Suz L v Abbey

[Sue Loftus]

Hi John

 

I have finally got my bundle together and sent it off special delivery today to make sure my bundle was in Court with plenty of time as the Judge ordered it in my case. I also courier a bundle to the Ingaj so they know I mean business - it was signed for at her offices at 17.01 today hehe.

 

Still concerned about appearing before a Judge and am very nervous about putting my case - especially the application to strike out their defence. Also, in my POC I claimed for a higher figure than that recorded in my allocation questionnaire - I reduced what I was claiming because I wasn't sure how much etc I could claim so decided to write it off.

 

What time are you in Court John? I am trying to think of some good arguments for a stay should they Abbey apply for one on the day which no doubt they will.

 

Sue

[Sue Loftus]

bump - any answers most welcome

[Sue Loftus]

Grrrrrrr I'm so angy I have to post this message. I am seething at the utter contempt Ashursts have for orders made by the Court and then adhering to them because the Abbey are going to hide behind the OFT case. I have had an email exchange with Inga this afternoon whereby I wanted to open up settlement negotiations and pointed out that I had not received their bundle for Court which I should have had as the hearing is on 24 September and the Judge ordered that witness statements should be filed no later than 14 days before blah blah blah.

 

She informed me that they would be applying for a stay on the day but if I would consent to the stay she could email me the consent order!! WELL I told her there was no way on earth I would be consenting to a stay and that it was very presumptutous of them to believe they would be granted the stay especially as I have an application to strike out being heard at the same time! I'm so angry. Inga's reply was "your comments are noted".

 

Words fail me now as I'm so angry I could cry.

 

Sue

[Lula]

Sue, dont cry and try not to get mad, its not personal for most of them, they are just playing the game, so play them back at yours, if you havn't received their bundle then you need to post this to the court ASAP recorded delivery and to abbey

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

[You] –v- Abbey Plc

Claim No: ********

 

I write in relation to the claim as detailed above, and specifically the order made by District Judge ******* dated [date].

 

You were ordered by the court to by [date] file and serve the documents upon which your client intends to rely at the forthcoming hearing. For your reference, a copy of the order to which I refer is enclosed with this letter.

 

To date I have received no such documents and accordingly you are now in breach of the aforementioned court order.

 

Please note that the evidence upon which I intend to rely was both filed and served pursuant to the order of the court on [date].

 

Your non-compliance creates a significant imbalance between the parties in light of the forthcoming hearing, which is contrary to the overriding objective. This imbalance is particularly exacerbated by the fact that you are specialist solicitors representing a powerful financial institution, whereas I am a litigant in person. I feel that your litigation should be conducted in a professional manner befitting of such a prestigious organisation.

 

In view of the above, I will request at the hearing that the District Judge gives consideration to whether your client's defence should be struck out pursuant to CPR 3.4(2)© and/or (b).

 

Please reply at your earliest conveniance explaining why you have not served the documents as ordered and stating by when I can expect to receive them, or alternatively, indicating that you wish to settle these matters without the need for a hearing.

 

I look forward to your prompt response.

 

Yours faithfully

[Sue Loftus]

Thanks for that Lula I'll make sure I get that off by courier on Monday as Ashursts are just round the corner from my work. One of the emails I got from Inga today wasn't marked "WITHOUT PREJUDICE" and she actually had the audacity to say in that letter that they wouldn't be sending me documents as they would be applying for a stay!!! I told her I was disgusted that such a large firm did not think they should comply with a Court Order. She may have twigged by now that as I am emailing her from my work address I work for solicitors! I'll be printing off the email to attach to the letter to the Court!

 

I'm beginning to calm down now though as we are all in the same boat and are being actively discriminated against by Abbey as hearings were listed for after the announcement of the OFT case.

 

Sue

[zootscoot]

Three threads merged. Please stick to one thread per claim it makes it easier for you and others to track your progress.

[Sue Loftus]

HELP DESPERATELY NEEDED PLEASE. Hearing on Monday and I think I have messed up big time!! I reduced the amount I was claiming in my AQ as I wasn't sure what I could actually claim back so limited it just to charges for bounced dd's and cheques. I have now found out that I may have had to have served an amended POC or N244 application. I have emailed Ashursts twice to see if they will accept the sum in the AQ as the sum in dispute but they are ignoring me! What should I do????

 

All advice much appreciated.

 

Sue x

[RadioJohn]

Hi Suz

 

Sorry for not replying sooner. I'm due in at 2pm on Monday. How about you?

 

Have you tried calling Bow County Court for advise? I'm no expert in this by any stretch - where did you get this information from?

 

RJ

[kia]

hiya kia here ill try and help so the amount on the AQ doesnt match the amount on earlier correspondance does it cos how did u get first figure if it doesnt match AQ amount and how is AQ different amount (is that same question )but in any case ill bump it for u and someone who can help may see it xxxkia

[Sue Loftus]

Hi John/Kia

 

Thank you both for trying to help. I did call the Court in the end and got two different answers would you believe. The first time I called I was told I didn't have to do anything seeing as I was reducing the claim however, seeing as I'm panicing like crazy at the moment I called back again later in the day and was told that I should really do a new POC and submit it to the Court and Defendant!! Well, I thought, FFS! So I emailed Inga and asked if she would agree (by email) to accept the figure in my AQ as the amount in dispute and the figure that I would be claiming. I put a read receipt on it too for good measure. She opened my email but didn't respond. The next day I emailed her again with the same question and again put a read receipt on the email and again she didn't respond. So, thought I, I'll send her a copy with my new POC (just in case the Court/Judge want to get me for not following procedure) by special delivery and I'll fax a copy to the Court. Checked with the Court that they had received the POC and covering letter, which they had, and I feel much happier now. However still not happy about going to Court but hey ho, I'll get to meet John!! Have been informed that there are two judges sitting (Millard and Abrahams) so who knows John and I could get different judges with differing outcomes - who knows.

 

Anyway, am completely convinced that Abbey will get their stay and my application to strike out will be dismissed but having worked for solicitors for years I've never been to Court so at least I'll get to see what its all about.

 

 

 

Sue xxx

[kia]

well the closest i got was jury service cos my case the defence was thrown out so i was one of the lucky ones mind u think my court is one of the ones not staying cases either so one good thing i suppose wont it be alot of u all at once surely so safety in numbers just get your facts right and try not to be intimidated easier said i know but im sure youll be fine so where are u now do you still have to wait for a decision by the judge or have u a date to go?xxkia

[Sue Loftus]

Hi Kia

 

Its the formal hearing on monday and the court have listed my application to strike out at the same time. I haven't even done jury service so you are one step ahead of me Kia!

[kia]

well id be a liar if i said its a piece of cake cos you probably already know it aint but just try and look cool even if your shaking inside and have your arguement ready to refuse the stay xxkia

[ohoh4312]

Hi Sue

 

I am one of the least qualified to help you, but, IF they ask for a stay on my case tomorrow, I am going to argue, first and foremost, that a stay should have been applied for in accordance with directions - actually on the day of the hearing is outside of the time limit set by the court. If that doesn't work (although it should), I shall argue that the test case may be cancelled, and should that happen, the grounds for a stay on the defendants part become null and void.

 

I reckon if we all do this, the Judiciary will have to listen - won't they?

 

Best of luck hun

 

Lotsa luv

 

Jo xx

[Robdblynd]

If they apply for a stay you could argue that it should've been applied for on the appropriate form and enclosing the appropriate fee and within the time scales set by CPR, not on the day for free. That's unequal treatment for claimant and defendant.

[psm]

Sorry to be the voice of doom, but I have been there and purchased the t-shirt. The first thing to understand is the the court system is steeped in protocol and a little mysticism. I was in a court proper, the defence, Abbey's agent, was the first to speak, she arrived with only a few papers relating to the stay application. She requested a stay and briefly outlined the reasoning. It would be wise to take note of the reasoning to see if you can counter it with your own arguements. You must remember that the judge will have presided over quite a few cases where the claimants come armed with the CAG objections to a stay, normally in the form of a typed sheet that is handed to all parties. Even my judge, who was very fair minded, gave my sheet a cursory glance and said, "I have seen this before" and ignored them and she passed over my letter requesting a strike out due to the deffence not complying with the judges directions. She did, however rebuke the defence for comming ill prepared to try the case and for their presumption that a stay would be automatically granted. You may stand a better chance if you can relate your objections to the defence's reasoning for a stay, this will be based around the complexity of the issues and the OFT overlap. Bring in the arguement about the Breach of Contract claim in the defence document, that it can be settled in points of fact not law, and that it is routinely dealt with at county court level. If you have the documents that were served on the Abbey refer to specific paragraph's. Ask the defence direct questions refering to the documents to highlight the fact that the defence came ill prepared. When proposing a point of arguement use the words "I respectfuly submit that......." this appears to be the form. I must admit it was a nerve wracking experience. I hope you have a chance to say your piece. You will know your fate very quickly by the demeanour of the judge. It seems to me that expediencey seems to have ridden roughshod over justice when it comes to these bank charges cases. The very best of luck today but whatever happens you can be proud of yourself to have got it this far.

[Sue Loftus]

Oh my gauld, lets hope I get a sympathetic Judge! I am going to work on my points regarding the stay over the weekend as I've been so busy but I have been collating notes so hopefully it won't be too horrific.

 

Thanks so much for the sound advice, I have been keeping an eye on your thread and only wish your hubby could come to Court with me!! I'm taking my mum instead for moral support

 

Thanks to you too Kia for trying to keep me more optimistic but as we all know we are just a small voice and the banks seem to be getting their own way - at the moment!

 

Anyways, will keep an eye on all threads over the next few days and shall report back to everyone on Monday.

 

Sue x

[RadioJohn]

I'll let you know how I get on too. I hope I don't stuff up my lines (it's been known in the past). I'm bringing my girlfriend for support - she's better at giving people a flea in the ear than me.

 

Suz - I've PM'd you

[RadioJohn]

By the way...

 

Does anyone think it's worth printing another copy of my bundle to give to the defence just in case the judge decides not to stay the claim (assuming the defence turns up without it)?

[psm]

I doubt it is worth the trouble. The defence agaent will not do anything without instructions from the Abbey and I doubt very much the Abbey will want to go ahead. Good luck

[RadioJohn]

Thanks PSM - your probably right. I got the idea from your thread actually.

[Sue Loftus]

Thanks John - can your other half and my mum get together and scare the Judge before we go in??? just a thought I've PM'd you by the way John in response to yours.

 

Now peeps, I have a sick child here and am trying to sort myself out for Monday (nothing like leaving this to the last minute). I haven't been able to use the link to the OFT POC's as my computer is too sensitive! Does anyone have a copy of them that they could send me or an alternative link please? I'm also wanting to enclose a copy of the revised Abbey Defence. Do we have a link or copy of that please?

 

I had wanted to have all this out of the way so I could relax today and prepare for my 15 minutes in Court but it doesn't look like that's going to happen - I'm even going to miss the footy when my boys take on Newcastle today - oh woe is me!

 

Do we really need to do a witness statement or would a summary of objections suffice? Just a thought.

 

Any info or advice always gratefully received

 

Sue xxx

[Sue Loftus]

PSM/GaryH

 

Would either of you be kind enough to look at my objections to a stay pls??

 

Thanks

 

Sue

[Sue Loftus]

Well all got my hearing today at 2pm and shall be leaving to get to Court in a few minutes. Am quaking in my boots after reading of a couple of bad experiences on here regarding the treatment from the Judge so am keeping my fingers crossed that the Judges in Bow will treat me gently. Taking mum along to hold my hand as at 41 years old I can't do anything on my own Hey ho, am prepared as much as can be. Will report back later folks

 

Sue

[ohoh4312]

Best of Luck Sue - I sincerely hope it goes okay for you.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing(!), so if the rep comes to talk to you prior to the case, politely but firmly refuse to discuss matters in the waiting room. Stay calm and focused - unlike me!!!!

 

Got everything crossed for you.

 

Lotsa luv

 

Jo xx