hsbc v sbennett ***WON***

[darkrage]

any chance of some advice lattie - i am 3 days away from my 3rd nudge letter with no response from dg with the first 2 i know this is not uncommon but where do i go from here after the 3rd nudge.

 

should i contact the courts asking when my case will be heard or is there other means to push dg ie a letter asking for defence to be stricken out due to dg's total lack of trying to sort this out?

 

im not disheartened or anythin just really need money from them before august (getting married) although it is not a problem just id rather spend there money than mine on the honeymoon will just make it feel nicer.

[Castlebest]

Hiya DR, yes phone up the court to see whats happening with your claim there and see if there is anything they need from you (again) .

 

When did DG have to get their bundle into the court ? have they done it yet ?.... if its overdue have a look ar rob the vikings thread, last few posts and adapt the DEFENCE strike out letter to your needs.

 

pete

[darkrage]

hi cb - tbh i have not heard from the court since the judge looked at the case and dispensed with the aq -(still charged me tho) that was nearly 30 days ago so dont know anythin about the court bundles and have not had a court date - i will phone them tomoz and see what is happening.

 

think im stuck in limbo atm lol

[darkrage]

hey peeps -

 

i have phoned the court and the nice lady has said my case is in a pile waiting to be given direction by the judge the defence has been filed and it will be going to a hearing soon but she could not tell me when until after the judge gives his direction. Also she stated that the court is inundated with this type of claim and is approximately 2 weeks behind regarding these cases.

 

so i will prepare nudge letter number 3 for posting on wednesday. think i may prepare the letter for informing court of settlement of claim (may as well get it ready as i will need it eventually)

[darkrage]

should i do a draft order with nudge number 3 and try to force dg's hand (would need help with this tho) just read sharongina's thread and she has sent one in to the judge - would this be a good idea to do also in my case

 

if i get it in to the judge before he gives direction that is - may annoy him tho which i dont want to do.

 

i would need t&c's from 1993 and 2005 or closest to those dates i think aswell for the draft order.

 

some guidance would be appreciated.

[Castlebest]

Hiya DR, have a read of the last few posts on these two threads they have Latties and my thoughts and a draft letter by Lattie.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/89538-sharongina-hsbc-court-direction.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/75545-welshbaba-hsbc.html

 

pete

[darkrage]

ok castlebest i have read thru those but it would seem some of the questions raised were on other threads. so i have read thru latties no aq thread and i am going to use and edit the draft order letter and draft order i will however need those T&C's for 1993 and 2005 if you could point me in the right direction to get these i would be most gratefull.

 

also i will post my edited versions of draft letter and draft order for you to view before i post on wednesday.

 

thanks for all the help everyone

[Castlebest]

I think Freaky is most up to date where the T&C's are at the moment and of course as ever Lattie, not sure myself so I will leave them to answer the T&C's question.

 

pete

[darkrage]

ok this is the letter from latties post

 

******

******

 

The Court Manager

********

*****

 

 

11th June 11, 2007

Dear Mrs Rogers

 

Sbennett -v- HSBC Bank Plc

Claim Number: *******

 

It is noted that in my case referenced above that the Allocation Questionnaire has been dispensed with. I am aware that this is likely due to the large volume of claims that consumers are bring against the high street banks. I am also aware that to date the banks have failed to defend a case in the courts and that they often use the court process to extend and delay the period of time within which they deal with these matters satisfactorily.

In light of this the Claimant respectfully suggests that special directions may be made as per the enclosed draft order.

The Claimant believes the proposed directions will further the Overriding Objectives in that they identify the most fundamental issues in dispute (as detailed below), and allow them to be assessed in advance of any hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously.

- The crux upon which this claim rests is the true loss suffered by the Defendant as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendant cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's.

 

- In the event that the Defendant's charges were accepted as being a fee for a service (which is refuted), examination of its true costs is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

The Claimant believes that if the Defendant ha s the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence, that it is incumbent on it to disclose such information. Further, the proposed directions are already routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Northampton and Mansfield County Courts.

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that this claim be allocated to the small claims track, and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

Steven Bennett

 

enc: Draft Order

[darkrage]

so with regards to that letter and the draft order - i would need to send a copy to dg aswell with a cover note asking for it to be added to my file.

 

could i word the beginning of the draft order letter as not to offend the judge any ideas or just send as is?

 

edit*** hi im tryin to word the second nudge letter into a 3rd nudge letter but include the fact i am asking for a draft order to be considered by the judge and get dg to add a copy of the letter to the judge and a copy of the draft order to my file. if you have suggestions on how to change nudge letter 2 to accomodate this i would be very very gratefull - i will post my attempt shortly.

[darkrage]

ok here is my attempt

 

DG Solicitors

12 Calthorpe Road

Edgbaston

Birmingham

B15 1QZ

 

Date: 13/06/2007

 

Re: SBennett - v - HSBC

account no’s, *********

Case no ****** and filing date ******

 

 

 

I am writing you today in a further effort to ask you to consider my claim and also to inform you I have sent a request for a draft order to be considered by the judge I have enclosed a copy of this letter along with the draft order and a schedule of charges to be added to my file.

 

 

I have written to you in the past, asking for you to consider my claim and reply to me. I have heard nothing. Were this to come before a judge, it is obvious who is making any and all attempts at resolution.

It is my feeling that you seem to have no intention of defending this claim in court and are simply procrastinating.

 

I am mindful of the vast number of claims with which you and the courts are currently dealing. In order to more speedily resolve this matter, I am willing to accept the sum of £2672.00 this sum includes (£2042.41) charges, (£220.00) court cost’s, (£409.59) interest plus a daily interest rate of £0.45 per day from the date I filed the claim until the date it is resolved as a full and final settlement of this particular claim. I do not agree to waive my rights in respect of any other actions, nor do I agree to a clause of confidentiality.

 

I hope to hear from you very soon so that a reasonable conclusion to this claim might be achieved. I am sure that the courts would whole heartedly approve of our settling this matter in a timely manner and without their further intervention. I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Sincerely,

Steven Bennett

[lateralus]

you guys think i know what i'm doing - i don't!!!!

anyway - jowalshy changed the cover letter a little and you can do the same - you'll see what i mean - make it more specific to your case.

 

so, here's what we got to on another thread:

 

 

HERE IS THE DRAFT ORDER INFO - PLUS LETTER AND THE ORDER.

HERE'S ANOTHER BIG ADDITION TO THIS THREAD AS OF FRIDAY 6 APRIL

 

It has been suggested by Bookworm in this thread:

Is your court dispensing with the Allocation Questionnaire?

that if you find yourself in this position - you send the Draft Direction to the court you've now been transferred to - the same as if you were filing an AQ using the new strategy:

New strategy for Allocation Questionaires

So, this would mean a cover note like this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Your address]

The Court Manager

****** County Court

Court Address

Court P/code

 

 

[date]

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

 

 

 

You -v- Bank Plc

Claim Number: *******

 

 

 

 

It is noted that in my case referenced above that the Allocation Questionnaire has been dispensed with. I am aware that this is likely due to the large volume of claims that consumers are bring against the high street banks. I am also aware that to date the banks have failed to defend a case in the courts and that they often use the court process to extend and delay the period of time within which they deal with these matters satisfactorily.

 

 

 

 

In light of this the Claimant respectfully suggests that special directions may be made as per the enclosed draft order.

 

 

 

 

The Claimant believes the proposed directions will further the Overriding Objectives in that they identify the most fundamental issues in dispute (as detailed below), and allow them to be assessed in advance of any hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously.

 

 

 

 

- The crux upon which this claim rests is the true loss suffered by the Defendant as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendant cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's.

 

 

 

 

- In the event that the Defendant's charges were accepted as being a fee for a service (which is refuted), examination of its true costs is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

 

 

 

The Claimant believes that if the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence, that it is incumbent on it to disclose such information. Further, the proposed directions are already routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Northampton and Mansfield County Courts.

 

 

 

 

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that this claim be allocated to the small claims track, and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

 

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

 

[name]

 

 

 

 

enc: Draft Order

 

 

 

 

 

THEN ON A SEPARATE PIECE OF PAPER - THIS:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Draft Order for Directions

 

 

 

 

 

1. The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

• a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount, and reason given (if any) for that charge being made;

• b) Copies of any statement or other document relied upon as showing that each and every charge has been made;

• c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise;

• d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

 

 

2. The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve a response to the Claimant's schedule, stating in respect of each item claimed;

• a) Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, producing a copy of the contractual document relied upon;

• b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not;

• c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss, and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with the matter was;

• d) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable.

• e) Any witness statements.

• f) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

 

 

 

 

 

the letter jowalshy wrote which is a little different to the one above - if you choose to use it - attach the draft order and send it off.

i can't find a copy of it - so i'll ask her to put it here for you - it just refers to the court date, i think. she will put it here for you.

 

 

 

ok, i found where we had changed it a bit - so the cover letter would look like this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Your address]

The Court Manager

****** County Court

Court Address

Court P/code

 

 

[date]

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

It is noted that in my case referenced above that the Allocation Questionnaire has been dispensed with and that a date for a Preliminary Hearing has been set for 25th July 2007 at 10.00am. I am aware that this is likely due to the large volume of claims that consumers are bring against the high street banks. I am also aware that to date HSBC have failed to defend a case in the courts and that they often use the court process to extend and delay the period of time within which they deal with these matters satisfactorily

 

In light of this the Claimant respectfully suggests that special directions may be made as per the enclosed draft order. I think that this would expediate the matter, which will hopefully lead to an early resolution and therefore making a court date unnecessary.

 

 

The Claimant believes the proposed directions will further the Overriding Objectives in that they identify the most fundamental issues in dispute (as detailed below), and allow them to be assessed in advance of any hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously.

 

 

 

 

- The crux upon which this claim rests is the true loss suffered by the Defendant as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendant cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's.

 

 

 

 

- In the event that the Defendant's charges were accepted as being a fee for a service (which is refuted), examination of its true costs is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

 

 

 

The Claimant believes that if the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence, that it is incumbent on it to disclose such information. Further, the proposed directions are already routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Northampton and Mansfield County Courts.

 

 

 

 

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that this claim be allocated to the small claims track, and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

 

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

 

[name]

 

 

 

 

enc: Draft Order

 

 

 

 

obviously change the orange line to your specifics.

bottom line is - if the judge approves and orders it - everything moves way forward - dg won't do it and so will make an offer.usually just after the 14 days

[darkrage]

hi lattie

 

you fibber you do know what your doing hihi

 

ok so here is the thing my hearing date has not been set yet as the judge has a pile of files with mine being in there somewhere what i want to do is send the draft order anyway before the judge gives his directions (which i was told by the clerk to be the next step) so unfortunatly i can not make it anymore personnal to my case.

 

so am i ok just sending the standard cover letter for the draft order and the letter i wrote above to dg as the third nudge including the draft order and copy of the letter the the court.

 

would this be ok?

[lateralus]

that's fine, steve - (not near as threatening sounding as darkrage!)

[darkrage]

have printed 3 copies of draft cover note - 3 copies of the draft order - 1 copy of updated schedule - 2 copies of the nudge letter.

 

• now 1 copy of cover note and draft order to the court manager via recorded delivery.

• 1 copy of cover note, draft order, nudge letter sent to dg via recorded delivery.

• 1 copy of everything for my file (which is starting to get fat).

hopefully i make it in time before the judge gives direction in my case

 

thx again for the help will start reading up about the bundle hopefully i wont need it and this will give dg the push required.

[darkrage]

lattie ahhhhhhhhhh

 

my draft order was posted out today 4pm recorded delivery but also this morning my parents recieved 2 letters

 

1 from the court stating my case will be heard on the 23rd july and i should do the court bundle blah blah

 

and 1 from hsbc saying they arew to consider the matter closed if i dont reply to the rubbish offer they made me lol

 

so my questions is it still ok for the judge to recieve the draft order after giving his directions (i dont see too much of a problem)

 

and regarding mr lokers letter i did do one but i did not send it due to dg filing a defence so should i send them a letter explaingin that i have a court date and explain that i had declined the offer through their solicitors weeks ago. this bit i stumped on.

[darkrage]

bump

 

the letter to mr loker should i accept the sum now as a part payment even tho i have a court date?????

 

or is it best just to decline the offer in light of a court date set??

 

help:eek:

[lateralus]

as for the draft order - that's fine (when is your court bundle due according to those directions?)

 

as for mr. loker - you can write and tell him you have now filed and as such it would take xxxx.xx for it to go away. give him your claim date and claim no. and tell him you would accept that amount as partial - with the understanding that you will pursue the rest through the courts. it will just go away anyway...but do it that way. rejecting offers in the library.

[darkrage]

9th july for court bundle.

 

here is mr loker letter

 

Date 12/06/07

 

Service Quality Team

HSBC Bank plc

Arlington Business Center

Millshaw Park Lane

Leeds

LS11 0PP

 

Re: Accounts: xxxxxxx

Sort Code xxxx

Claim No: xxxxxxxxx in Mold County Court

Hearing Date: 23rd July 2007

 

Response to settlement offer.

 

Dear Mr. Loker

 

Thank you for your letter dated 11/06/07

 

I respectfully decline your offer as Full and Final settlement and request, that you return to me all charges imposed on this account, Court cost’s and Interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year totalling £2651.00.

I will accept the sum offered only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that I will pursue recovery of the remainder, with a County Court claim which is to be heard on the 23rd July 2007 at Mold County Court.

 

My Letter Before Action dated 26/03/2007 indicated that you had until 09/04/2007 to respond before I proceeded to the next stage of my request, court action was issued on the 16/04/2007 and deemed served on the 19/04/2007. My deadline remains the same despite this offer. I find it unacceptable that you have left this offer until after court action had been deemed served.

I require that you inform your legal department (DG solicitors) of my intentions to accept this sum as part settlement, For the avoidance of doubt, I wish to stress that I do not accept your offer under the terms stated in your letter.

 

 

If you do accept my conditions for acceptance please could you send a cheque to the above address due to me not holding an open account with HSBC Plc.

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

Steven Bennett

[lateralus]

dr, did you ask me why we highlight 7.13 in the t & c?

can't remember who asked me....

 

this is why pete says highlight 7.13 - Why highlight clause 7.13??

 

castlebest said:

Because it says you're not allowed to go over your limits or they will penalise you... proves your charges are penalties and you have won.

 

pete

[darkrage]

no it was not me lattie i believe it was sharongina but castlebest answered for you - i read it that one too.

 

i sent out the above letter to mr loker by recorded delivery today so hopefully i will recieve a cheque for part settlement of the claim.

 

if they do send it me do i need to inform the court that i have recieved a part settlement of the claim and will be still continueing on until they pay me the full amount or is there no need for this?

[lateralus]

believe me they won't send it.

[darkrage]

bugger

[darkrage]

hey lattie when do you suggest i get my court bundle ready. i was thinking beginning of july and posted on the 5th or maybe next week so its done as its my stag doo on the 30th june.

[lateralus]

think you 'll be handcuffed naked to some bridge that week, huh?!

it takes one full day - and you must not be late -

i'd be inclined to send a last nudge to dg - pointing out the day they can plan to receive your court bundle - make it crystal clear that it will be there. i keep thinking they will start acting earlier but to now that hasn't happened. i'd take a look at loidphil's thread - he indicated in his letter how he was going to file for the wasted time order - they didn't send the offer early but they did send an extra 100 because of it. in a nudge hint that a pre bundle offer could make you feel inclined not to file the wasted time claim.