"live" debt - council tax

[ali-bali]

Hi I am new and hoping that someone can help me.

 

basically I have been in dispute with my old council over a council tax bill I paid in 1999. They quried it in 1999 and I was able to prove payment at that time, however they took legal action without informing me and say it took them until 2004 to "find" me. I wasn't aware that I was hiding.

Anyway after the ombudsman was involved and the council fined, they wrote and told me that they had ceased recovery action but reserved the right to collect the tax whilst it is still a "live" debt.

 

This was in Jan 2005 and I heard nothing on the matter since. Until yesterday when I received another demand.

 

So what is a "live" debt and is there any rules etc on time frames etc.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Guest louis wu]

I suspect they are refering to the 6 year rule.

 

If a debt is known, and yet the creditor has not persued that debt for over 6 years it is unenforcable. (when I say not persued, I mean no communication at all regarding it)

 

From your post 1999 - 2004 is 5 years.

 

The interesting point is you say that you proved the debt had been paid. Do you still have that proof?

 

Supply a few more details and I am sure you will get plenty of help/advice.

 

good luck

[happyolddog]

Hi Ali-Bali

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

You might find some information and letter templates via this link.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-consumer-issues/51998-how-complain-comprehensive-guide.html

 

GOOD lUCK.

HOD.

[gerald breese]

I had a coucil tax bill like you then it was changed to say they cancelled my council tax benefit given while I was off injured , saying i had a mrs chappel and her sonliving with me, creating amuch larger bill. they then went to the magistrates court and informed my employer that they are taking 17.5 PERCENT OF MY SALARY AFTER THEY WERE PARTLY TO BLAME FOR MY ACCIDENT. WHEN i QUERIED WAKEFIELD COUNCIL THEY SAID THEY ARE ONLY THE COLLECTION SIDE AND HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH APPEALS. Its like NAZI germany you have no rights they can do what they like without fear, so they added £1100 to my account and they are my wages without me being told or anyone checking my medical condition. Looks like governments have deserted us to often these supposed charity mini empires . I think you'll have nothing to protect you like me and have to pay.

[ali-bali]

Unfortunately I don't have any proof. The bill was paid in 1999 in cash and I received a receipt. I settled the bill just before we moved house.

the council then sent final demands about two months later which I received no problem as I had the post redirected for 18months. I was able to give them copies of the receipt and received a letter stating that the account was settled. I received no other correspondencef rom them.

 

In 2001 we moved house again and I only kept bills etc from that house and threw out all paperwork we had for the previous address as it had been rented and there was no need to keep any of it.

 

Then in 2004 the council "find me". Keeping in mind my mail had been redirected for 18 months previously and 2 years at the next address.

It was felt at the time and by the ombudsman that the council had left it as long as possible to "find" us as they are paid on a bonus scheme on outstanding debit, the older the debt the more money they get paid!

 

So basically a debt can be kept "alive" by the council as long as they keep sending out demands every couple of years and make me go through the whole process of the complaints procedure etc. each time.

 

I just feel its bully tactics.

 

I can l no onger prove that I paid the bill, they no longer have records, but their computer system must be right so their ok then. At the time I paid the bill there was a large number of problems within the council including housing money going missing and employees were fired and charged.

 

It took us over a year the last time to go though everything and I hate the thought of the bailiffs letters arriving again but I refuse to pay a bill I already paid nearly 8 years ago.

[Guest louis wu]

Ali, I sympathise

 

The only crumb of comfort I can offer, is that the council have to prove you owe the debt. They will have to have reasons for not persuing this earlier ( I know you was, er, missing?), and will need to justify this, however, they are the council, and normal rules of behaviour dont seem to apply.

 

I suggest asking a mod to move this thread to a more appropriate forum (general debt seems to be the one), as you will get 'better' advice there. (if you dont know how to do that, then post again and I will do it for you).

 

Louis

[ali-bali]

Thanks Louis, I didn't know if this was the right place for my question. If you could get it moved for me that would be great.

Ali

[ali-bali]

Also forgot to ask.

You say earlier that the debt has to have been persued within the 6 years. Basically then by leaving it to the last minute and then contacting the person owing the debt another 6 year time limit is started at that point meaning that the debt can be kept "alive" indefinately. Is that right.

Ali

[Guest louis wu]

I'm afraid that is correct.

 

I have asked for this post to be moved so if it disappears, you know where it has gone to.

[MARTIN3030]

Thread moved here.

For issues concerning debt collectors see the threads in the Debt action group forums

[gerald breese]

I have no idea how to post things it appears a bit above me I got the one you read by accident so if you would post anything i post again I would appreciate it. also can you put an idiots guide to posting on thank you gerald breese

[gerald breese]

put an idiots guide to posting on log in page please

[gerald breese]

I had a coucil tax bill like you then it was changed to say they cancelled my council tax benefit given while I was off injured , saying i had a mrs chappel and her sonliving with me, creating amuch larger bill. they then went to the magistrates court and informed my employer that they are taking 17.5 PERCENT OF MY SALARY AFTER THEY WERE PARTLY TO BLAME FOR MY ACCIDENT. WHEN i QUERIED WAKEFIELD COUNCIL THEY SAID THEY ARE ONLY THE COLLECTION SIDE AND HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH APPEALS. Its like NAZI germany you have no rights they can do what they like without fear, so they added £1100 to my account and they are my wages without me being told or anyone checking my medical condition. Looks like governments have deserted us to often these supposed charity mini empires . I think you'll have nothing to protect you like me and have to pay.

[happyolddog]

A little help just for you.

Hi Gerald.

Firstly welcome.

Now if thats your real name please get a user name.Please read this.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....o-not-use.html

 

Then via next link introduce yourself, state what bank you are with.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....wthrea d&f=84

Also please read these, via link.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....se-read-these/

We all have to start somwhere,

Good Luck.

Happyolddog.

[sequenci]

Firstly, the limitation act 1980 doesn't apply to council tax debt.

 

there could still be a "six year argument" but it would depend on when the payment became due.

 

Under reg. 34(3) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992, The local authority may not apply for a liability order after "the period of six years beginning with the day on which it becomes due".

 

Under reg. 19 a local authority is required to serve a demand notice on a liable person "on or as soon as practible after the day the billing authority first sets the amount of council tax for the relevant year"

 

Under Regentford v Thanet District Council it was held that the limitation period for the issue of proceedings for a liability order runs from the date that a demand for payment is first served on the council tax payer. This would be subject to acknowledgment and part-payment.