Brake disk issue

[berrti]

I had my car into the dealership yesterday to investigate the handbrake sticking when the car has been sitting for a few days. (car is 21 months old with 20500 miles on the clock and dealer serviced from new).

 

When I picked it up they informed me that the front and rear pads needed replaced (not a big surprise). The front brake discs need skimming (?) and the rear discs are "badly corroded and need replaced".

 

Can anyone tell me if 21 months,20.5K miles is reasonable for brake disks to need replacing - seems a very short time to me (still on first set of pads).

 

I queried if the disks would be replaced under warranty and was told "we will try that but we doubt if the manufacturer will agree".

 

Is it reasonable to expect to pay out £500 for brake repairs after so short a time.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Berrti

[syrill-sneer]

What car do you have and is it an automatic or manual?

[berrti]

Car is a Mazda MX-5 manual. Rear wheel drive

 

Thanks

Berrti

[miniconverter]

Brake wear depends on how you drive the harder you drive the more the wear. It would not be unusual to need front pads at this mileage but you would need to be hard on the brakes to need front discs as well.

 

As a general rule we normally find you need new discs every second set of pads which can be anything from 40 to 70k miles.

 

Rear discs on the MX5 are prone to corrosion as they do very little work and is also the type of car which stands for long periods.

 

Pad replacement would be normal whenever discs are replaced.

 

If they say the front disc's require skimming ask them why. If they are worn you can't skim them and if they are distorted they should be covered by the manufactures warranty as this is not normal wear and tear.

 

Price looks a little on the steep side I would have thought of the top of my head around £300. That would be using Ferodo pads and discs which are OE on many cars. That would also include new front discs as it's not really worth skimming them. Could be done cheaper with other makes which are fine as long as they are approved to ECE R 90 brake safety regulations.

Hope this helps if you need to no more just ask and I will try to help as we are Ferodo authorized agents and we also have a close working relationship with the local independent Mazda specialist

 

 

[berrti]

Thanks for the info Miniconverter.

 

Just one question - is less than 2 years reasonable for a set of rear disks to last.

 

I had figured that the pads would need replaced as at the last service the dealer reckoned they only had 3-4 k miles left of life.

 

The sheet the dealer supplied after the service indicated that the front disks required skimming and would be done under warrenty when the brake pads were done (good way of making sure the pads are replaced by them). There was no indication of any problem with the rear disks - the service was in October.

 

Thanks

Berrti

[miniconverter]

It's very difficult to say if 2 years is reasonable as it depends on the use the car gets. Is it a fine weather car that sits for long periods without use as this allows the discs to corrode. Personally I would say 2 years isn't very good but you have to remember they are a consumable item.

 

Try ringing Mazda customer services (not the dealer) and tell them how disappointed you are with it and how its your 4th or 5th Mazda (make it up) and you don't understand why it's like this as youve never had problems with them before and if the quality isn't as good as it used to be how you might buy something else next time they will probably authorize replacement of at least the discs as a good will payment.

 

Worked at a Nissan dealers a few years ago and just about every one that phoned Nissan and complained (nicely) about a car less than 5 years old got what they wanted.

[berrti]

The car is used regularly as it is my main means of transport.

 

I'll give Mazda customer services a call and see if they will help out.

 

My last car was a mazda and needed the front discs skimmed after 20 k miles so maybe it is the kind of disks that they use.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

I'll let you know what Mazda say.

 

Cheers

Berrti

[gbjadyy]

if you heard any grinding noises priortothe car going in for repair then theres a good chance the pads have worn right down and damaged the surface of the disks which will need replacing not skimming (disks are not skimmed anymore its no longer the the 1970's) they have given tolerences for wear and should always be replaced if below this tolerance, which is alwas down to wear an tear so warranties do not cover it.

warranties will only cover disks if there warped or if they phisically break (usually the result of a faulty caliper binding the the brakes on) even then it can be argued that the caliper binds due to wear and tear

[borisbeaver]

Brake disks are classed as a consumable items as it is their nature to wear evenutally.

 

If the pads were worn then you will have metal to metal contact and, as well as not allowing you to stop efficiently, will increase the rate at the disks wear.

[LancerQRL]

gbjadyy- disc skimming is back- the manufacturers use it as their get out for warrenty claims, peugeot had dealers re-skimming discs three or four years ago undr warrenty. mazda also seem to recommend it

[gbjadyy]

lancer thats funny i deal with warranty claims for all differnet manuafactuers and i dont know of it.

also how can you skim the disk surface when its already gone below its given tolerance??????????

i would say anyone that is willing to skim a disk that has already reached its wear limit is asking for touble on safety grounds.

i would certanly never recomend it and i dont recomend it for warranty claims !!!!!

[berry]

Hi It is my partners car. The brake pads had not worn out and it was only recommended to change them as they were nearing the end of their life. The disks were replaced due to corrosion no warping or damage just rust.

 

I have registered a complaint with mazda and they are in contact with the dealer to decide what to do.

 

As far as I am concerned they can refund the cost of the dics and the charges for fitting them or they will have lost a good customer (her previous car was a Mazda and both were bought new from the dealer).

 

Thanks

Berry

[LancerQRL]

as long as their is sufficient material left on discs then a skim to remove rust is not unreasonable- a lot of discs now have minimum thickness stamped\ cast into them

[miniconverter]

Disc skimming is now common in dealerships but normally only to resolve vibration problems caused by distortion and is done on car. Skimming is not normally used where corrosion is the problem as it is unsuitable due to the amount of material it is necessary to remove.

 

Very rare for discs to be skimed in the aftermarket due to cost of equipment and the low cost of after market discs.

 

Brake disc spec for 2 year old MX5 both 1.6 and 1.8 is

 

Front disc minimum thickness 16mm or 18mm with abs

Rear disc minimum thickness 7mm or 8mm with abs

Runout both front and rear 0.1mm

[RNSM]

skimming can be done to remove grooves from the disc, as long as the disc is still within limits. Interesting point is how many people sit at lights with their foot hard on the break pedal after a period of heavy driving, this can cause parts of the pad to cook onto the disc, as the disc is not moving and clearing this residue. Also how many garages actually fit these things properly and perform a disc run out check. I dont think i have ever seen one.

 

Could the rust have formed on an area where the pad wasnt effectively breaking on the disc. Skimming would again solve this with new pads.

[gbjadyy]

no need for run out check unless customer reports brake vibration other than that just check wether the disk is within its wear limits, £500 is steap though on the mazda, cost effective non-genuine ones are available for the mazda

[RNSM]

I was talking on new discs about the run out check. If its not done then as far as im concerned it isnt done right. The reasons for the check when fitting new discs are there for a reason (hub fitting, warpage and manufacturers tolerances) I have never liked the attitude of well fit and hope its okay and if it isnt then you can go out of your way and bring it back. In the meantime just dont put lots of miles on them and get disc variation thickness.

[LancerQRL]

mazda rx8 discs £320 per pair plus pads £58 plus fitting, mazda bits aint cheap hence the option to skim, cannot remember mx5 prices off the top of my head- but people sometimes prefer to fit only genuine parts.

[miniconverter]

Try MX5parts, Brakes genuine and cheaper than a Mazda dealer also supply non genuine. Can buy cheaper still but this gives an idea of what the man in the street can buy for

[berrti]

Sorry to resurect this thread but just had an MOT done on the car today and it failed on Front discs "pitted" and brake balance (front).

This is exactly what it failed on last year and had the disks and pads replaced then.

 

Surely it not realistic to require new pads and disks on the front evey year. (pads not worn out) and if it is how come the rear disks are ok (rear pads have only a little life left so need them replaced too).

 

Is it just me or do they think I am a cash cow.

 

NEVER EVER buy a Mazda from Arnold Clark

[Conniff]

If brake balance is out that sounds more like caliper problems than disc and pads.

I don't suppose you have had the fluid replaced as recommended.

[berrti]

Car has been dealer serviced from new so there should be no problems with fluid replacement. All parts have been genuine mazda parts and all servicing done within recommended limits.

 

When driving there is no sign of any problems - car does not pull, brakes in a straight line etc

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Folks!

 

Just a bit of bumf that may help, but few discs warp, the more common problem is known as Pad Imprinting.

 

What many do not know is the Disc and Pad do interact with each other at the atomic level under braking, with a flow of material both ways. That is the main reason for discs/pads to be bedded in when first fitted, i.e. to allow for this interaction to settle in.

 

Were that not the case, Pads would wear out very quickly. So, what happens is a steady bouncing back and forth of material between the two, and that's what helps braking and avoids excessive Pad wear. If it was just down to friction, the Pads would last about a week.

 

What can happen, particularly on fast/heavy Automatics that rely mostly on brakes to slow down with far less of the engine braking you get with manuals, is the brakes can get very hot during towing or fast driving then, when people stop at, say, Traffic Lights, they often keep their foot on the brake until the lights change (manual Drivers do this too). Thus, the Pads are kept pressed against the sometimes red hot discs, and a massive flow of Pad material can take place...leading to Pad Imprinting. That's the Pad Outlines sometimes seen on the Disc Face.

 

That Imprint is like a mini lump of material that does not react in the same way as the Disc surface elsewhere, and it's less efficient than straight metal at dispersing heat. Thus it's a Catch 22 situation, as then the problem can get worse, with localised hot spots at the Imprint causing more Imprinting. The end result is the Imprint area gets thicker and bigger until you can feel vibration under braking...that's often what people think is Disc Warping. Discs can warp, but Imprinting is arguably far more common.

 

You can't get rid of it with, say, sand paper or other means, as that adds a new material to the disc surface and can really mess things up.

 

Skimming a Disc in that situation is a good idea, as the amount of material that is removed may not be great...just enough to gets rid of the Pad Imprinting areas.

 

However, if it was me, I would just change the Discs!

 

But, I do have a Disc Skimmer I picked up from a bloke in a pub, and it can make a nice difference if the Discs are still fat with plenty of meat left on them. However, it's not a good idea if the Discs are old, shagged and/or thin!

 

In most cases, I would say just change the discs for a good set with good pads. Some Original Manufacturer's kit is really bad (KIA and Hyundai spring to mind all of a sudden), and a Car can be transformed with better quality parts.

 

Probably more than you wanted to know!

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited March 27, 2009 by banker_rhymes_with
Can't Spell. Can't type either, and I'm poop at Grammar!

[Conniff]

Your choices are as far as I can see, have them skimmed, (not really value for money), get the Mazda dealer to change them, (mortgages are not so easy to get at the moment), or change them yourself, (very easy job and cost about £60).

There is one more choice especially as you can't feel any fault in normal driving, get another garage to put it on their rollers and give you the read out, then you can take your choice which way to go if they again show imbalance.

[berrti]

A little update. Put the car into a different garage to be MOT'd again yesterday. result pass with NO advisories. I spoke to the mechanic and mentioned what had happened at Arnold Clark - his response was that there was nothing wrong with the brakes at all - corrosion was minimal and brake balance was fine. I had arranged for them to change the rear pads after the MOT hence why he didn't put an advisory on them. (no work had been done on the car before the second MOT)

 

Now thinking of calling VOSA and Mazda and possibly trading standards as arnold clark Mazda in Aberdeen are obviously a bunch of crooks.

Edited March 28, 2009 by berrti
add info