20 year claim limit in Scotland & other ramblings

[Guest bong]

Mm, problem is I can't find a full 'transcript' of the case on google. I think it is in Paget's Law of Banking which costs about £400 and my library doesn't appear to have a reference copy.

[Robertxc]

Is it an English or Scottish case?

[Guest bong]

I think (but I don't know for sure) that the KB would stand for kings bench which would mean England.

[Guest bong]

however, it has been cited in a Scottish court I believe COMPANGNIE COMMERCIALE ANDRE S.A. v. ARTIBELL SHIPPING CO LTD+THE GOVERNOR AND COMPANY OF THE BANK OF SCOTLAND, 21 February 2001, Lord Macfadyen

[Robertxc]

See also here:

40 Under Section 5 of the Limitation Act of 1980 and similar predecessor

legislation, an action may not be brought after the expiration of six

years from the date on which the cause of action accrued. In relation to

debt recovery, time does not begin to run until there is a debt presently

due and payable. In Joachimson v. Swiss Bank Corporation, 1921 3 KB

110, the Court held that a bank is not liable to pay the customer the full

amount of his balance until demand is made. The Court further held

that “the practical bearing of this decision [as to the necessity for a

demand] is on the question of the statute of limitations . . . the result of

this decision will be that for the future bankers may have to face claims

for balances on accounts that have remained dormant for more than six

years.” Id. at 130-131. Thus, under Joachimson, time does not begin to

run against the customer until demand for payment has been made, irrespective of the amount of time that has elapsed since the last transaction relating to the account. See, however, the Court of Appeal decision Mahomed v. Bank of Borada (November 16, 1998) which held that if, following a demand for payment, the dormant account holder did not

renew his claim within six years and the bank closed the account or

transferred the account to a suspense account, the dormant account

holder would be time-barred from making a fresh demand.

Taken from here: http://www.crt-ii.org/ICEP/ICEP_Report_Annexes_1-9.pdf

[mcuth]

40 Under Section 5 of the Limitation Act of 1980 and similar predecessor legislation, an action may not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued. In relation to

debt recovery, time does not begin to run until there is a debt presently due and payable.

Oh now, I like that phrase - that sets it a bit clearer than the demand for the return of deposited funds, I think - especially when accounts have been longstanding overdrawn. In that then, the prelim letter is our establishment of debt due and payable.....?

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[Guest bong]

I haven't really thought this through Michael but I was thinking that it could be argued that money the bank says you owe (overdraft) is as good as money in the bank for these purposes, in the first instance the refund due will perhaps be applied in reduction of the overdraft and in the second, it will result in a cheque being issued in your name.

[Guest bong]

and Michael, something further to think of, money that you have paid into the overdrawn account (assuming you have:p ) would have remained there if the charges part of the overdraft hadn't swallowed it up.

[mcuth]

Bong - hmmm, I'm not convinced. When I get a chance, I'll resurrect that bit of the discussion on your other thread on the demand for return (the overdrawn balance is the one bit of that argument that I don't like)

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[jo24]

Hi there!

I'm new to this & i'm in the process of claiming my bank charges back from the clydesdale bank (scotland). Can someone please tell me whether i can claim back 5 or 6yrs or further? as my claim is now being dealt with down in leeds @ yorkshire bank not @ head office in glasgow as i initially thought. I've recieved a letter from them saying that they are dealing with my complaint & will try get back to me shortly. I'm unsure what to do next, can some1 HELP plz?!!! Thanx

[Guest bong]

jo24 sorry I can't help you with your query. I hope someone else will be along.

 

Michael, had another thought - I think if you have paid atleast as much into the account as the value of the total charges that they have unlawfully deducted then you would be able to demand that the money is returned to you. Assume for the minute that the charges had not been deducted - presumably you would have had the facility of paying money in (reducing your o/d) and then withdrawing it again and remaining liable for the o/d debt. I think the difficulty would come if the deposits were less than the charges claimed.

[mcuth]

Michael, had another thought - I think if you have paid atleast as much into the account as the value of the total charges that they have unlawfully deducted then you would be able to demand that the money is returned to you. Assume for the minute that the charges had not been deducted - presumably you would have had the facility of paying money in (reducing your o/d) and then withdrawing it again and remaining liable for the o/d debt. I think the difficulty would come if the deposits were less than the charges claimed.

 

Good points Bong - I shall have to think further on this (seem to be doing a lot of that lately!). One thing I am including in my next letter to court on my RBoS case is this:

 

" Without prejudice to the Claimant’s previous statements in regards to the Limitations Act 1980, the Claimant would also respectfully request the Court to consider that the Claimant’s initial “Request for refund of charges” letter to the Defendant, dated 24th October 2006 (copy attached), is a demand for repayment as per Joachimson v. Swiss Bank Corporation, 1921 3 KB 110 and therefore not subject to the Limitation Act 1980. "

 

See if that does anything

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[sn00psmum]

Hi there!

I'm new to this & i'm in the process of claiming my bank charges back from the clydesdale bank (scotland). Can someone please tell me whether i can claim back 5 or 6yrs or further? as my claim is now being dealt with down in leeds @ yorkshire bank not @ head office in glasgow as i initially thought. I've recieved a letter from them saying that they are dealing with my complaint & will try get back to me shortly. I'm unsure what to do next, can some1 HELP plz?!!! Thanx

 

Hello! I'm in Scotland aswell and I don't know whether or not i'll be able to offer any helpful advice but I thought i'd say hi anyway.

 

If you live in Scotland you can only claim back 5yrs** as opposed to the 6 in England (unless you have an English address that you can get mail sent to- seems like too much hassle to me as if it reaches court you would have to attend down south) If the bank's head office is south of the border that's not your fault, i've just been addressing everything to my branch who forward it to the appropriate department, until recently that is, my last letter went to Edinburgh as that's where the 'offer of goodwill' came from. I think they do this just to confuse people and put them off, they use all sorts of delaying and scare tactics! Take no notice, stick to your original timescale and don't falter, that's what they're hoping for! I would however wait for more advice regarding the location of the office dealing with your claim as it may dictate which court is used, ie if you issue a claim at your local court they may say it's not within their jurisdiction, you could phone the court for advice, they are receiving lots of claims of this nature at the moment and are aware of the bank's tactics.

 

Sorry, i'm rambling, i'm sure someone will be along shortly to offer you some more coherent advice!!

 

** Have a look at a post I saw before your one, I don't know how to put a link for it on here but the guy's name is biggantry, his post is very recent, after 9pm this eve, it might give you some encouragement!

 

Hope i've helped, sorry if not:rolleyes:

[Bookworm]

BW Thought i would keep you up to date with CAB advice, we do advise to reclaim charges, and have a great success rate.

 

 

Hope this keeps you up to date with the advice that CAB are giving out.

 

Thanks for the update, and yes, BW will do nicely. ;-) Sorry I didn't see your post before, I haven't kept an eye on this thread for a while.

 

My post was written on November 5th, and it was written a couple of days after I had checked the CAB online advice, and at the time, the advice given by the CAB was still as I described. Furthermore, I had come across a few posts by people who had also been given this advice face-to-face, so I am very glad to see someone somewhere took notice of the winds of changes.

(Tried to check online advice right now, the link to "complaint about your bank" takes you to "buying services, your rights"... bummer...)

 

Keep up the good work. You guys reach so many people in need, I am glad to see the CAB on board!

[biggranty]

Hi Biggranty here

 

I claimed 7k with RBOS and got 6 years money. I am in scotland - they told me if you are not claiming interest they are paying out 6 years no hassle. (Things may have changed but I got my offer yesterday for the full amount I claimed for - no half baked offer - just the full amount!) This came through in 7 working days from my first letter requesting payment.

 

I now fancy going for the years previous to this but I think that would have held my claim up so will wait till I have reserched more and the moneys through.

 

Good luck out there with your claims!

[Dusary]

Hi Biggranty here

 

I now fancy going for the years previous to this but I think that would have held my claim up so will wait till I have reserched more and the moneys through.

 

Good luck out there with your claims!

 

Well, I have decided to wait until I have the *FULL HISTORY* of my two accounts with HBoS (formerly BoS).

 

I requested the history PRIOR to January 2001 since I have Jan 2001 - April 2007 statements to hand.

 

Today I received two letters

 

"Attached to this letter is the information you requested for the above account after 17th April 2004, however charges prior to 17th April 2004 will be sent uinder separate cover.

 

We will aim to provide you with this information as quickly as possible. We are currently experiencing a high number of similar requests and it may take a little time to process your request."

 

Meanwhile, the interest on £18,000 (past 6 years) is growing and growing.

Their problem, not mine!

 

BTW: The letters are coming from:

Bank of Scotland

Customer Relations

Trinity Road

HALIFAX

HX1 2RG

 

(no phone number!!)

 

And signed by a Marcin Senator, Data Subject Access Request Team, Customer relations.

[Vital Spark]

Okay. I'm a bitttie lost here.

 

1. Are the courts and banks clamping down on multiple small claims for the same bank acconts?

 

 

2. If the sums are not falling within Small Claims or Summary Cause remits should we be using a solicitor?

 

3. If anyone in Scotland knows of a solicitor already handling such cases and, if this is necessary (do intend going back 20 years at least), will you plese pm me with their name and contact details?

[Dusary]

Okay. I'm a bitttie lost here.

 

1. Are the courts and banks clamping down on multiple small claims for the same bank acconts?

 

 

2. If the sums are not falling within Small Claims or Summary Cause remits should we be using a solicitor?

 

3. If anyone in Scotland knows of a solicitor already handling such cases and, if this is necessary (do intend going back 20 years at least), will you plese pm me with their name and contact details?

 

I dunno - about point 3. I guess it depends on which Bank you are chasing. In my case with HBoS - their Head Office for Customer Relations is in Halifax, so that would seem to take me down the English Law road - but, as you'll see from other threads here - if you get the *We're not playing with you* final letter from your Bank - then you could take the FOS road.

[sn00psmum]

If anyone in Scotland knows of a solicitor already handling such cases and, if this is necessary (do intend going back 20 years at least), will you plese pm me with their name and contact details?

 

Try sending a pm to Seahorse, he's in Aberdeen area but I know he had a solicitor lined up for his claim against RBS

SM:p

[Vital Spark]

Thanks Snoopsmum (btw, does that name mean your son or daughter's a journalist?),

 

I'll pm Seahorse today.

 

Best get ready to take beasties out for long walk now. They can't stay upright much longer with all four legs crossed....................and then there will be vet bills..................... Oh dear, a petowner's life, huh?

 

Thank you too Dusary

[sn00psmum]

Thanks Snoopsmum (btw, does that name mean your son or daughter's a journalist?)

 

LOL no, but my dogs are seagulls & one's called Snoop! Was trying to upload a funny pic of him but it's too much for my brain to handle!!

Edit: did it!

Best get ready to take beasties out for long walk now. They can't stay upright much longer with all four legs crossed....................and then there will be vet bills..................... Oh dear, a petowner's life, huh?

[Dusary]

Maybe we should have a new thread: Dogowners V HBoS

[Dusary]

Back to the *serious* stuff.

 

Today I FINALLY received statements for the period January 1996 - Jan 2001 (I've already got the 2001 - to date statements) for ONE account. (I'm not convinced that this is my total banking history for that account).

 

I'm contemplating adding that to my spreadsheet before sending my preliminary request for repayment.

 

What do you good folks think?

[Vital Spark]

I think I'll be watching your progress closely because I really don't have a clue. I'm asking Lloyds for statements from all of my history with their bank.

 

I did request tis in my SAR but they didn't send it all.

 

I've a letter posted in my Vital Spark vs Lloyds thread asking for opinions on its appropriateness. Anyone wishing to visit said thread and leave their opinion is most welcome to do so.

[Dusary]

OMG

 

Am I to be the guinea-pig?