184.jpg

 

 

Thanks

 

Bump

 

Anyone

 

Thoughts most welcome.

 

Thanks

[Curlyben]

I would certainly agree that this does appear to be a s78 account, but the lacking of CCA74 regulation does seem somewhat odd.

 

Now this isn't a normal bank account with a O/d, more like a variable loan.

[BLADES65]

I agree, as far as I can see it is a running credit account. BoS can call itr what they like but in essence it is credit.

 

In which case what is the validity of an application form without the CCA 1974 statement in the signature box, or anywhere else for that matter.

 

Bump

[patrickq1]

also creditcare or is that another term for ppi

 

if you could can you expand the terms concerning the right to process data

[BLADES65]

Hi Patrick,

 

Creditcare is indeed PPI although I cannot remember asking for this.

 

The terms at the top are:

 

The information supplied in the application form will be used by us for assessing your application for credit by a process know as ‘Credit Scoring’ and this information and information relating to your Agreement will be held by us in our computer records. We may disclose information to Credit Reference Agencies where it may be used by us and others in assessing you for credit in the future. The information held by us may be used to offer you new services which we think might be of interest to you and may be disclosed to companies in the Bank of Scotland Group and to others from time to time for this and other purposes subject to the provisions of the Data Protection Act 1984. If you do not want your information to be used for marketing purposes please inform us in writing at Marketing Department, NWS BANK plc NWS House, City Road, Chester CH99 3AN

Thanks for your help.

 

bump

[Curlyben]

Looking at the statement it reminds me of an HFC flexible loan I had a few years back.

That certainly was covered by CCA s78.

[Peterbard]

HI

 

Looks like a current account with an overdraft facility.

If this is the caee the main account wil not be covered by the cca *it will be regulated by the FSA) but the overdraft being a running credit agreement will, as per section 74 of the act.

Unfortunately due to section 73 and a ruling made by the oft an overdraft does not have to conform to section V on the Act which is the one that stipulates form and content of an agreement, so since no agreement exists for the oferdraft you can not use section 78 to request one.

IN short IMO the main agreement is not subject to the CCA

 

Best regards

Peter

[BLADES65]

Thanks Peter,

 

I am really confused by this, the facility is clearly intended to be credit and not a current account.

 

If memory serves me right the Preference Account came with a Loan we had with NWS, which became Capital Bank.

The other people who have made reference to the Preference Account have all said it came with or in conjunction with a Loan. Later application forms were a combination of the Loan details and the Preference account all in one document. The application form consisted of 2 places to sign, one for the Loan under the CCA 1974 and another for the Preference account with no CCA statement.

 

My application was on a seperate page to the loan docs.

 

 

My understanding of a current account is that you make deposits to it and may or may not have an overdraft facility.

 

I should point out that in all the correspondence from BoS they do call it a Credit Agreement.

 

I do have charges to reclaim and also the PPI (Creditcare) which i did not request.

 

What is the best way forward especially bearing in mind if it is a current account as you suggest they does this fall under the current waiver on bank charges.

 

Thanks for your help

[patrickq1]

well there goes your right to data protection,this should not be allowed into ther contract in my opinion,why should you have to write to them to stop processing your data,also the use of credit agencies can also as far as they are concerned been given permission to use third parties

thanks blade as you can see my concern is THE DPA this is the responsibility of the ICO AND OFT to have these offensive parts removed from contracts,if they wish they can send you a data protection form a week after the contract commences otherwise it is unfair

[Peterbard]

HI

It is a bit confusing i know

The information you gave says this is a cheque account with the extra etc.

This would suggest to me that it was a current account and this would be the principle account for this agreement .The extra facility would be for running credit which i presume they would class as an overdraft. This is confirmed later on in your posting. An overdraft, being a running credit arrangement are regualted by the cca but because of them being subject to sction 73 of the act there does not have to be a sepperate agreement for it.

Best regards

Peter

[Peterbard]

HI

Sorry missed the last part of your posting.

The PPI should have been contained within a sepperate agreement if it was mandatory it should appear in your t and Cs and form part of your TCC and in turn reflect upon your APR i would ned to see the terms.

As far as any claim for bank charges are concerned the current advice is that you proceed as normal but this will IMO be put on hold untill the current legal dispute is resolved.

 

If you want ot e-mail me your t and cs my adress is

peter.bardsley@btinternet.com

Regards

Peter

[BLADES65]

Thanks again Peter,

 

Just looking at it again it quite clearly is a running credit account. There is no reference to you being able to make deposits and have a credit balance. Also i do not know of any other 'current account' that requests monthly minimum payments and applied penalties if the minimum payment is not met.

 

The statement is almost identical to a credit card statement.

 

I understand the points you are making in regards a current account with overdraft but this acccount is clearly just to provide credit to the customer wrapped up in the title of a 'current account'.

 

My main question is why they should do this and not just call it a credit account.

 

Also if it does not fall within the CCA would the fact that they have not signed the agreement be irrelevant to it's enforceability.

 

PS. Email sent.

[Peterbard]

Hi

Your original posting says

"A monthly statement details all transactions and confirms your authorised overdraft limit while showing the amount you still have available to spend."

 

This would indicate to me that this was a current account.

 

An overdraft is a runing credit account within a current account, if ithe main account is not covered by the cca it cannot be enforceable or unenforceable by it.

You could argue the enforceability of it as a contract but you could not use regulation set in the CCA to suport your case.

 

Best regards

Peter

[BLADES65]

Hi

Your original posting says

"A monthly statement details all transactions and confirms your authorised overdraft limit while showing the amount you still have available to spend."

 

This would indicate to me that this was a current account.

 

An overdraft is a runing credit account within a current account, if ithe main account is not covered by the cca it cannot be enforceable or unenforceable by it.

You could argue the enforceability of it as a contract but you could not use regulation set in the CCA to suport your case.

 

Best regards

Peter

 

Hi again Peter,

 

That paragraph is from the BoS website, they are not my words. Sorry if I did not make that clear.

 

Putting to one side the argument that this is a credit account, I do have charges to reclaim and I think i have stated that the I did not request PPI.

 

What would be the basis for reclaiming the PPI paid.

 

Regards

 

Blades

[rory32]

What would be the basis for reclaiming the PPI paid.

 

A lot of PPI is missold. If you were missold it you can claim it back plus interest. If you didn't know you had it it was definately missold. Some examples of misselling are shown below:

 

 

1 You were not in work or self employed at the time of sale

 

2 You were told that you had to take the PPI out at the same time as the loan or not at all

 

3 You were not asked whether you had any other insurance which would cover the loan

 

4 You were not told you could buy PPI elsewhere to cover the loan

 

5 You were sold a policy which had age restrictions which you fell outside of

 

6 You were led to believe that Payment Protection Insurance was compulsory

 

7 You were told that you would stand more chance of getting the loan if you took the Payment Protection Insurance

 

8 It was not explained to you that there were certain exclusions within the policy that could affect you

 

9 You were pressured into buying the PPI

 

10 You paid upfront for the PPI but it was not explained that there were some PPI policies where you could pay monthly

 

11 Your PPI was an upfront premium and you repaid the loan early and received no refund

 

12 You increased your loan and the PPI was increased automatically

 

13 The Terms & Conditions of the small print were not fully explained to you

 

 

PPI is relatively easy to reclaim as obviously it is a seperate matter from the test case, so I would treat the charges and the PPI as seperate matters. You may wish to reclaim the PPI first if you have to go to court.

[BLADES65]

As you can see from the Application Form, the PPI (Credit Care) was preprinted already with no option for accepting or declining.

 

No other documnets relating to the insurance were provided.

 

It was only after a while that I noticed the Creditcare on the statements and cancelled.

[rory32]

You may wish to have a loook at the PPI forum http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/ppi/

 

As previously posted I would treat the PPI and the penalty charges as seperate issues.

[Peterbard]

Hi again Peter,

 

That paragraph is from the BoS website, they are not my words. Sorry if I did not make that clear.

 

Putting to one side the argument that this is a credit account, I do have charges to reclaim and I think i have stated that the I did not request PPI.

 

What would be the basis for reclaiming the PPI paid.

 

Regards

 

Blades

 

Hi

Sorry i thought the paragraph referred to the agreement and was part of their sales bumf.

 

Regards

Peter

[Peterbard]

HI Blades

Just

had a look at your T and c;s and to me it still looks like a current account ,it mentions the agreed overdraft on there a few times and is very careful not to call the card a credit card but a check garantee or switch card which of course are debit cards.

They also mention the charges made if your account is overdrawn which would infer that it is possible to have your account in credit.

 

I would agree that this may be a clever way of trying to get out of any restrictions placed on them by the CCA by using the73 directive to preclude them from having a correctly executed agreement i am sure that if you could show that the running account part of the agreement was in fact the main part and no elements of a current account existed you could say this is a credit account and as such has to be regulated by the cca, but looking at how carefuly they have worded the T and cs you might have your work cut out

 

Section 25 of our T and cs says "If you have elected creditcare insurance" so it seems that in theory you should have been given the option.

This means there should be a sepperate section signed by you together with credit details for the premium and a cash price alternative payment method.

 

Best regards

Peter

[BLADES65]

Thanks Peter,

 

I agree that it is worded in parts to make it look like a current account and then in others contradicts itself by using the term 'credit' as in the Data Protection Act section.

 

As an aside why would they want to avoid regulation under the CCA 1974?

 

How would I go about wording a request for reclaiming the PPI

 

Thanks again

 

Blades

[Peterbard]

Thanks Peter,

 

I agree that it is worded in parts to make it look like a current account and then in others contradicts itself by using the term 'credit' as in the Data Protection Act section.

 

As an aside why would they want to avoid regulation under the CCA 1974?

 

How would I go about wording a request for reclaiming the PPI

 

Thanks again

 

Blades

 

Hi

The cca gives the consumer a large number of rights that the creditor would far rather they did not have to contend with, regarding default issues agreement teminatin rights secton 75 liability rights disclosuere of document rights not forgetting the righs given by sections 77 78 127 to make the agreement unenforceable then sections 106 113 i could go on.

 

Regarding your PPI as prevouslly said this is a well troden path by many on here and i would have a good read at the thread suggested.

If i were you i would use the amunition they have given you against them did you say you had a pre printed agreement that gave you no choice and then contradicting this you have t and Cs that say if you have chosen to take out they can't have it both ways.

 

Perhaps a letter saying under the terms of the agreement i should have been given the option of the creditcare insurance howeve,r as can be seen by the copy of my agreement i was not. Please refund all premiums taken from my acount without my consent together with the approriate interest or somethng like that.

 

Best regards

Peter

[BLADES65]

Thanks Peter,

 

I do have a default registered with the CRA's on this account. They alos supplie the agreement under my CCA vrequest. Does that suggest it is Credit.

 

Clutching at straws I know.

 

Regards

 

Blades

[Peterbard]

Hi

No affraid not as we know defaults can be registerred on all sorts of debts not just those regulated by the CCA thnk of moble phones or gas /electricity supiers etc.

THe issuance of a default notice is another one of the consumer protection devices of the good old CCA and another good reason why creditors hate it so much especially since the beefed up requirments of the cca 2006,sorry i must be tired i am rambling.

 

Best regards

Peter

[BLADES65]

My strategy is to claim for the PPI, charges. These make up over half of the outstanding balance so will offer a Full & Final of say 40% see if they bite. If not I'll continue with the reclaim.

 

Just one more question while claiming for charges and PPI is the accont in dispute?

 

Thanks for your help as always.

[rory32]

Just one more question while claiming for charges and PPI is the accont in dispute?

 

Yes as you are disputing the sum of money owed.