The Lovely Marlin recoveries....more threats to come?! - Marble Cfredit Card debt

[ScabHunter]

At least your life is not all black by any means. You've got a loving partner, a house, and it sounds as though you are not living on benefits anyway. It could be a lot worse.

 

In this case, bankruptcy is clearly something to be avoided if at all possible.

 

Although your creditors are lying dormant at this stage, at any stage they can suddenly spring into action like rattlesnakes.

 

If I was in your position I would want to see what they all hold in the way of agreements. The Consumer Action Group website does not advocate debt avoidance, but the fact remains that negotiations with these people tend to go a lot more smoothly if they realise they have nothing to enforce the alleged debt with in a law court.

 

It may well be possible to bring that 2016 date back nearer to the present.

 

I would send off a CCA request to all of the creditors as it sounds very much as though all of these loans and cards will be covered by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are thinking of leaving PayPlan, which I would advise now you have one unenforceable agreement, then I would hold off doing that until I had seen the results of these requests.

 

You might also want to send an SAR to each of the original creditors to see how much of this debt is made up of unlawful charges. This will also help in negotiating terms for full and final settlement.

 

The value of the property may well bounce back. Historically it has been a good long term investment in this country.

 

One thing you might want to consider if you own property with your partner is taking in a lodger. This can give you a nice tax free income of up to £4,250 a year, which should help considerably with clearing up these debts. There is a link here if you are interested -

 

http://www.findaproperty.com/displaystory.aspx?edid=00&salerent=1&storyid=10078

 

SH

[moneyworries]

Thanks SH - We unfortunately do not have the room for a lodger..

 

All my loans were under £25k, it is indeed the charges which have bumped up the costs. The HFC loan is under a CCJ so I need to leave that as it is. I am wary of upsetting creditors unnecessarily though - would the SAR requests not just make them angry?!

 

Lloyds credit cards have already taken an unusual step in sedning a letter which makes my DMP formally binding and have said that they will not class my DMP as bad anymore. They have cleared the arrears and changed the T&C's on my agreement to accommodate the new "arrangement" (not that any of us were given a choice, there's loads of threads about this on here) but that appears to be a positive stepon their part rather than a nasty one. As for the loan, I amy give it a try as there are lots of charges on there and it is my biggest debt. iI don't know how cahoot react to SAR requests...does anyone have any experience?

[fuzzybobble]

may be worth sending a CCA for the HFC loan. Even though you have a CCJ on it. I know from experience that HFC lost a lot of agreements when they became a limited company after they were bought by HSBC a few years ago. (They lost mine too. )

 

If HFC fail to provide a CCA for the account you can apply to the court to have the CCJ set aside, then eventually removed altogether.

 

But for now concentrate on the others and establish what is enforceable and what's not. Then take it from there a step at a time.

[moneyworries]

Hello - just an update....

 

I need to do something with Marlin because I think they are calling my bluff. In my last letter to them I indicated that if they did not produce an agreement that I would reconsider the payments I am making to them. This means that I need to stop paying them I guess which judging by previous threads on Marlin will prompt them into sending court papers or hopefully dropping it...(I wish)

 

The problem with stopping payments is that Payplan want nothing to do with it even though I have explained that I am not trying to get out of what I owe, just calling into question Marlin's rights. Payplan said I should just continue paying them basically even though they know I have bigger debts that this money can go toward. They said that they would not remove Marlin from the DMP - does this mean I have to leave them?

 

I will CCA Lloyds and Abbey to see what they do re the loans. They are very accepting of the current arrangement so hopefully this won't make them grumpy but it will at least give me enough scope to see if I can see if the agreements are enforceable or not

[ScabHunter]

I am no fan of PayPlan so I would say get out of there. Although this will involve you in renegotiation with other creditors, you simply cannot afford to keep paying money into an unenforceable account.

 

If there are any accounts which come under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 which you have not yet made a CCA request on, do that IMMEDIATELY. I mean tomorrow morning. Even if you have to fake the bubonic plague to get an hour off work. Just DO IT. And make sure they are sent Special Delivery. As you have a property with equity in it, you are like a sitting duck. You need to get as many of these accounts into dispute as possible as quickly as possible.

 

Get these CCA requests off as quickly as humanly possible. Leave getting out of PayPlan as late as you can without wasting further money on the dead Marlin account. I say "dead" because the agreement they have sent is unenforceable. It is extremely unlikely that they will now find one that IS enforceable. If they did, it would become resurrected.

 

Just make sure you keep paying the one that is under CCJ.

 

Don't worry about making creditors "grumpy" with CCA or SAR requests. They are simply a legal right of yours, to have information disclosed to you. Without this information, you are going to be in a terrible situation for a very long time. With it, who knows?

 

SH

[moneyworries]

Thanks SH

I will definitely do the CCA's tomorrow AM. I have been looking through some posts on here to see how my creds are likely to respond and it largely seems that everyone is saying the same thing.

 

I guess at least if the accounts are in dispute then it stops any potential legal action until they can produce enforceable agreements - should I leave writing my "bring it on" letter to Marlin until I have done this? I get the feeling that if I leave them to their own devices too long they will just go down the legal route whether the account is in dispute or not so I don't want to leave it much longer..

[ScarletPimpernel]

I agree with Scabhunter about Payplan - and CCCS. For some people they can be useful, i.e. once it has been demonstrated that there is a legal right to collect.

 

Payplan and CCCS are only interested in arranging repayment to the industry that funds them. The DMPs they arrange are informal, and they will simply shrug their shoulders if a debt is sold or a DCA or creditor decides to be aggressive.

 

Both organisations also appear to suffer from difficulties with resources, leading to long waiting times and a rather offhand manner. I have found, in my professional dealings with both, that some of their staff take a judgmental view which is unhelpful.

[ScabHunter]

Have you written to Marlin since you received the unenforceable agreement?

 

All I would do in this situation is send ONE letter putting the account firmly in dispute, and then that would be it. You've got other problems to deal with right now.

 

Don't keep poking them. There is no point. If they do want to initiate court action on a blatantly unenforceable agreement, there is nothing you can do to stop them. Worry about that if it happens. There is every chance you would get some nice costs money to put towards your other battles.

 

There is no evidence to suggest that failing to respond to the endless machine produced threatagrams increases the risk of court action. All it definitely does do is save you time and money.

 

SH

[moneyworries]

Thanks again SH

When they sent the agreement, they quoted the Rankine case saying that as my agreement was terminated by the OC that they had no further obligation to supply docs blah blah...I wrote to back them following that saying that I disputed this as Rankine had set no such precedent/Wilson-v-Hurstanger and so on and that as far as I was concerned the agreement was unenforceable and the account still in dispute so legal action will be reported etc etc

 

Is that what you mean? If so, I won't contact them until they contact me - they seem to be relying on the fact that because I am in a DMP I am clearly in no legal position to deny the debt in court.

[creditcardmug]

I agree with SP on this CCCS/Payplan, are very useful, if not invalueable when you start out on the battle with creditors, however there comes a time when you have to dump them and continue on your own.

[moneyworries]

Hello

I have been checking through the site on whether or not to notify Marlin that I am going to cease paying them and in doing so had a final look through the docs they sent me - it sounds a small point as the app form they sent me is just the initial application and has no t&c's or prescribed terms on it but unlike some of the other unenforceable examples discussed on here, my copy has been signed by both parties. With this in mind and in conjunction with the statements they sent does this make an enforceable agreement?

[creditcardmug]

It makes no difference, if there's no prescribed terms on it its not enforceable.

[moneyworries]

Thanks, I thought that was the case but didn't want to look like a muppet if I had been wrong!! The application form is "page 1 of 4" apparently but there is no sign of the other 3...Marlin said that the statements they provided make up the prescribed terms but I believe that this is a load of rubbish

 

I need to get papyplan to get them off my dmp now I guess so I can stop paying them :-|

[creditcardmug]

Thats probably where your problems will start, because payplan i suspect wont agree to do that, so you will probably have to cancel the whole plan.

 

Have you asked for pages 2to4?, i presume page one refers to the prescribed terms as being in them?

[moneyworries]

Hello

I haven't asked for the other pages as yet. The two sections on the form which relate to terms are as follows:

 

"Page 1 of 4, to be returned together with Terms and Conditions on pages 2,3, and 4 in the envelope provided."

 

The only other reference to terms on the form is in the box where I have signed the application. It states as follows:

 

"This is a credit agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign here only if you agree to be bound by it's terms"

 

I am guessing that the top point is where Marlin are saying that the statements provide the prescribed terms because they would not have issued a credit card if I had not signed the T&C's. I believe that as the card carrier is never signed, some leeway was given by the DJ who sorted out the Rankines so Marlin evidently believe it is precedent....the statements would not have been issued if I hadn't been using the card so hence the agreement was executed.

 

This is the way Marlin see it anyway - any ideas anyone?!

[moneyworries]

I have recently found myself in a bit of a mexican stand-off with Marlin over a £2k HFC credit card debt

which I CCA'd them for and they subsequently didn't produce.

They did all the usual, made threats, cited Rankine and so on

 

 

I sent them a letter saying that it had been over three months since I asked for the CCA details

and so I would make arrangements to stop paying them the installments if they could not produce.

That was about 6 weeks ago.

 

 

For the record this is what they sent me:

 

- Several very old account statments (these show interest/balance etc)

- A copy of the app form signed by both parties but no terms

- The app form is page 1of 4 and refers to terms being on other page

- No sign of page 2,3 or 4

- There is no NOA from HFC only the usual from Marlin.

 

The reason I was paying them anything at all was because Payplan said that it was best to stay on their good side whilst the account was in dispute.

I contacted Payplan to let them know where I was up to but they said that by not paying Marlin I was acting immorally!!

 

The ONLY reason I CCA'd Marlin in the first place was because the amount that they stipulated I owe was far more than what my Payplan recirds say.

I am not trying to avoid the debt, just refusing to let Marlin get their way if they're not legally allowed to enforce it.

 

Could anyone advise please?:?

[sillygirl1]

Payplan are paid by these DCas indirectly so they have the 'moral' arguement on your side - you now have solid 'legally proven fact' that Marlin don't have any real claim on you.

 

You need to ask Payplan for a copy of their complaints procedure and state that you will end the DMP if they do not remove a creditor who is no longer a creditor. You shouldn't have had to do the paperwork trail but unfurtunately that is now a fact of life and these 'independent free' companies are not always what they seem.

[moneyworries]

Thanks for that - I'll get onto it. Payplan are sticking up for Marlin because they feel that although the app form has no T&C's it still refers to them being on the other pages and according to them, that in conjunction with the statements (which do show the APR, balance, next repayment date etc) is enough. They said that having had no NOA from HFC is neither here nor there and that in their view the agreement is enforceable in court hence they will not remove it from the DMP...there's no default on record for this debt either but again Payplan said this doesn't matter - I thought that there had to be a default before anything else!!

 

I did explain that I only CCA'd Marlin because the amounts were in dispute but they were having none of it!

[Pinky69]

Who is Payplan to say whom you will and will not pay???? If it doesn't suit you, come out and deal with your own debts. I was with CCCS until last November, cancelled it, CCAd all my creditors and I haven't looked back since. No organisation would tell me who will and who will not be on my debt management plan - it's none of their business!

[moneyworries]

I agree - I just hope Payplan are wrong about their views on the agreement being enforceable. I dismissed it at first but having looked into it a bit further it does have a certain logic I guess. That said, though I have nothing to lose by calling their bluff - Marlin can't take what I don't have can they?!

[moneyworries]

I seem to be in a Mexican standoff with Marlin. Here is a potted history to keep it short:

 

July: Sent CCA request following receipt of DOA for Marbles £2k debt.

Sept: Sent dispute letter

October: Got back some old statments, sent dispute letter

November: Got back copy of app form (signed by both) Form has no T&C's but refers to them being on subsequent pages (not sent). This was accompanied by letter quoting Rankine and stating that as my agreement was terminated they have no further obligation to supply anything, pay up blah blah blah

November: Sent another dispute letter citing Wilson/Hurstanger. Tried to cancel Marlin from my DMP but Payplan would not allow it and said to review after Xmas.

 

Marlin have sent nothing since..until now, I am still paying them the amount which they rejected through payplan. I haven't said a word to them since July and am basically wondering if they are just waiting for me to make a move and stop paying them. Their main argument is that the app form combined with statements forms an executed agreement.

 

Marlin left me a message yesterday saying that I should contact them which I have ignored. The message states that they are awaiting a reply to their last correspondence concerning my CCA request - does anyone know what I should write back or whether I should just ignore payplan and stop paying them? I did reply to their last letter (with the Wilson one, recorded del, signed for) so I have no idea what they want :-?

[ODC]

Wilson is a Stated Case in the House of Lords whereas Rankine is not. It has no Legal precedence. Marlin clutchin at strawsg

[moneyworries]

Hmmm. I think I will need to speak to Payplan again to get Marlin taken off the DMP. That should prompt Marlin to take any legal action they think they can get away with and I'll see the muppets in court

 

I guess until I do that they will just sit quiet because they are at least getting paid something and are waiting to see what I do.

[moneyworries]

Hello

I CCA'd Marlin months back when they tried threatening court action for a Marbles debt of £2k which is being dealt with via Payplan. They did all the usual, cited Rankine, sent a load of very old statements and an old app form which has no T&C's (but does make reference to them being on page 4 which they never sent) and then they gave up and did nothing.

 

We put our house up for sale recently as we need a new place due to job commitments and I guess through the land registry or something it must be visible to Marlin who now have MC solicitors on the case. The letter reads that they are instructed by Phoenix/Marlin to pursue a court judgement as our house is no for sale and that they intend to secure the CCJ with a CO.

 

They ask me to either pay the debt in seven days OR to ask my conveyancing solicitor to write ensuring that the debt will be paid upon completion of the property sale...kind of like a CO but without going to the hassle of getting one eh?!

 

The account is already in dispute with Phoenix so can they do this? I have maintained my payments to Marlin as Payplan said it would be unwise not to so I think it is a scare tactic but just wanted to check what to write back...naturally I have less than 7 days now!!

 

Thanks as always

[Spamalot]

My initial reaction would be to tell them to get knotted!

 

They would have to A...get a CCJ first... and then wait for you to default on that before going in for the CO...

 

Spam.