Wednesday vs Capital One

[wednesday1867]

What do we reckon to this

 

I thank you for you letter dated XX July.

 

Up until recently I have always had implicit faith in the Financial Industry and its practices, but recently my belief in the Financial Industry as been called into question, these new doubts bring me onto my complaints against Capital One.

 

Firstly, you state that you can “see” I accepted the Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) on XX XX XX, furthermore I accepted it in a phone call? But then you state you don’t have a recording of the call or any agreement I signed to accept the PPI. I don’t recall the phone conversation and I don’t recall accepting the PPI. So how can you “see” I accepted it? As there is no written agreement, I believe it was added to my account without my permission and I am entitled to a full refund of the premiums and associated interest levied against those premiums.

 

Secondly, the points I raised about the “agreement” you sent me. Unfortunately, the agreement you sent does not contain all the prescribed terms, also the prescribed terms must be on the signature document. The two pages you have sent me cannot be linked together so I cannot verify the document you have sent as complying with section 60 of the Consumer Credit Act 1977. I would think that a Judge would have trouble confirming this too. Therefore, the agreement you have supplied me with is unenforceable.

 

Further, a prospective agreement cannot be made and then sent to be credit scored.

 

Furthermore, you should remember that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and therefore the following applies:

· You may not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

 

· You may not add any further interest or charges to this account.

 

· You may not pass this account to any third party.

 

· You may not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies.

 

So as you can see, you are unable to pass this account to anyone, never mind a Debt Collection agency as you stated in your last letter. You also gave an up to date balance of £X,XXX. As this account is still in dispute, you cannot add charges or interest. I have said all along, I will and have no problem in recommencing payments to Capital One when you supply me with a copy of my agreement that fully complies with the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

I have highlighted the date, is it 1977 or should it be 1974?

 

Thanks any views much appreciated

[surprise]

yes, typo by me. Did you do a SAR. If so, you could check on the screens and refer to them to see if there is any mention. If there isn't challenge them by referring to the screens in your possession and saying you are obviously telling lies regarding PPI and you will challenge them in court if necessary for them to provide the necessary signed declaration that you accepted PPI.

 

I was just doing my daughter's Cap One. I gave them until yesterday to write off or I would submit claim for all interest and charges, was just in the middle of typing this up. So will get back to it.

good luck with yours.

[wednesday1867]

Cant see anything in the screenshots they sent me......

 

Your daughters, are you filing a court claim to get a judgement that that the agreement in unenforcable, then go on to reclaim the interest?

 

Im filing something similar in the next 2 days against MBNA, im having a bit of bother with item (g) on my POC, if you think you could help its here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/104386-mbna-no-cca-gimme.html

 

Thanks

 

 

Good luck with your daughters claim

[surprise]

What I've done is worked out what she's paid in interest and charges done a spreadsheet, sending it to Capital one and giving them 10 days to reconsider writing off the debt or me taking it to court. See what they say. We're quite happy for them just to write the debt off without the hazzle, we will see.

[surprise]

Oh, they sent her 3 application forms, no question about it being unenforceable. It was a pre-approved application form. So they've really got hobson's choice.

[wednesday1867]

How we all Doing?

 

Surprise how are you getting on with Citi?

 

This is just an update, it kind of gives me the impression i'm we are getting somewhere it reads as such.

 

Youve again questioned your credit agreement which you believe is unenforcable. The information we sent you on XX XXXX is the agreement you signed when opening the account and is enforcable. Althought we've stopped adding interest and charges to your balance, you are still required to maintain payments as your balance consists of transactions you've made. Should you fail to keep to the payment plan we've agreed, further action maybe taken

 

They go on to say this is their final response.

 

What best way of moving on from here?

 

Thanks for any help

[surprise]

Wednesday, I asked CapOne to right my daughter's balance off at £475 and they wouldn't so I went back and worked out all the interest and charges and it has come to £600 and then I've sent it off to FOS to deal with. Regards Citi, never had a reply to my letter but did have a phone call on Saturday and they asked me what I was doing about payment and I said nothing as they were in default. We had a long conversation in which she said that charges and interest were still being applied and I said I would write and explain how they are breaking the law as they couldn't enforce an agreement if it didn't exist. I did this yesterday, so wait and see time again.

 

If you are happy to go the Court route with Cap One, otherwise FOS.

[wednesday1867]

I dont mind going to court, ive already started Court proceedings against HSBC for a loan with no agreement, im starting court with MBNA at end of month, for no agreement and refund interest.

 

If i go to Court, im not too interested in reclaiming any monies, id just want the the balance written off and the account removed from the credit reference agencies.

[surprise]

You've got no chance of getting it removed. I've tried with others and many others on the site have. I think the best bet would be to do the same as me with my daughter do a spreadsheet with all charges and interest on plus contractural interest my daughter's was 30%. Send them another letter with the revised charges pointing out that as the agreement is unenforceable you will be reclaiming all interest and charges. Then give them a further 10 days in which to give you a final answer then pass to the FOS. That way they will have to pay £400 and you won't have to do all the extra work as you will probably have enough on your plate with the other court cases. The choice is yours basically.

[wednesday1867]

Your not wrong about the extra work

 

Im not bothered about going after the interest, im doing that already, like you said, would prefer a straight forward case, may include charges tho

 

They said in this last letter that it was their final response, so can i go to FOS now?

 

If i can i would need some help, as i have no idea where to start

[surprise]

Yes, once they have given their final response. You need to make sure that the total amount of your claim is comparable to a write off.

[wednesday1867]

The charges are about £250 including compounded interest, balance is about £1500. Not sure how much interest there is, probably equate to about £500-£600.

 

Ill have a look and work it out

[wednesday1867]

Update

 

I let this slip, when the letter dried up, over the last few weeks, it has started back up.

 

Cap One have defaulted me, they have said the account isnt in dispute as this is something they dont do:confused:

 

They are still standing by the fact that they believe the agreement they sent me is enforcable.

 

I have now received their final response,so this weekend will be sorting out a complaint to FOS.

 

This is the first attempt at wording a complaint.

 

I sent Capital One a legal request to supply me with a copy of my true executed agreement on 25th June 2007 under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act. The agreement Capital One supplied me, doest comply with the Consumer Credit Act 1974 which it is regulated by. I received a signed pre contractual application/ agreement with a copy of the most recent terms and conditions. Section 61 of the Consumer Credit Act says a regulated agreement is not executed unless it contains all the prescribed terms, as you can see the signed document contains no terms and there is no way of associating the terms supplied are the terms to my agreement. I believe thise alone makes my agreement unenforcable, which draws me to my next complaint. Capital One have recently defaulted my account, which i believe should be removed as this account is in dispute up until such time a true executed agreement is supplied for this account.

 

Id gladly accpet any tip on how to make it better.

 

Thanks

[surprise]

You need to go on to the FOS Website there is a complaint form, you can complete online and either email or post. You need also to send all copies of correspondence.

[wednesday1867]

Good to see your still about Surprise , i've been to the website and was half way through filling it, but i dont feel im doing it justice i will be posting it Monday with a letter to Cap One, letting them know that even tho they don't put accounts into dispute, this one is and will be until the FOS reach a decision.

[surprise]

You will need to fill it in otherwise it just delays matters. FOS will send you one to complete in the post so worth taking the time and trouble to start with. I've finished with Cap One, I did OK - it finished up they owed me more than I owed then and I got the default removed via FOS.

[wednesday1867]

I will be posting it to FOS on Monday, just feel i need to re word it better.

 

Congrats on your win

[wednesday1867]

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and therefore the following applies:

• You may not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
  
• You may not add any further interest or charges to this account.
  
• You may not pass this account to any third party.
  
• You may not register any further information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies.
  
• You must remove any default notice you have placed on my credit file.

 

Surprise is this in the CCA or in one of the updates of it? Id like to quote it, but dont know where its from

[surprise]

I'm not sure what section its from but it is right. It was given to me in a letter from the site from one of the Site Helpers but can't remember which one.

[wednesday1867]

oops

Edited September 20, 2008 by wednesday1867
wrong thread

[wednesday1867]

Well i'm back on again with Cap One.

 

Today i received a letter informing me that Cap One have sold my alleged debt to someone called Lowell Portfolio Ltd, what are they like, any knowledge of them?

 

Anyway, im gonna pop a quick letter in the post to them, letting them know they have purchased an unenforcable debt.

 

Im also gonna send a pre lim for my charges and default removal to Cap One, its only just over £100, but more importantly, the removal of the default.

[wednesday1867]

Well i wrote to Lowell regarding the agreement or lack of enforcable agreement.

 

Their reply goes along the lines of " i requested documentation under CCA section 78, they forwarded the required documentation to my address"

 

"Whilst they appreciate that i feel this documentation is insufficient to comply with their obligition, Cap One feel this isnt the case. In light of this information they will continue to pursue the outstanding balance".

 

So obviously as far as im aware the agreement is unenforcable and they cant enforce it and pursue it.

 

Im struggling how to respond, so im thinking of something along the lines of.

 

Thanks for your recent correspondance regarding Cap Ones obligation under s78 of the CCA.

 

The agreement is unenforcable for .................(all these reasons)...............

 

Then i get stuck on telling them they can go whistle and if they want to pursue they will have to take me to court Do i just say i dont acknowledge any debt to them up until such time an enforcable agreement is supplied?

 

Ere i dunno

[willtheywontthey]

I am pretty sure Lowells have a very very bad reputation for this sort of thing. Do a search for them.

 

Can any amount of penalty charges substantiate a default removal?