Littlewoods Court Action - Please HELP!!!!!

[babynan]

Please can anyone offer me some advise... I am new to this so please bear with me, I will try not to waffle but will try to explain as briefly as poss. I am trying to help my son,,,,, in 2001 he ordered some baby clothes from Littlewoods catalouge total about 150.00 and made payments, after sometime (and checking his statements properly) he noticed addtional chgs, he checked with Littlewoods and they explained that this was something called - Extra Care - He said that he did not want this but they said that he should have ticked the box on the order to say that this was not required and could not be changed now....(at the time he had just turned 19 so maybe was a bit young and silly not to have noticed this) he continuedpaying and paid over and above the 150.00 then stopped.... then Moorcroft contacted him ,theaten him with allsorts, the balance continued to rise. He paid odd amounts to keep the DCA off his back, the in Oct 2006 he told Moorcroft that he had now paid over 400.00 and was paying no more and explained about debt, they agreed in the end they would investigate this and get back to him. He heard no more. Time passed and then he had a letter from a company called Debt Mangers Ltd saying that he owed a further 395.33. He spoke many times on the phone with these people, explained that he thought that Moorcroft were investigating this... that was nothing to do with them they said. So he told them what had been bought and paid to date, they asked for this in writting, which he did (not recorded deliver) another letter from them demanding payment. He phoned they said there was no letter! so he said he would send again recorded this time, "ok but it has to reach us in 5 days because recorded or not, it will go into the bin" they also needed to know the date of the order from Littlewoods, so he gave all details but did not know the exact date, only that it was early 2001...... he has now received a letter from Russel+Aitkens informing him that they are advising him that they are serving notice to proceed to the county court for non-payment, in the mean time he could contact Debt Managers Ltd and pay off the total balance and get a good discount, or monthly payments with a lower discount!!!! if not on top of the 395.00 he will have further charges as follows: Solicitor fee 50.00, court fee for issue of claim form 40.00 and solicitors entry judgement 25.00.

I must mention that in the mean time I advised him to send the CCA, this was done and sent to Debt Managers Ltd. Yesterday he received a covering letter and a photocopy of a credit agreement from Littlewoods (not from Debt Managers Ltd) on this photocopy using a pen they have written in his name , address. where he should have signed and dated this is blank :o and only bears the signature on behalf of Littlewoods, they said that this is a copy of the copy agreement that he would of had !!!!!

He has also had a default entered by Littlewoods quite a while ago. He spoke with Debt Managers Ltd after hearing from Russel+Aikens and said that he thought that they were investigating, they said that the info he provided was not enough,,, they need the exact date of the original order from Littlewoods................He tried to speak with Russel+Aitkens and they said that when the time comes it would go to Rotherham court, when the time comes he can not get to a court that far away so how could he put his side across.......

Can someone please advise what should happen now, so far he has paid over 400.00 for goods that totalled 150.00 and now they still want another 395.33. Please excuse me if I am sound stupid asking about what to do but he is worried, he cannot afford this .What shoud he do now???

Thanks Babynan !!!!

[pmhcfc]

Please can anyone offer me some advise... I am new to this so please bear with me, I will try not to waffle but will try to explain as briefly as poss. I am trying to help my son,,,,, in 2001 he ordered some baby clothes from Littlewoods catalouge total about 150.00 and made payments, after sometime (and checking his statements properly) he noticed addtional chgs, he checked with Littlewoods and they explained that this was something called - Extra Care - He said that he did not want this but they said that he should have ticked the box on the order to say that this was not required and could not be changed now....(at the time he had just turned 19 so maybe was a bit young and silly not to have noticed this) he continuedpaying and paid over and above the 150.00 then stopped.... then Moorcroft contacted him ,theaten him with allsorts, the balance continued to rise. He paid odd amounts to keep the DCA off his back, the in Oct 2006 he told Moorcroft that he had now paid over 400.00 and was paying no more and explained about debt, they agreed in the end they would investigate this and get back to him. He heard no more. Time passed and then he had a letter from a company called Debt Mangers Ltd saying that he owed a further 395.33. He spoke many times on the phone with these people, explained that he thought that Moorcroft were investigating this... that was nothing to do with them they said. So he told them what had been bought and paid to date, they asked for this in writting, which he did (not recorded deliver) another letter from them demanding payment. He phoned they said there was no letter! so he said he would send again recorded this time, "ok but it has to reach us in 5 days because recorded or not, it will go into the bin" they also needed to know the date of the order from Littlewoods, so he gave all details but did not know the exact date, only that it was early 2001...... he has now received a letter from Russel+Aitkens informing him that they are advising him that they are serving notice to proceed to the county court for non-payment, in the mean time he could contact Debt Managers Ltd and pay off the total balance and get a good discount, or monthly payments with a lower discount!!!! if not on top of the 395.00 he will have further charges as follows: Solicitor fee 50.00, court fee for issue of claim form 40.00 and solicitors entry judgement 25.00.

I must mention that in the mean time I advised him to send the CCA, this was done and sent to Debt Managers Ltd. Yesterday he received a covering letter and a photocopy of a credit agreement from Littlewoods (not from Debt Managers Ltd) on this photocopy using a pen they have written in his name , address. where he should have signed and dated this is blank :o and only bears the signature on behalf of Littlewoods, they said that this is a copy of the copy agreement that he would of had !!!!!

He has also had a default entered by Littlewoods quite a while ago. He spoke with Debt Managers Ltd after hearing from Russel+Aikens and said that he thought that they were investigating, they said that the info he provided was not enough,,, they need the exact date of the original order from Littlewoods................He tried to speak with Russel+Aitkens and they said that when the time comes it would go to Rotherham court, when the time comes he can not get to a court that far away so how could he put his side across.......

Can someone please advise what should happen now, so far he has paid over 400.00 for goods that totalled 150.00 and now they still want another 395.33. Please excuse me if I am sound stupid asking about what to do but he is worried, he cannot afford this .What shoud he do now???

Thanks Babynan !!!!

 

The piece in red is the key-- They haven't complied to his CCA...How long have they had the CCA? They are in default (at best) so son doesn't have to pay anything whilst they remain in default...DON'T talk to anyone on the phone- everything in writing...They can get into a lot of trouble for threatening court action whislt account is in default....So, 1st question, when did they receive CCA ?

[gizmo111]

Send an SAR to Littlewoods also and see exactky what he is being charge for and claim back any unlawful charges.

[pmhcfc]

If they've had 12 working days + 1 month from receiving the CCA then there's another letter you should send (recorded delivery)..It's post# 12 on this thread > http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/73916-defauletd-cca.html

[babynan]

Hi,

Thanks for getting back thought that letter was too long and no one would read.

Anyway, in answer to your question, my son sent the CCA recorded delivery on the 02/03/07 and received this letter/doc yesterday.

One other question, how would the court know if the account is in default, could they go ahead with a hearing without my son knowing?

Regards Babynan

[babynan]

Send an SAR to Littlewoods also and see exactky what he is being charge for and claim back any unlawful charges.

 

Gizmo, thanks for this, should he send SAR now or wait until until the deadline for the proper response to the CCA?:-|

[gizmo111]

Gizmo, thanks for this, should he send SAR now or wait until until the deadline for the proper response to the CCA?:-|

 

I would send for it now - so you can claim back any charges etc regardless of the CCA response.

[babynan]

I would send for it now - so you can claim back any charges etc regardless of the CCA response.

 

Ok will do. could he claim back all the charges that are the 'extra care insurance' which was a percentage of the oustanding balance and added monthly and it kept growing, as well as their admin and late payment charges?

Once he has the account details I will follow up to see how to claim back from a mail order company.

[babynan]

The piece in red is the key-- They haven't complied to his CCA...How long have they had the CCA? They are in default (at best) so son doesn't have to pay anything whilst they remain in default...DON'T talk to anyone on the phone- everything in writing...They can get into a lot of trouble for threatening court action whislt account is in default....So, 1st question, when did they receive CCA ?

 

Hi,

Thanks for getting back thought that letter was too long and no one would read.

Anyway, in answer to your question, my son sent the CCA recorded delivery on the 02/03/07 and received this letter/doc yesterday.

One other question, how would the court know if the account is in default, could they go ahead with a hearing without my son knowing?

Regards Babynan:confused:

[babynan]

Oh one other question. It seems that they have not responded to the CCA correctly and that the info they sent is not a signed credit agreement, should I contact them again and tell them that this is not acceptable? any thoughts

Thanx

[gizmo111]

Try this modify to personalise

 

I refer to your letter dated 2 October 2006, in which you supplied me with an unsigned copy of your standard credit agreement. The supply of this standard leaflet in no way satisfies my request for documentation for the debt you allege exists – and I therefore do not acknowledge any debt to your company. For ease of reference I enclose a copy of that letter.

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

You were in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, on 8th September 2006 and one month later on 8th October you were guilty of committing a criminal offence.

I expect to hear from you within 10 days of this letter, acknowledging that this debt is indeed unenforceable, else you leave me with no alternative but to contact Bolton Trading Standards, and any other relevant statutory bodies to advise them of your conduct.

In your letter dated 2 October 2006 you refer to a firm of collectors, I fully expect you to advise them that this alleged debt is unenforceable also.

 

Take note, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested

[babynan]

Many thanks, I will get this done straight away. I will update once I hear anything back from them.........

[babynan]

Try this modify to personalise

 

I refer to your letter dated 2 October 2006, in which you supplied me with an unsigned copy of your standard credit agreement. The supply of this standard leaflet in no way satisfies my request for documentation for the debt you allege exists – and I therefore do not acknowledge any debt to your company. For ease of reference I enclose a copy of that letter.

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

You were in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, on 8th September 2006 and one month later on 8th October you were guilty of committing a criminal offence.

I expect to hear from you within 10 days of this letter, acknowledging that this debt is indeed unenforceable, else you leave me with no alternative but to contact Bolton Trading Standards, and any other relevant statutory bodies to advise them of your conduct.

In your letter dated 2 October 2006 you refer to a firm of collectors, I fully expect you to advise them that this alleged debt is unenforceable also.

 

Take note, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested

HI Gizmo.

I have just realised, although I said that I would send this off straight away, should I wait until the final month (30 days) has passed as well before I send this because it is stating that the debt in unenforceable, which in my understanding in not the case until after the 1 month dead line, I am not sure if it is just me being thick or just confused............

thanx

[gizmo111]

The debt is unenforceable after 12 working days - they are in default then - one month later they have committed a crimianl offence.

[molly316]

Following this from the link on http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/62218-replies-my-cca-requests.html#post648999

 

Let us know how you get on hun

 

M x

[babynan]

Hi

Wonder if anyone can help further or advice. We have sent letter as advised by Gizmo regarding the the response to our CCA. I now have copies from my son that he got back in regards to this request, details from covering letter shown below, I have attached the copy of the CA agreement that was sent to him. Could someone please take a look and let me know if what they are saying is correct and if the credit agreement is also correct, would really appreciate any help at all:

 

Covering letter:

If a Third Party is acting for you please refer this letter to them

With reference to your letter requesting a copy of the credit agreement

Under sections 77 and 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 we are required to provide a copy of the executed agreement (if any). On the assumption that you have signed the agreement supplied to you at the time of opening your account. We enclose a copy of our agreement, which complies, with the requirements of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.

Is this correct, that the copy they have sent him has been signed on their behalf but where his signature is required and dates etc there are x's where he should have signed (these are blank), does this mean that they should not have had, nor did they expect a signed copy to have been returned to them, he should have signed his own copy only and kept for his own ref... so therefore this makes the agreement lawful???

 

They are still putting admin , interest, and insurance charges against this account although all of the original balance +, has been paid off, as per my my earlier postings.

The SAR has been sent, Also the letter informing the DCA that the Copy of the CA is not good enough, this has also gone to Littlewoods and the Solicitors acting on behalf of Debt Managers.............what should we do next?????? Or is what they are saying correct and my son will have to pay the rest of the money that they say is outstanding (all interest and charges)

[babynan]

Bump

[babynan]

Hi

Wonder if anyone can help further or advice. We have sent letter as advised by Gizmo regarding the the response to our CCA. I now have copies from my son that he got back in regards to this request, details from covering letter shown below, I have attached the copy of the CA agreement that was sent to him. Could someone please take a look and let me know if what they are saying is correct and if the credit agreement is also correct, would really appreciate any help at all:

 

Covering letter:

 

If a Third Party is acting for you please refer this letter to them

 

With reference to your letter requesting a copy of the credit agreement

 

Under sections 77 and 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 we are required to provide a copy of the executed agreement (if any). On the assumption that you have signed the agreement supplied to you at the time of opening your account. We enclose a copy of our agreement, which complies, with the requirements of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.

 

 

Is this correct, that the copy they have sent him has been signed on their behalf but where his signature is required and dates etc there are x's where he should have signed (these are blank), does this mean that they should not have had, nor did they expect a signed copy to have been returned to them, he should have signed his own copy only and kept for his own ref... so therefore this makes the agreement lawful???

 

They are still putting admin , interest, and insurance charges against this account although all of the original balance +, has been paid off, as per my my earlier postings.

The SAR has been sent, Also the letter informing the DCA that the Copy of the CA is not good enough, this has also gone to Littlewoods and the Solicitors acting on behalf of Debt Managers.............what should we do next?????? Or is what they are saying correct and my son will have to pay the rest of the money that they say is outstanding (all interest and charges)

 

PLease can anyone help and let me know....is this correct that the agreement does not have to be signed when it is for mail order as shown in the response in my quote.......... HELP:o

[MinnieMouser]

I don't know the answer to this entirely but it would appear to me that if the agreement has not been signed and returned by your son then they should not have opened up a credit account for him in the first place. So in that sense it's not a properly executed credit agreement, all they have is what would have been the agreement had your son signed it.

 

Perhaps your local Trading Standards office can have a look at it for you and confirm this.

 

MM

[gizmo111]

Try this modify to personalise

 

I refer to your letter dated 2 October 2006, in which you supplied me with an unsigned copy of your standard credit agreement. The supply of this standard leaflet in no way satisfies my request for documentation for the debt you allege exists – and I therefore do not acknowledge any debt to your company. For ease of reference I enclose a copy of that letter.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

You were in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, on 8th September 2006 and one month later on 8th October you were guilty of committing a criminal offence.

 

I expect to hear from you within 10 days of this letter, acknowledging that this debt is indeed unenforceable, else you leave me with no alternative but to contact Bolton Trading Standards, and any other relevant statutory bodies to advise them of your conduct.

 

In your letter dated 2 October 2006 you refer to a firm of collectors, I fully expect you to advise them that this alleged debt is unenforceable also.

 

Take note, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested

 

Please re read this letter

[babynan]

Hi Gizmo,

Once again thanks. This is a bit new to me so I am a little confused because of what the Debtors are telling me. But I have read through many threads now and am beinging to understand the way that some of these companies work. I have taken parts of you letter and bits from another and sent this today....this is what I sent

 

 

This alleged debt is in dispute

Dear Sirs,

I am in receipt of your letter dated 13th March 2007 letter ref: CCA2 in relation to my request for you to supply me with a true certified copy of the credit agreement under which this account is conducted. You have enclosed a copy of a recently printed agreement which is not what I requested and does not comply with your legal requirements. .

 

Once again I remind you of your duty to supply all documentation under sections 77 and 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. . In addition to a signed Credit Agreement a statement of my accountshould have beensentalong with any other documents. If you are not sure of your responsibilities and the exact documentation you are required to supply under this act, then I suggest you research thoroughly in order to carry out your legal obligations.

 

I remind you that you are currently in default under s78 [6]of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and that non-compliance with my request is an offence.

Furthermore you are reminded that under the same sub section,

whilst the default continues you are not entitled to enforce the agreement in law.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully .

 

What do you think:?: will this ok,

 

Once agian Gizmo thanks for you guidance on this matter....

[babynan]

Ok letter was sent to Littlewoods for non-compliance. Copies also went to Debt Managers Ltd plus the Solicitors working for Debt Managers Ltd . (Just making sure that all bases are covered)

 

Also SAR has been sent to Littlewoods, along with the 10.00 .......

Lets wait and see what happens next......

 

[Laiste]

Hi Babynan,

 

Sorry for the delay in replying to your PM. From what you have described, the document they have sent you in no way represents a legally valid credit agreement. Unless you purchase very high value goods for eg. a computer from them, catalogue companies for the most part do not supply a credit agreement, for reasons best known only to them!:idea: If you are prepared to send me a copy of what they've sent you, I'll tell you definitively if it is an agreement or not, although in my experience of catalogues, they have about as much idea about what what constitutes a valid legal agreement, as I do about quantam physics!:o

 

Has anyone started legal proceedings against your son? Look, don't worry, if they have they cannot do it behind his back. He will receive a claim pack. As for where the case would be heard, this is another frightener to get your son to pay up. The case would be transferred to your son's local county court. The comments they make are all used as leverage to get more money out of him. Don't take anything they say, (even if it's solicitors) as read, always verify it here, or with another 3rd party you can trust who has experience of such matters.

 

Before I get to other matters, the golden rules with correspondence are:-

1. Keep copies of everything you send.

2. Send EVERYTHING by recorded or guaranteed next day delivery. The latter is my preference, as recorded is not a foolproof method.

3. Keep everything any of the companies send you.

4. Do everything by post, stay completely clear of telephone calls!

 

Was the SAR sent by recorded or guaranteed delivery? If it wasn't don't be surprised if they claim they haven't received it and you won't be able to prove it! I know it's extra expense, but I would re-send it with the fee in the form of a postal order, if it hasn't been sent by r/d or g/d.

 

The insurance should not have been added if it wasn't requested, that's an unfair contract term and it most certainly should have been removed when your son made that request. There will undoubtedly be a great deal of charges that have been added that are reclaimable. Here's the best bit of this whole situation, in my opinion this debt in all likelihood is entirely unenforceable. I think your son has a valid claim against the catalogue company for unlawful harassment, unlawful processing of his personal data (including the default added to his credit file), the unlawful addition of charges and insurance and the repayment of all monies your son has paid to the catalogue company as in the absence of a credit agreement, they have been unjustly enriched.

 

I hope this is helpful and let me know if I can be of further help.

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.

[babynan]

Hi Laiste,

 

Many thanks, this really helps to clarify and makes me feels a lot more sure going forward.

Please see my PM in regards to a copy of the agreement.

 

THANX

[babynan]

Ok letter was sent to Littlewoods for non-compliance. Copies also went to Debt Managers Ltd plus the Solicitors working for Debt Managers Ltd . (Just making sure that all bases are covered)

 

 

Guess what.................. seems that the only letter out of these three to be delivered was the copy to the solicitors????? The one to Littlewoods and copy to Debt Managers has NOT been delivered........ strange this as they were all sent at the same time and were recorded delivery........ so maybe I should send another copy to each of these again....

They are already in default as of the 16/17 March, should I do anything further about this default i.e. shoud I report it all or not at this stage.

 

Also Laiste thanks for confirming that the CA that has been sent so far invalid anyway. lets see if they can send anything better !!!!!