no credit agreement..wot now???

[trojanska]

I requested my credit agreement from Littlewoods months ago,a lady from the Directors Office has written and told me that they do not have a credit agreement for me,this I have written to the oft and trading standards and reported.Littlewoods say ..although we are unable to supply a signed and dated credit agreement,there is clear evidence of an existing credit based relationship between ourselves.They have now passed my debt to nationwide debt recovery,but i did`nt think they could do that without the credit agreement and the account being in dispute......i`m slowly going into melt-down. They have`nt credited me the charges of £45 that they have added,I argued that without the credit agreement,how do you know what charges to add as nobody knows what i agreed to.OOOOOhh heck,what can they do without a credit agreement?Please help xx:sad:

[powelll]

What have Trading Standards said? Essentially where there is no CCA regulated agreement & they cannot comply with the CCA regs on this the debt is unenforceable & they are committing a criminal offence by not supplying you with the requested info. I would usually take it up wuth Trading Stds at this point to be honest.

 

Best of luck

[trojanska]

thanks for the reply,much appreciated,trading standards are investigating and i`m now sending them the letters from the debt collectors:) thanks again,take carexx:)

[powelll]

No problem

[redsue]

You could send them another letter and quote some guidelines from the OFT - I found them elsewhere on the site and can't remember where but thanks to that person anyway

 

I refer to The Office of Fair Trading Debt collection guidance document Final guidance on unfair business practices July 2003 (updated December 2006) which states that unfair business pracices include:

 

· ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

· failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued

 

· not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.

 

· applying unreasonable charges, for example, charges not based on actual and necessary costs

 

· applying charges which are disproportionate to the main debt

 

· leaving out or presenting information in such a way that it creates a false or misleading impression or exploits debtors' lack of knowledge

 

· asking or instructing debtors to make contact on premium rate telephone numbers

 

· falsely implying or stating that action can or will be taken when it legally cannot

 

· putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive.

 

· passing on debtor details to debt management companies without the debtors' informed prior consent

 

· misleading debtors into believing they are legally liable to pay collection charges when this is not the case

 

also some parts of the Data Protection Act

 

Section 10 Data Protection Act 1998

If an individual believes that a data controller is processing personal data in a way that causes, or is likely to cause, substantial unwarranted damage or distress to them or to another person, section 10 of the Data Protection Act gives the individual the right to send a notice to the data controller requiring him to stop the processing within a reasonable time.

 

Section 13 Data Protection Act 1998

An individual who suffers damage by reason of any contravention by a data controller of any of the requirements of this Act is entitled to compensation from the data controller for that damage.

 

also an email from the OFT outlining the Consumer Credit Act 1974

outlining sec77-79.

 

A ‘true copy’ of an agreement principally consists of the terms and conditions of the agreement and the statutory content of the agreement. The name, address and signature of the debtor do not have to be provided. Additionally, the creditor must supply the total sum paid under the agreement by the debtor; the total sum which has become payable under the agreement but remains unpaid; and the total sum which is to become payable under the agreement by the debtor (the latter two must include the various amounts comprised in that total sum and the date when each is/was due). However, the copy must be a copy. It need not be exact on immaterial points, but it cannot be a conjectured reconstruction. If the trader has no original copy, the trader will have difficulty showing that he has complied with the regulation by supplying a ‘true copy’, since nobody would know what was in the original. When the trader comes to enforce the debt in court, he needs to have a signed copy of the agreement in order to enforce. As the law stands currently he cannot otherwise.

 

We note your concerns that in the absence of a copy of the original agreement someone's liability for a debt can only lead to further query. However in circumstances like this we would view it is as unfair practice under section 25(2) (d) of the Act and relevant to licence fitness if a trader failed to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate when a debt is queried or disputed.

 

they are telling porky pies - let us know how you get on

[trojanska]

Thank you soooo much, so here i`ve been wollowing in my own self-pity,when they`ve been taking me for a ride!!!will let u now how i get on:) Thanks again,really has helped,take care xx

[redsue]

no probs, thanks for the click! We just have to let them know we're on the ball - even if they're not!

[IIIUMINATI]

I would not correspond any further.

It is not your job to explain the law.

You may also create problems for Trading standards

Sit back to many letters confuses the matter.

I sar`d them Jan usual letters £5 for a copy of an application nothing since. I let TS do the work, a letter from them is very serious for Link as

TS issues the license. No license no company.

[yaffsimone1]

Firstly NDR are a dormant company which means they cannot have accounting records and they are an in-house DCA i wouldn't worry about them.

 

I had Littlewoods chasing me for a debt of £126.00 i have CCA'd them and they returned to me a blank agreement, they have now commited a criminal offence, reported them to OFT, ICO, FOS and TS. They will soon be getting a summons for the charges. The charges come to more than the amount they say i owe!

 

They are more than aware of their legal obligations its not your job to keep reminding them. Sit back and relax, it will be time to take them to court soon, which they will settle out of court.

[trojanska]

you will think i`m a right dim mare!!What do the ICO and FOS do?:? ittlewoods had previously sent me a blank agreement but I told them i needed the real thing,which as i have said they now tell me they have`nt got.Thanks for taking the time to help,take care xx:)

[yaffsimone1]

ICO are a 'body' that you complain to when companies have processed your information wthout your consent i.e putting info on your credit file. You have not signed an agreement that allows them to do this, serious breach of the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

FOS (Financial Ombudsmen Service) you complain to these guys along with complaing to OFT

[yaffsimone1]

This is what i sent to Littlewoods:-

 

I wrote to you on the 27 March 2007 requesting a true, signed copy of any credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account (see enclosed).This is my right under Sections 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 on payment of the statutory fee of £1.00. This payment was included with my original request.

 

Under the terms of the above Act, a creditor has 12 working days to provide the requested document. Should they fail to do this, they have a further calendar month to rectify this default. Failure to comply within these timescales is a criminal offence.

 

Both of these deadlines have now passed and I have received nothing in relation to my request apart from being pursued by your dormant debt collection agencies GCC and Nationwide Debt Recovery. This can lead me to only one conclusion, that being that no signed credit agreement exists in relation to this account.

 

As I am sure you are aware, an agreement that does not contain all of the prescribed terms, and/or is not signed by the debtor, is completely unenforceable, even in a court of law. This will be a complete defence to any court action that you may consider taking.

 

On the advice of the Financial Ombudsman, I am now requesting a final decision in this matter from you. Should this decision not meet with my satisfaction, then I will pursue the matter through the Ombudsman. The maximum timescale for you to give a final response to any complaint is 8 weeks. This time runs from the date of my original complaint, in this case that is the request for a true copy of the credit agreement. Therefore, you must provide me with a final response in this matter, including your proposed actions for this account, by 22 May 2007

 

Please note, you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with the credit reference agencies. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’, you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Under the Data Protection Act I have principled rights in that

 

 

(Schedule I)

 

1. Personal data shall be processed fairly and lawfully

2. Personal data shall be obtained only for one or more specified and lawful purposes, and shall not be further processed in any manner incompatible with that purpose or those purposes

 

(Schedule II)

 

1. The subject has given his consent.

2. The processing is necessary

a. For the performance of a contract to which the data subject is a party.

 

The fact that you cannot provide me with a copy of the agreement negates any Notice of Default being served on me, as required by the conditions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Incidentally, I cannot recollect receipt of the said documentation. If the documentation were to be produced as you are aware the default notice cancels any original terms and conditions and as such cancels any right to share my information without my consent.There has never been any regulated agreement in relation to this account, and therefore you have never had my consent to process my data. I also do not see how you can state that you have a legitimate interest in processing my data as we have never had any contract that would enable you to do this.

 

Should you fail to respond within 21 days, I will expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore, you should remember that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and therefore the following applies:

• You may not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
  
• You may not add any further interest or charges to this account.
  
• You may not pass this account to any third party.
  
• You may not register any further information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies.
  
• You must remove the default notice you have placed on my credit file.

I look forward to your final decision on this complaint by 22 May 2007. This should include your proposed actions in relation to the lack of a credit agreement

 

 

 

You can use it if need be and adjust it to suit(These fonts are all over the place today):?

[trojanska]

where do you learn to write like that,that`s amazing!!! If they`re admitting to not having a credit agreement will trading standards "pull them up"?should i be writing to the financial ombudsman at this point? take care xx

[yaffsimone1]

You will learn to write like that too! Thank you but I cannot take too much credit for that letter (if any), its bits a peices off CAG:D

 

As for trading standards i cannot answer that, i have sent a complaint tp TS with regards to MBNA for harrassment, non compliance etc. Got a letter back from trading standards this morning saying they cannot look into this case as they do not deal with individual consumer disputes:mad:

 

As for the FOS yes i have been firing them off left right and centre! You have just got to be persistant, when an offence has been committed one of the regulated bodies will have to do something about it.

 

Once you get on top of these idiots It all good fun and you learn so much;)

[babynan]

You will learn to write like that too! Thank you but I cannot take too much credit for that letter (if any), its bits a peices off CAG:D

 

As for trading standards i cannot answer that, i have sent a complaint tp TS with regards to MBNA for harrassment, non compliance etc. Got a letter back from trading standards this morning saying they cannot look into this case as they do not deal with individual consumer disputes:mad:

 

As for the FOS yes i have been firing them off left right and centre! You have just got to be persistant, when an offence has been committed one of the regulated bodies will have to do something about it.

 

Once you get on top of these idiots It all good fun and you learn so much;)

 

Hi Yaffsimone1, sorry for jumping in here, but I too am having problems with Littlewoods ( exactly the same sort of thing as Trojanska) and I am also impressed with your letter. I was wondering when you say about taking them to court, will you/have you issued a claim with the court, if you do/have will you be seeking the charges back that were put against your account, the reason that I ask this is that to date we have paid over 300.00 more that the price of the goods that were bought, and DC is asking for another 380.00, I did not get a proper CA (only a blank one) and also a default has been entered. Have written and stated that account is in dispute until a proper CA is produced but do not know where to go from here as I have not head anything back from either Littlewoods or DC since then. As well as maybe sending a letter like yours, could we ask for our charges back?? (have had all statements from Littlewoods) would appreciate any advice that you may be able to give please about what I should do now.

 

Hope you'll forgive me Trojanska for jumping in:)

[yaffsimone1]

Hi Yaffsimone1, sorry for jumping in here, but I too am having problems with Littlewoods ( exactly the same sort of thing as Trojanska) and I am also impressed with your letter. I was wondering when you say about taking them to court, will you/have you issued a claim with the court, if you do/have will you be seeking the charges back that were put against your account, the reason that I ask this is that to date we have paid over 300.00 more that the price of the goods that were bought, and DC is asking for another 380.00, I did not get a proper CA (only a blank one) and also a default has been entered. Have written and stated that account is in dispute until a proper CA is produced but do not know where to go from here as I have not head anything back from either Littlewoods or DC since then. As well as maybe sending a letter like yours, could we ask for our charges back?? (have had all statements from Littlewoods) would appreciate any advice that you may be able to give please about what I should do now.

 

Hope you'll forgive me Trojanska for jumping in:)

 

 

I would write to them first asking for charges back, if they do not comply send a 'letter before action' giving them one last chance, if they still ignore it say 'see you in court' and issue a claim

 

Yes I am issuing a claim to Littlewoods it is for Charges, Contractual Interest plus extra Interest under s.69 County Courts Act 1984 (currently 8% per annum) & Court Fee.

 

Once they have commited a criminal offence for non-compliance we have to look at getting all the information removed that they have given to the credit reference agencies but lets worry about that another day, one thing at a time!

 

All of this is a little basic i know, i'm the process of getting ready for a wedding reception. The what to wear dilemma:confused:

What i will do tommorrow is get some of my letters together that you can use and send them off on Monday.

 

Once the letters are sent, don't worry sit back and relax you are calling the shots now.

 

All here to help. x

[babynan]

I would write to them first asking for charges back, if they do not comply send a 'letter before action' giving them one last chance, if they still ignore it say 'see you in court' and issue a claim

 

Yes I am issuing a claim to Littlewoods it is for Charges, Contractual Interest plus extra Interest under s.69 County Courts Act 1984 (currently 8% per annum) & Court Fee.

 

Once they have commited a criminal offence for non-compliance we have to look at getting all the information removed that they have given to the credit reference agencies but lets worry about that another day, one thing at a time!

 

All of this is a little basic i know, i'm the process of getting ready for a wedding reception. The what to wear dilemma:confused:

What i will do tommorrow is get some of my letters together that you can use and send them off on Monday.

 

Once the letters are sent, don't worry sit back and relax you are calling the shots now.

 

All here to help. x

 

Yaffsimone1 , Thank you so much, This has really helped me understand which way to go first, I look forward to seeing, and being able to use/amend some of your letters, I really appreciate how helpful you are being, ( I am not very good at wording my letters, I tend to waffle on )

So once I start with the letters we will see what happens and then after claiming charges back etc we will address the issue of the default,

 

I hope that you managed to sort out what to wear to the wedding reception, that can be so tough at times, many times I have decided what to wear somewhere and lay it all out on the bed ready, then I decide that I am not really sure and add something else to the bed and this goes on and on till I end up with a pile on there the I usually end up wearing the first outfit:D lol

 

Anyway, hope that you enjoyed yourself

[yaffsimone1]

Back in the land of the living......Here is my letter to Littlewoods re. charges, this is one i sent before the LBA letter. Adjust it to suit:-

 

I understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to penalty charges are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

 

I calculate that you have taken £***** in late payments charges and £**** for Extra Care Advantage which i have not requested. Totalling £****. I am enclosing a copy of the schedule of the charges for which I am claiming

 

Additionally if you have entered a default notice against my credit record. This default occurred merely in respect of unlawful charges levied by you or was the result of impecuniosity caused directly by the taking by you of penalty charges which you had applied unlawfully to my account. In addition to full payment of the sum mentioned above I require that you remove the default entry from the register. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable.

 

I require repayment in full of this money by form of cheque and removal of the default notice. If you do not comply fully within 7 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus a claim under ss.7 and 13 of the Data Protection Act 1998 plus my costs and without further notice.

 

Furthermore, I shall submit a Consumer Credit Act 1974 complaint to the OFT upon the basis that you have failed to comply with the OFT's direction of 5 April 2006 and are therefore not a 'fit and proper person' to hold a consumer credit licence under the 1974 Act. If you do not understand what this means then seek advice from your legal department.

[babynan]

Yaffsimone1,

Once again thanks, I will amend and use this and then follow up with LBA.

I will let you know how I get on.

 

Be interested to know how you get on with your claim, Good Luck:D

 

Trojanska, thanks for your patience and allowing me to use your thread:)

[yaffsimone1]

Yaffsimone1,

Once again thanks, I will amend and use this and then follow up with LBA.

I will let you know how I get on.

 

Be interested to know how you get on with your claim, Good Luck:D

 

Trojanska, thanks for your patience and allowing me to use your thread:)

 

 

Trojanska & Babynan,

 

Will Keep you posted on my Littlewoods claim, let me know how you get on with yours. If you need any more help. Either post here or PM me.

 

[trojanska]

:-| i`m starting to panic now,i hent heard from either trading standards or littlewoods,does this mean something is going down??

[yaffsimone1]

:-| i`m starting to panic now,i hent heard from either trading standards or littlewoods,does this mean something is going down??

 

 

There is no need to panic, what can they do to you, nothing. I doubt if you will hear from Littlewoods and Trading Standards are so snowed under it will take about 6 weeks for them to reply. Thats from my experience with them!

 

Did you send that template letter off i posted? Littlewoods are not the fastest at replying thats if they do:rolleyes: Like you know they cannot enforce this debt, if they tried to take you to court which would be very stupid if they did they would still have to produce the original agreement to enforce it, which they dont. So dont worry

 

Ok so you owe them money offer to pay it back on your terms, i.e £1.00 per month with no added interest, they will either accept it or write the debt off. They CANNOT make you pay it back on their terms because there aren't any!

 

No news is good news

[powelll]

There is no need to panic, what can they do to you, nothing. I doubt if you will hear from Littlewoods and Trading Standards are so snowed under it will take about 6 weeks for them to reply. Thats from my experience with them!

 

Did you send that template letter off i posted? Littlewoods are not the fastest at replying thats if they do:rolleyes: Like you know they cannot enforce this debt, if they tried to take you to court which would be very stupid if they did they would still have to produce the original agreement to enforce it, which they dont. So dont worry

 

Ok so you owe them money offer to pay it back on your terms, i.e £1.00 per month with no added interest, they will either accept it or write the debt off. They CANNOT make you pay it back on their terms because there aren't any!

 

No news is good news

 

Agreed - just sit tight

[trojanska]

oooohhhhh i love you guys!!!!!!xxxxx

[trojanska]

i can get my claws back in this now,have been busy preparing for my sons statement review,that`s one headache over!! I received a letter from the FOS this morning saying they are now passing my complaint to their casework administration area to await allocation to an investigation team....is this a good sign or can it still be booted out?? And a lovely statement from NDR,it`s my normal littlewoods statement but under NDR,they have credited me £30 of my £45 charges,are they lulling me into a false sense of security? from the date on the statement our two letters must have crossed paths so i wait to see what happens next,still no sign from TS,take care everyone xx:)