Alex the Lad v. Abbey

[alex_the_lad]

I'm sending off my preliminary approach for repayment letter today - so wish me luck!! In the absence of all the statements I'm having to guess the dates that some charges were levied, but I've put a line in the letter about reserving the right to alter the amount and particulars of the schedule of charges at a later date citing their failture to comply with the DPA. Here's hoping I get my money back - my claim is just over 5k!

[woodwa5]

Hi Alex,

 

I'm in exactly the same position as you. I received that spreadsheet thingy on Saturday covering Jan 2004 'till June 2006 (THE DATES WHERE MOST OF MY CHARGES CAME OUT). I have put them all on the spreadsheet toady and the owe me £5200. I am going to do exactly the same as you and i'm basing my interest on 25th of each month as that is when my charges always come out,

 

Regards,

 

Woodwa5

[alex_the_lad]

Good luck woodwa5 - give 'um hell! I'll keep a look out for your thread to see how you're getting on.

 

Just slightly off topic - I'm an F1 fan and I'm really gutted that one of my Fav teams,McLaren, is sponsored by Santander - parent company of Abbey!!!

[alex_the_lad]

I sent off my Pleniminary letter on Monday and I got a response from Abbey in the post today. I just felt it was worth posting 'cos that has to be about the quickest reply I've ever had from Abbey. Alas it was just the standard by now (I guess) letter telling me they needed 4 weeks to investigate etc. Oh well it good to be underway I suppose!

[alex_the_lad]

Really hacked off with Abbey now (suprise!). Basically I'm missing two years worth of statements - I've only got their spreadsheet with a summary of charges for this period. I've spent the last two weeks chasing up these statements and so you can imagine my joy when this morning I recieved a nice A4 sized envelope from Abbey. This soon turned to disapointment when I opened it to find another copy of that spreadsheet summary. All I've gained for two weeks of chasing is an undertaking from Abbey that the spreadsheet is accurate and so I'm getting on with my claim.

 

What I wonder is - will this compromise me at court stage and also can I do any thing with my LBA to bring this to their attention? Also can I make this an issue in my claim when it gets to court stage as I really feel as if this is an attempt to frustrate my claim - although obviously I have no proof.

[alex_the_lad]

Bump!

[alex_the_lad]

Hi - basically I sent my preliminary letter last week and from reading some threads today I realise that I shouldn't have asked for the 8% interest - it should only be added at the court stage. Is there anything I can do to redeem the situation?

[petcat]

Dont worry i did the same by using the MSE template and didnt know about this then.So long as you are willing to accept any settlement for charges before you file your claim you should be ok.

[alex_the_lad]

Hi! Bascially it's 2 weeks since I sent my Preliminary Letter and haven't had any real progress (only the 'give us 4 weeks to look into it' letter) - so I'm sending my LBA today. Bascially it's the standard one but I've felt the need to add two bit's 'cos I claimed the 8 percent interest in the first letter (my bad) and they still haven't sent me a full record of transactions for Jan 04 - Jan 06 (just got a summary of charges for that period). I just wonder if you guys would mind casting an eye over my letter (red paragraphs contain the additions):

 

'I am very disappointed that you have failed to respond to my letter of the 18th June 2007. I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law and contrary to consumer regulations.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise.

 

I calculate that you have taken £x,xxx I am enclosing a copy of the schedule of the charges which I am claiming. You will note that this schedule of charges also includes the 8% interest applied to the charges that I am claiming in the amount of £xxx.xx. This is of course the interest that I will become entitled claim under the County Courts Act 1984 should I find it necessary to progress this matter to a claim at County Court.

 

I require repayment in full of this money. If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus my costs and without further notice.

 

You are also reminded of my request that you forward a copy of the Terms and Conditions that were in force at the time my account was opened, and any subsequent amendments to those Terms and Conditions. These are requested under CPR Pre-Action Protocol 4.6©, and your continued failure to provide them will be brought to the attention of the court, should it be necessary to commence a county court action.

 

Further I would remind you that you have yet to fully comply with my Subject Access Request that I made in relation to my account on 13th March 2007 in that I have yet to receive a full record of transactions in relation to my account for the period January 2004 to January 2006.'

 

Thanks in advance!

[alex_the_lad]

Hi! Basically I sent my LBA last Monday so I'm presumably just over a week away from the N1 stage. I'm okay with that but I just need some advce on my situation.

 

Basically I've been on Benefits for the last 8 months. In May this year Abbey withdrew my overdraft facility of 500 quid. Basicially I got freaked by the threatening letters and just continued to let my carer's allowance go in to pay it off at 48 quid a week - an arrangement Abbey agreed. I also get income support of 35 quid a week which I lived off (got this as a giro) - I've moved back in with my parents so my living costs are low anyway. Basically when I made the arrangement I'm fairly sure that the lady I spoke to agreed to my request that they would no apply charges to my account (although I concede that doesn't sound very Abbey like!). Guess what? Today I looked at my statement and they charged me a fee for the overdraft amount (20 quid) and 13 quids worth of interest on the overdrwn amount - basically it's the diffence between my thinking I am about 60 quid off paying them back and the reality being nearly a 100 quid - big difference for me.

 

My questions are these:

 

1) Can I add this latest charge to my schedule at N1 stage or do I have to send Abbey another LBA with revised schedule?

 

2) In terms of my claim - I've only claimed back the charges and not the interest charged. My agrument (in my head at this stage) being that they are making money on two fronts - charges and interest (interest being reasonable on the basis that a judge might play devil's advocate and ask me if it is fair for the bank to at least charge something and me conceding that interest). As an aside, I'm uable to caluclate all the interest anyway 'cos I'm still missing two years worth of statements - just got that spreadsheet summary of charges for that period.

 

3) Would it be reasonable in my claim to suggest that Abbey have caused me hardship by continuing to charge overdraft fees - even through I've explained to Abbey that they are getting most of my money to repay the overdraft and that the fact they keep edging it out with charges is really plaing havoc with my personal circumstances? Would the fact that I agreed to pay back at this rate go against me?

 

Any advice - even if you just want to call me a muppet - would be valued!!!

[jules1973]

Quote

2) In terms of my claim - I've only claimed back the charges and not the interest charged. My agrument (in my head at this stage) being that they are making money on two fronts - charges and interest (interest being reasonable on the basis that a judge might play devil's advocate and ask me if it is fair for the bank to at least charge something and me conseeding the interest). As an aside - I'm uable to caluclate all the interest anyway 'cos I'm still missing two years worth of statements - just got that spreadsheet summary of charges for that period.

 

Alex

 

They are entitled to only provide yu with the spreadsheet for the period 04-06. I was lucky enough to get microfiche for that period as well as the spreadsheet as my 40 deadline had passed and I threatened to report them to the FOS and FSA for non - compliance, but they are well within their rights to just supply you with the spreadsheet.

 

As most charges are taken out on the same date every month, look at your statements to see when they generally take the charges out your account and use that date when you list the charges from the spreadsheet to the calculation sheet that you submit.

 

Also, I believe you can add up any future charges to your list up till you actually file your N1

[alex_the_lad]

A momentous day! Having made my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) on 13th March 2007 - I finally have a complete set of statements for the last 6 years. I've finally got a list of all transactions for January 2004 - January 2006 and they even tally with the summary spread sheet they intially palmed me off with for that period! Just in time for me to file my N1 on Monday.

 

So far Abbey have only sent me the standard letter about needing 4 wks to investigate. In other claiments experience at what stage do Abbey seem to become any more interested in these claims?

[alex_the_lad]

Hi! I'm just at the N1 stage and wondered if anyone could just look at my particulars of claim to see if they're okay. I put them together from looking at a few others posted on the forums and looking at the court bundle content.

 

 

 

 

Particulars of Claim

 

 

 

 

1. The Claimant has an account, ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened around governed by the defendant’s Personal Banking Terms and Conditions (“the Contract”).

 

2. The Claimant admits to breaches of the terms of the Contract that require the claimant to stay within any agreed overdraft limit.

 

3. The breaches have led to the Defendant debiting the account with numerous default charges, and interest on the default charges, between and . A list of the charges and interest on the charges is attached to the Particulars of Claim.

 

4. The Defendant has failed to answer the Claimant’s written requests for information about any manual intervention necessitated by, and/or any administrative costs incurred as a result of, the said breaches. The Claimant contends that the Defendant’s default charges are not intended to represent any alleged actual loss, but instead unjustly enrich the Defendant, which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

5. The claimant will rely on a report from the Competition Commission entitled “Northern Irish Personal Banking,” published on 20/10/2006, as evidence that the defendant is aware that the income derived from its default charges is calculated to generate material profits and is not merely a means of recouping losses incurred in relation to account defaults.

 

6. The claimant will further rely on the statement of the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) concerning default charges in credit card contracts, published on 05/04/2006, to demonstrate that:

 

a. In a consumer contract, where the parties are not of equal bargaining power, any estimate that included costs which could not legitimately be claimed as damages from an individual consumer in a case brought at common law, and which made a material difference to the overall charge, is likely to constitute a penalty at law.

 

b. The interest ordinarily charged on an overdrawn balance of account would of itself be deemed sufficient compensation to the defendant in a claim for damages arising from account breaches of the said nature.

 

7. Accordingly the defendant’s default charges are:

 

a. A penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are an unreasonable pre-estimate of the probable loss to the defendant and therefore contrary to common law - Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79.

 

b. The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999), the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977.

 

8. Accordingly, the claimant claims:

 

a. The return of £ taken by the defendant in charges between and .

 

b. Interest under s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year, from and of £ and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of pence.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Lula]

Alex, looks fine to me

[alex_the_lad]

Thanks for the prompt response - I'm off down to the courts!

[alex_the_lad]

Just come home from submitting my N1 at court. However I've just looked over my particulars of claim and I realise that I've entered my account number incorrectly - I've put a 3 and 4 the wrong way around.

 

Any advice on what I could do would be valued.

[Lula]

Ring the court and ask them to correct the number

[alex_the_lad]

Hi! I rang my local court today who confirmed that Abbey had acknowledged service in respect of my claim and that they now have just under 14 days to file a defence. The lady I spoke to then said that once a defence had been filed that the court would most likely stay the case (seemingly regardless of whether Abbey applies for a stay or not).

 

My question is whether I wait for things to take their course (i.e. wait for Abbey to file and wait for the court to contact me) and then use the Stay rejection application (modified to a stay set aside application) or should I pre-empt that by writing to the court now using the Stay relejection template as a basis? Just one other question - In any of the applications to reject/set aside stays is it worth asking if as an alternative the stay should be time limited, I mean is for the stay to be of a fixed period e.g. 6 months rather than just whenever the test case is resolved, or are judges doing that anyway?

 

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[adamc6671]

Hi Alex

 

'Fraid I don't know the answers to your questions, but I DO like the idea of asking the Judge for a time-limited stay (that is if he insists on granting a stay). It seems a very fair and reasonable request to make (human rights etc etc) as by the sound of it the 'test case' could well run for years, taking into account appeals. It would be grossly unfair to expect claimants to wait that long. Will try that approach myself with both my forthcoming Allocation Hearings.

 

All the best - Adam

[alex_the_lad]

Hi! I wonder if anyone could help me out with a little advice on the following.

 

Basically my claim against Abbey is for about 5k (including the 8%). I'm at the stage of waiting for Abbey to file a defence at which point I understand my local Court will stay the claim.

 

I've been looking at my charges and there are about £500 worth of charges which had accumilated on my account from last Oct that I paid off using all of my Carer's Allowance payments over a period of 2 months. I didn't know about laws relating to beneift payments into bank accounts (which I'm still not very sure about). I just wonder if it would be possible to do anything about claiming this portion of my charges back whilst the rest of my claim is stayed? Also how would I go about doing this - would I have to amend my claim (is that possible at this stage?) or could I maybe mention it in my application to have the stay set aside?

 

Thanks in advance for any advice!

[alex_the_lad]

Bump - sorry to be a pain, but any advice would be valued.

 

Thanks

[alex_the_lad]

Just put together a letter for the court requesting that a stay should not be applied to my case. Just wondered if I shold send a copy fo the letter to Abbey as well?

[alex_the_lad]

Hi! Just wondered if someone could point me in the right direction. I want to know how I go about changing my POC. Thanks in advance.