Reclamation v Abbey

[pugsley]

you can send a preliminary letter with the amount in charges you have found already and update the schedule of charges at LBA stage later.

[reclamationproclamation]

I opened a step account with NatWest the other day and I have an account with abbey and a smile student account too, I did this online, the account is quite basic but you can pay bills with it and you get a debit card and can set up direct debits.

 

The info commissioner did visit abbey last week and we are waiting on here for an anaylsis of the recall system (which abbey use to microfiche old statements/info erc )and whether it should definately under the data protection act., which we all of course think it should.

 

Cheers,

 

Interesting stuff regarding the visit...

 

Another interesting thing is I managed to get abbey to refund all the recent charges mentioned above as soon as they were taken out of my account. The guys at 'Debt Management Operations' at Abbey were quite understanding. I try not be cynical but maybe they realise I'm getting it back one way or another.

[pugsley]

lucky you all my charges are old so I cannot even estimate!

[reclamationproclamation]

Just a matter of time though...

 

I don't suppose there is a thread regarding the visit to Abbey information commissioner's visit?

[pugsley]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/campaign/24002-information-commissioners-office-2.html#post235243

[reclamationproclamation]

Thanks

[pugsley]

glenn just updated on this issue in dazzo's thread `confused with micro'

[reclamationproclamation]

They seem to be dragging their heels a little with their announcement...

[reclamationproclamation]

In My complaint to the information commissioner I have described the correspondence between myself and Abbey and enclosed copies of this. However I need to finish this part

 

"...given that Abbey has failed to comply with my request and therefore not complied with its obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998 I am making this complaint to you the information commisioners office. Abbey has refused my subject access request for all the information I have requested claiming that it is stored on microfiche and therefore not subject to the Data Protection Act 1998. I feel that this is a delaying tactic in order to stall my claim against Abbey by refusing to provide me with the data it is obligated by the Data Protection Act 1998 to disclose."

 

I want to finish with my reason for believing that Abbey's microfiche argument is false and the the data is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 but I don't know exactly what to say...

 

Could someone PLEASE help.

 

Thanks

[reclamationproclamation]

On the calculation spreadsheet do I need to include bank charges that have been subsequently returned when I phoned up? Perhaps a silly question as they have been returned, I just wondered if I needed to show charges that were returned on the spreadsheet.

 

Cheers

[devillish]

To reclamationproclamation:

 

I work for abbey in the banking centre and have been reading your posts from the start of your issues. Although Abbey are a good bank for most things their attitude towards charges are ridiculous.

Although, a few things have changes recently in the banking centre which you can use to your advantage:

1) If you Call through on 08459724724 and get an indian call centre, you simply need to say you are calling regarding charges and you will be put though to a charge specialist in either Glasgow or Sheffield

2) Charge specialists have the authority to refund up to £500 in charges as they see fit without the matter going any further. This is abbeys atempt to protect themselves from the stir that is happening.

 

I also have some advise for you. Instead of asking the bank for a subject access request and fighting them in that corner...you should call the banking centre and talk with a charge specialist. Remember you are dealing with someone who is well trained in banking and will use their discretion when making decisions. If you go on the phone ranting and raving about how they have broken the law with charges and the DPA then you will do nothing apart from get the advisors back up, making them less inclined to help you (beacuse at the end of the day they can decide to say you are getting nothing).

All charge specialists (of which I am one) will appreciate the difficulties of being a student and provided you can give them the belief that you will do everything in your power to not encur any more charges; they can justify refunding your charges in an effort to give you a clean slate. THey will also give you adbise on how to avoid future charges.

Abbey are not a mean bank and I have seen them being very fiar on a lot of issues with a lot of customers. It is all about how you approach the issue. After all, it is human nature to fight when someone fights you, and to negotiate when someone is willing to negotiate. If it was me that took your call I would most definitely help you and I know that my coleagues would do too....remeber though, be nice when dealing with call centre staff because they have the power to help you without the complaint going further, and the power to deline your request. Just make sure it is a charge specialist you talk to and not 1) a member of the Customer Relationship Team or 2) a normal advisor (as theire decisions are authorised by CRT)

If you get straight through to the UK ask if you are speaking to charge specialist. If you are not then ask to be put back to the main menu. It sounds strange but you do want to be put thought to India. As i said earlier that if you say you wish to discuss charges on your account then India will put you though to a charge specialist (or arrange for a specialist to call youback if the lines are busy - and you WILL get call back)

Now onto complaints...

If you do not get a satisfatory resolution from the banking centre then the advisor will stalemate your call and you will begin the complaints process. A stalemate simply means that they will send you a letter detailing the conversation you had with the advisor or charge specialist complete with a complaint refernece number. The letter will ask you to write to an address on the letter which is the complaints department. In my experience these guys will revers and refund what you want to stop the complaint from escalating (it can cost abbey up to £6k per customer for complaints that reach the ombudsman...and thats just in admin and HR costs). If you do not get a saisfacory resloution within 4 weeks of your original complaint (which was your phone call) you can then take your complaint to theombudsman. The thing about the ombudsman is that they often are not willing to get involved in a complaint unless you have been though the official complaints procedures in the bank in question (good 'ol shabbey in this case). SO because you calledthen wrote and dealt with each business level in turn the ombudsman will in turn be more willing to not only help you...but get you what you want - yourmoney back that is rightfully yours.

 

Remember....do not underestimate the power of Abbeys Call banking centre advisors and Charge speacialists. The specialists can help you with out authoisations, and if you convince an advisor to help you, or simply make them want to by being nice and respecting them, then they can heaviliy influence a managers decision on charges.

 

I hope this helps and hope my boss doesnt read this thread.

 

Any questions let me know

[reclamationproclamation]

Thanks for the advice I appreciate it

[reclamationproclamation]

Having sent Abbey my prelim approach letter I have received this:

 

Dear Mr ******************

 

Thankyou for your letter dated 23rd October 2006 about you bank charges. I am sorry you feel these contavene Common Law, statute and recent consumer regulations.

 

Having carried out a full investigation, I can assure you the charges do not contravene those regualtions and therefore I cannot agrre to refund all of them. However, as a gesture of goodwill, I am happy to refund £150.

 

The regulations say that we must explain our charges in plain language and that we have to act in good faith, which, according to the Office of Fair Trading, means dealing fairly and openly with customers.

 

I there reviewed the literature and information you received when you opened your account, including the terms and conditions. This explains that charges will be applied if you do not keep to the terms of the account. Because of this, I believe we have been fair and open in telling you about them. The xharges were correct, because you did not have enough money in your account to cover payments requested from it.

 

I am confident I have been fair and have taken into account all the points you made in your letter, but if you have any additional points that you would like to discuss with me, please call me on 0845 600 6014. I have enclosed a leaflet about the Financial Ombudsman Service, in case you are not happy with my investigation or decision. If so, you should contact them within six months of the date of this letter, enclosing a copy of it, as they would need this for theor investigation.

 

I hope we can work together to help you avoid the charges in future. Little things can help, like checking your account balance as often as possible and looking at the dates of direct debits to make sure they are taken shortly after money is paid in.

 

In addition we might be able to help by providing an increased overdraft facility to give you more flexibility. this could help keep your costs down, as there are no charges unless you exceed you overdraft limit. So, if you would like to talk to someone about the options available, please call our Telephone Banking Centre on 08459 724 724. Alternatively, if you think you might need longer-term help to manage you bank account, please call 08459 603 9035 and we'll be happy to help.

 

 

Yours Sincerely...

 

I'm guessing this is their standard letter but typed it out anyway. On monday I will send the LBA but obviously ammend it as I they have actually replied to me.

 

I'm worried they will just pay the £150 into my account without notice. Do I need to accept this and claim for the rest or reject it and demand the whole amount?

 

Also I am not claiming interest incurred while I was overdrawn as it would be a hassle for a VERY small amount. Does this mean I can't charge the 8% apr when filing a claim? and am I right in thinking that I don't include the 8% in the LBA cheers.

 

Thanks for your help

[reclamationproclamation]

*bump*

[Lula]

Hi, you can still claim the 8% even though you are not claiming the other interest, and you dont include the interest until N1 stag. Hopethis helps

[reclamationproclamation]

Thankyou.

 

As to my other question, I looked at my account today and see that the 150 has been put in without my permission to the bank. Do I ask them to take it out or simply file my claim for the rest.

 

Cheers

[reclamationproclamation]

I phoned them and the call centre worker tried to tell me that the notes on the computer system were telling her that my letter (template prelim letter) said that I would accept the offer of 150 and since they have paid it the complaint is closed. I told them to expect the LBS.

 

Strange since the offer of 150 was in response to the prelim letter.

[reclamationproclamation]

I gave my Landlord a post dated cheque for the 17th and told him not to cash it until then, however he cashed it and this has taken over my limit again but also this means the 150 paid into my account by abbey has been used which i guess they will say means I have accpeted it.

 

Does this mean I can no longer proceed with my claim?

[reclamationproclamation]

*bump*

[Lula]

no it doesnt, just send them a letter accepting this as part payment and go on with the rest

[reclamationproclamation]

Ok thanks Lula.

[reclamationproclamation]

Does this letter look ok to send as acceptance of the part payment.

 

 

 

Dear Mr McVeigh,

 

Thank you for your letter dated 8th November 2006 regarding your investigation into my request for the refund of bank charges applied to my account and the offer of a refund of £150.

 

My request was for the refund of all the bank charges relating to my account since 10/08/2001, in total £588. I accept the payment of £150 as part payment and require the payment of the remainder of the charges in full, in total £438.

 

Therefore I can confirm that I will be proceeding with my claim and issuing Abbey with a LBA (Letter Before Action). Upon receiving the LBA you will have 14 days in which to refund the remainder of the total in full after which I will begin a claim against Abbey in the county court.

 

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

[Lula]

That looks fine, however, please edit your posting to take off your address, you never know who is watching LOL and also, check that the money hasnt been taken out again before you file the N1

 

Hope this helps

[reclamationproclamation]

Thanks again Lula

 

Can you still see my address? I thought I took it off...

[reclamationproclamation]

lol cheers, slapping my name and address all accross the net for all to see probably not the best move.

 

That was quite quick though, does the software for the forum alert you somehow if an address is posted?