tina9776 v LTSB

[GuidoT]

Yes you need to send a covering letter enclosing the draft order, see towards the end of this post:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/78873-new-after-28-days.html#post695176

[tina9776]

Thanks Guidot, I've done this now, you've been really helpful. I've enclosed a copy of the letter to the court and the draft order to SC&M too - wanted to let them see I mean business and I'm not going to drop it just because they've filed a defence. Was this the right thing to do? Excited and scared at the same time. If they accept the draft order, is the next thing I send the court bundle. Reading the thread you sent I think it is but would be very grateful if you could confirm.

Many thanks for everything, thank goodness for this site.

[GuidoT]

Yes if the judge accepts the order then essentially your have to prepare what is similar to a court bundle.

 

I see you have PMed me with a request for the documents, I will send it later once my email is back up.

[tina9776]

Thanks. Do I just sit tight now and wait until I hear from the court or should I give them a ring in, say, a week to chase them up. What do you think, I don't want to annoy them - just Lloyds!!!!

[GuidoT]

Wait say 3 weeks then telephone the court if you have heard nothing.

[tina9776]

Today is the day I can file for my husband's business online, however I need to be sure that the wording is correct. Could someone please point me in the direction of the business wording for particulars of claim. Also, should I start a separate thread for each claim? At the moment I have the following:

 

Joint account 9/10/01-9/2/07 £3,157.37 (inc interest and mcol fee)

Joint account 23/4/01-23/7/01 £324.77 (inc interest, LBA sent 7/6/07)

Personal account £150 (exc interest, inc mcol fee)

Business account £2,196.16 (inc interest, LBA sent 6/6/07)

 

How do I get more users to view my thread so I can make sure that it is not only Guidot who is helping me - feeling a bit guilty Guidot that I'm taking up too much of your time.

[tina9776]

On MCOL it asks whether claimant is an individual or an organisation. My husband is self employed so which one does he claim under.

[tina9776]

Sorry, bump, would like to get my MCOL done - it's a partnership - it definitely does not say anything about this on the business charges thread. Could someone please advise as to whether I should put it as individual or organisation - Partnership but not Limited and only my husband and myself.

Thanks.

[tina9776]

Guidot - did you get my email address that I sent you? Hope so. Would be very grateful if you could send me PDF of the bundle so that I am prepared. Thanks again for all your help.

[GuidoT]

Yes, I will send tomorrow, I am having some terrible email difficulties.

[Muffintop]

I seem to be pretty much at the same stage as you tina and can feel your fear cos I have it too, Im following your thread and pinching your feedback, where are you at right now with things? my thread skeggsy v lloyds. Did you write your do you want to settle prior to court letter? and did you lay your hands on the t and c's and if so where? help me to help you.... ha ha. skeggsy

[tina9776]

Hi skeggsy

No, I didn't write a do you want to settle letter as from reading various threads Lloyds never seem to reply and it simply prolongs things. I may be wrong so suggest you take advice from a Moderator. The only t&cs I have is a scanned copy. They are based on you and your Lloyds TSB Visa debit card. In 9.2 of the t&cs it says"If you do use your Card to create an overdraft we have not agreed or to exceed an agreed overdraft limit, you will have broken the terms of the Account and you must repay the unagreed amount immediately"

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but but saying that you have broken the terms of the account, they are saying that you have breached the terms of your contract as opposed to it being a fee for a service, surely?

[tina9776]

I got my court date through yesterday for the 10th September, small claims. It doesn't say anything about a court fee - will they ask for this nearer the time? I never had to do an AQ. The Judge has asked me to submit by 18th July the following:

a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount, and reasons given (if any) for that charge being made;

b) Copies of any statement or other document relied upon as showing that each and every charge has been made;

c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise;

d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

 

The defendant shall by 8 August 2007 file and serve a response to the Claimant's schedule, stating in respect of each item claimed;

a) Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, producing a copy of the contractual document relied upon;

b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not;

c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss, and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with the matter was;

d) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable;

e) Any witness statements;

f) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

 

Please, please could you help me with c) and d). I don't want to send too much or they won't bother to read it but I also don't want to leave important things out. I also don't have any Terms and Conditions - I tried to download the pdf format from the site but my computer wouldn't let me as it's blocked from work. Is there any chance at all that perhaps you could somehow send them to me.

I'm so sorry to ask all this but I'm scared that I'll be the one that does have to show up in court and I want to be sure I've got it right!!!

Also, is this a final hearing - I think it is as it's been allocated 90 minutes.

Thanks to anyone that can help me - Gary, any chance you could guide me through this?

Tina9776

[GuidoT]

That order is good news. Have a look at my thread, yours should follow the same pattern:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/47207-guido-t-lloyds-tsb.html

 

Additionally regarding c) and d) see here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/guidance-notes/64911-got-court-date-guide.html

 

Presently cannot help too much with terms, but post up a reminder in a few weeks and we should have more, but I have seen some here:

http://www.shadeofblue.co.uk/court_bundle_evidence.shtml

[Muffintop]

tina I feel for you and share your panic I am at a similar stage. Guidot, thanks for your assistance, I have printed off all the t and c's that I have found on this site and also the link you gave tina above, but Im confused why t and c's are so important as they seem to justify why the money has been taken, albeit I understand that it is disproportionate. I need to get my head around this so that I can put my case across properly to the judge. Hope I havent hijacked a thread here, just commenting on the above and will ask any q's via my own thread. Does Tina have to prepare her court bundle now? skeggsy

[granby]

the banks are now trying a new tack in their defense

they have changed their t&c's recently to try to disguise their penalty charges as a "fee for a service"

what you have asked for is a copy off the t&c's pertinent to when you opened your acc, then your argument goes:-

"but these are not the t&c's i agreed to and have no relevance to my claim"

 

you also have the UTCCR statement

"disguising/reconstructing these charges as a fee for a service"

or words to that effect

hope this helps

[Muffintop]

thanks, what is the UTCCR? lost in abbriviations. skeggsy

[zoeyarscott]

I have received my Court date which is a Directions Hearing for the 22nd August but it simply says to attend at the time and date specified it doesnt say anything about the filing documents or anything is this normal??? I havent had to file an AQ either?

[granby]

thanks, what is the UTCCR? lost in abbriviations. skeggsy

 

Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

[Muffintop]

whey hey tnx and what about UCTA'S AND SOGA?

[tina9776]

I have just got all my "evidence" together to send to the court and SC&M prior to court date of 10th September. Just want to make sure that I have enclosed the relevant stuff as it needs to be with the court by July 18th. Still not quite sure whether I'm supposed to include the whole bundle but I thought the more info the better. This is what I've included:

 

A schedule setting out each charge repayment which is sought.

 

Copies of statements showing that each and every charge has been made

 

Statement of Evidence

 

Early Day Motion 22/5/06

 

Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co v Ne Garage and Motor Co Ltd

 

Murray v Leisureplay Plc

 

Keating on Building Contracts

 

Lloyds TSB visa debit card letter valid from 31/4/04 stating that if I go over agreed overdraft "you will have broken the terms of the Account".

 

Copies of current account charges dated July 03 and October 04 in which is states "any unauthorised borrowing means extra work for us, we cover this by charging you the following fees".

 

Copy of current account charges dated May 05 in which the above wording has been changed to "please make sure you have enought cleared funds in your account"

 

OFT report, April 06

 

BBC transcript of interview with Peter McNamara

 

Press release and Australian Default charges report

 

Examples of charges already returned by Lloyds on the CAG site

 

The Unfair terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999

 

Example letter which states "recoup our costs"

 

BBC News: The Money Programme bank commission 11/12/06

 

Correspondence with Lloyds since initial request for bank statements

 

It is so important that I get this right, so could someone please confirm that I have included what I should have done and whether I should not include any of the above.

I'd like to get my bundle sent recorded delivery today as I am off on holiday on Friday, so any advice would be gratefully received asap.

Many thanks.

[GaryH]

Thats fine. More than enough in fact.

[GuidoT]

Need to enclose some T&Cs as my post 42 and or (I have not looked at this link properly):

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/101412-document-library-work-progress.html

 

You should post on here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/103945-lloyds-court-dates.html

[tina9776]

Hi there, I am also claiming on a business account but am very unsure of what I can and cannot include in the bundle. I also have no terms and conditions for the business account. Could someone please help?

Tina

[tina9776]

GuidoT, try not to faint but I have already posted on the Lloyds court dates, you see - I'm learning!!!

Quick question, Lloyds have until 8th August to serve a response to my schedule in which they have to state in respect of each item claimed:

a) Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, producing a copy of the contractual document relied upon:

b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not;

c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss, and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to what the tru cost of dealing with the matter was;

e) Any witness statements;

f) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

 

Has anyone had the same and if so, did Lloyds respond by the time they were supposed to with everything asked for above?

If Lloyds do not respond by 8th August, what should I do?

 

Very grateful for any help.