ICY -v- Abbey

[ICY]

On the 13th December 2006 i called abbey customer services (i use that term VERY loosely) to request last 6 years statements, i was told then that they had been ordered and there would be a £10 charge deducted from my account, i agreed to this charge whilst on the phone to "stephen" in india.

 

On the 24th January i still had not received any statements, nor had the fee been deducted, i again called customer services.

 

The very helpful lady (again i use this term very loosely) then looked at my account and re ordered the statements, and again said there will be a £10 fee, which AGAIN i agreed to, she then told me it takes up to 16 weeks to get the statements.

 

On the 27 January i received a letter from abbey, with this letter was a authiorisation form to return to abbey allowing them to deduct the fee, on the letter was a fax number, so i filled the form in and tryed to fax to the number stated, wasnt a valid line, so again rung customer services was told there was a number missing, i then tryed the new fax number which wasnt a fax machine and never got answered, yet again i ring customer services to be told the fax number i have is deff not the right one, i was then given another number, i duly sent off the fax, i am a bit concerned now that they still havent deducted the fee from my account as this was now 2 weeks ago, or are they waiting till there is less than £10 in my account so they can sting me with another charge.

 

Does anyone else have similar problems, is it abbeys deliberate and underhand attempt at trying to get me to drop things.

[ICY]

i only came across this site yesterday and was completely unaware of the letter at the time when i contacted abbey initially

[ICY]

Received fiche printouts but they have missed a year out and are sending under seperate cover apparently, just starting to collate all the charge, lets see how much i will be looking at, shame they have missed a year, means i cant finalize the figures.

[ICY]

Could someone please give this 14 day letter a look over i want to make sure it is all correct before it goes

 

XX XXXXXXX XXXXX,

XXXXXXXXXX,

XXXXXXXX,

XXXXXXXXXX

XXXX XXX

ABBEY NATIONAL PLC

ABBEY NATIONAL HOUSE

2 TRITON SQUARE

REGENT'S PLACE

LONDON

NW1 3AN

14th March, 2007

Enclosed : Photocopies of all statements.

Dear Sir/Madam Regarding: XX-XX-XX XXXXXXXX

Due to recent media coverage on bank charges I now believe that you, Abbey national PLC have been charging me charges that are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Schedule 2 (e) of the said regulations gives a non-complete list of terms, which may be regarded as unfair, such as a term that requires me as a consumer who fails in his obligation, to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation.

I believe that your charges are disproportionately high and therefore they are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Regulations 1999. In addition I believe that your charges are a Penalty. Penalty charges are irrecoverable at common law. The precedent for this was Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor co Ltd [1915] AC 79 along with Murray v. Leisure play [2005] EWCA Civ 963. It was held that a contractual party can only recover damages for an actual loss or liquidated losses. It is clear that your charges do not reflect any actual and or real loss.

Furthermore if you fail to comply with this letter, I request without further notice a breakdown and proof of all costs involved, in regards to your actual or liquidated losses involved in any breach of contract to which these charges relate with yourselves, and that these charges reflect your true costs in relation to the said charges, and are proportionate to the charges levied on my account as defined in Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Schedule 2 (e).

When this case is listed at court I will be claiming a total of £1645 in charges which I believe are due to myself, I will also be including compounded contractual interest at your advertised unauthorized rate of 28.7% as this is the rate you charge for unauthorized borrowing I believe this rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity of contract, and is based on the Defendants overdraft interest rate that would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account, the value of this contractual interest is £1206.93, therefore the total amount claimed shall be £2851.93.

However in the interest of good relations, and to keep costs to the Abbey PLC to a minimum, I am willing to settle this claim out of court.

Therefore I require you to refund me a total of £1924.08 representing the total, unlawful amount charged during the last 6 years. Included in this amount is the 8% interest under s.69 that would be awarded by the courts. This settlement will halt any court proceedings against yourself.

I hereby give you 14 days to refund the charges to my account. For the avoidance of doubt, if this is not done within 14 days, I will commence my claim in the courts without further warning. This action will inevitably involve you in having substantial additional costs.

I wish all correspondence regarding this matter to be sent to me by post and/or email XXXXXXXX I am not able to discuss this matter by telephone.

Yours sincerely,

XXXXXXXXXXX

[ICY]

So its not a good bargaining tool then ?

[ICY]

How about this then

ABBEY NATIONAL PLC

ABBEY NATIONAL HOUSE

2 TRITON SQUARE

REGENT'S PLACE

LONDON

NW1 3AN

14th March, 2007

 

Enclosed : Photocopies of all statements.

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam Regarding: XX-XX-XX XXXXXXXX

 

Due to recent media coverage on bank charges I now believe that you, Abbey national PLC have been charging me charges that are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Schedule 2 (e) of the said regulations gives a non-complete list of terms, which may be regarded as unfair, such as a term that requires me as a consumer who fails in his obligation, to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation.

 

I believe that your charges are disproportionately high and therefore they are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Regulations 1999. In addition I believe that your charges are a Penalty. Penalty charges are irrecoverable at common law. The precedent for this was Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor co Ltd [1915] AC 79 along with Murray v. Leisure play [2005] EWCA Civ 963. It was held that a contractual party can only recover damages for an actual loss or liquidated losses. It is clear that your charges do not reflect any actual and or real loss.

 

Furthermore if you fail to comply with this letter, I request without further notice a breakdown and proof of all costs involved, in regards to your actual or liquidated losses involved in any breach of contract to which these charges relate with yourselves, and that these charges reflect your true costs in relation to the said charges, and are proportionate to the charges levied on my account as defined in Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Schedule 2 (e).

 

In the interest of good relations, and to keep costs to the Abbey PLC to a minimum, I am willing to settle this matter out of court to reduce the cost of incurring daily rising interest charges.

Therefore I require you to refund me a total of £1924.08 representing the total, unlawful amount charged during the last 6 years. Included in this amount is the 8% interest under s.69 that will be awarded by the courts. This settlement will halt any further court proceedings against Abbey.

I hereby give you 14 days to refund the charges to my account. For the avoidance of doubt, if this is not done within 14 days, I will commence my claim in the courts without further notice. Futher action will inevitably involve you in having substantial additional costs.

 

I wish all correspondence regarding this matter to be sent to me by post and/or email XXXXXXXX I am not able to discuss this matter by telephone.

I would appreciate that you didnt simply send out a standard letter which you are sending to almost all claimants stating you will look into the matter in the next 4 weeks, the 14 day notice period is not negoitable, and attempts to stall proceedings will be taken into account if the need to attend court becomes reality, all these tactics do is increase the cost to Abbey PLC, which should really impress shareholders.

 

 

 

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

 

XXXXXXXXXXX

[ICY]

OK think this is the final edit, i have taken on board the comments re stat interest and have reworded accordingly

 

ABBEY NATIONAL PLC

ABBEY NATIONAL HOUSE

2 TRITON SQUARE

REGENT'S PLACE

LONDON

NW1 3AN

14th March, 2007

RECORDED DELIVERY

 

Enclosed : Photocopies of all statements. Complete list of all charges made.

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam Regarding: XX-XX-XX XXXXXXXX

Due to recent media coverage on bank charges I now believe that you, Abbey national PLC have been charging me charges that are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Schedule 2 (e) of the said regulations gives a non-complete list of terms, which may be regarded as unfair, such as a term that requires me as a consumer who fails in his obligation, to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation.

I believe that your charges are disproportionately high and therefore they are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Regulations 1999. In addition I believe that your charges are a Penalty. Penalty charges are irrecoverable at common law. The precedent for this was Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor co Ltd [1915] AC 79 along with Murray v. Leisure play [2005] EWCA Civ 963. It was held that a contractual party can only recover damages for an actual loss or liquidated losses. It is clear that your charges do not reflect any actual and or real loss.

Furthermore I request without further notice a breakdown and proof of all costs involved, in regards to your actual or liquidated losses involved in any breach of contract to which these charges relate with yourselves, and that these charges reflect your true costs in relation to the said charges, and are proportionate to the charges levied on my account as defined in Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Schedule 2 (e).

 

When this case is listed at court I will be claiming a total of £1677 in charges which I believe are due to myself, I will also be including claiming interest at 8%, under s.69 of the county courts act.

However in the interest of good relations, and to keep costs to Abbey PLC down, I am willing to settle this claim out of court.

Therefore in light of an out of court settlement I require you to refund me a total of £1677.00 representing the total, unlawful amount charged during the last 6 years. This settlement will halt any further court proceedings against yourself.

I hereby give you 14 days from date of this letter, to refund the charges to my account.

Please be assured further action will be taken if a satisfactory response is not received within 14 days.

 

I wish all correspondence regarding this matter to be sent to me by post and/or email XXXXXXXX@XXXXXXI am not able to discuss this matter by telephone. Email is my preferred method of contact as it does cut out delays in the postal system.

I would appreciate that you take this matter seriously, and that you don’t simply send out a standard letter which you are sending to almost all claimants stating you will look into the matter in the next 4 weeks, the 14 day notice period is not negotiable, and attempts to stall proceedings will be taken into account if the need to attend court becomes reality, all these tactics do is increase the cost to Abbey PLC, which i am sure would really impress your shareholders.

 

 

Yours sincerely,

[ICY]

i dont understand, i thought i had to give them 14 days, then if they fail to respond or respond with usual crap i then send lba giving a final 14 days before court action.

 

thanks fro clarifying the date of receipt/date of posting

[ICY]

both methods give the bank 28 days to respond, so both show i have been fair to the bank

[ICY]

I take it you are reffering to this sentance? if so would you advise to remove this sentance?

For the avoidance of doubt, if this is not done within 14 days, I will commence my claim in the courts without further warning. This action will inevitably involve you in having substantial additional costs.

[ICY]

oops cross posting lol, will take that out now, thanks for the advice

[ICY]

letter edited, should the following comment also be removed?

 

 

Please be assured further action will be taken if a satisfactory response is not received within 14 days.

[ICY]

ok i will leave that in, right will print off when get into the office tomorrow and get it sent off to them, do i need to include photocopies of the statements or just a schedule of charges incurred

[ICY]

oh forgot to say when they sent me the microfische in the middle were two pages that didnt seem to make any sense, when i looked properly they had sent me 2 pages of sombody elses microfische how incompetant are these people that were are trusting with our money

[ICY]

and they sent me all the microfische and statements ages ago and still havent taken the £10 payment out of my account as i authorised them to do.

ah well thats a tenner better off in mh pocket, bet they are waiting till theres nothing in the account to cover it, shame for them that wont happen.

[ICY]

goning off today recorded delivery

[ICY]

check 0f royal mail online confirms letter delivered yesterday, i now await usual response

[ICY]

Not impressed, just received the following letter this morning

 

Dear Mr Cross

 

RE: XXXXXX XXXXXXXX

 

Thank you for contacting us and i am sorry that you have been so unhappy that you have felt you must complain.

FFS IT WASNT A COMPLAINT!!!!

 

One of my team will be responsible for investigating your complaint COMPLAINT????? and I have enclosed our complaints leaflet,WHY which explains our procedure for doing this. High quality customer service is of great importance to us at Abbey and we will do everything we can to resolve your complaint COMPLAINT????? in a timely and satisfactory manner. WELL TRY READING THE BLOODY LETTER I SENT YOU THEN

 

I know it is important to you that we resolve your complaint quickly COMPLAINT????? but we want to complete a thorough investigation and sometimes this can take time. If we have not contacted you before then, we will write to you in four weeks I THINK NOT to let you know what is happening.

 

If you have employed someone to handle your complaint COMPLAINT????? on your behalf, please note: employing a third party complaint-handling firm A WHAT, YOU MEAN A CHARGE RECOVERY TEAM or a solicitor, or financial advisor does not affect how we review your complaint. Please be aware that

Abbey does not charge you to investigate your complaint I AM SURPRISED

Abbey will not be liable for any costs incurred if you do decide to employ a third party to handle your complaint during this reveiw

Abbey in general, will only make payment directly to the account holder if your complaint is upheld and redress is due PARTIAL ADMITION THEY WILL PROB BE PAYING OUT????

 

Although i do not know what the outcome will be,THATS ODD BECAUSE I DO LOL i do hope that we will be able to find a solution that you are happy with. YES GIVING ME BACK MY MONEY WILL MAKE ME HAPPY

 

Yours sincerely

 

Computer generated signature

 

Andrew Nanson

Business Manager

enc. Complaints leaflet

[ICY]

Events so far

 

2003 - present Abbey took £1677 in unlawful charges from myself

22nd March 2007 Initial letter sent to Abbey via recorded delivery

23rd March 2007 Royal Mail confirm delivery of letter

28th March 2007 receive standard letter from Andrew Nanson dated 27th

5th April 2007 LBA is to be sent

 

To be continued

[ICY]

just realised i will be sending LBA off 5th April unless they settle before then which i hold out no hope for, this is not working days for the 14 day period is it, as not only are there weekends but also 2 bank holidays which are in this period threfore there will only be 8 working days

 

And while im at it, why should it be a BANK holiday, they are lazy enough without having holidays in their name lol

[ICY]

ICY....The letter you got from ABBEY with our own comments added.... :D Pure Class:D :D gave me a real chuckle!!

I aim to please LOL

[ICY]

The in laws to be are wanting me to sort their claims out now, m-i-l has 11 accounts with a massive amount of charges on them, f-i-l has 1 account with quite a large number of charges.

[ICY]

Each day and every day ICY. They get it on the 6th so your claim goes in on the 21st.

 

So to get this right do i start counting from the day royal mail acknowledge delivery, is that correct ?

[ICY]

damn it, was just looking at my online account, with a view to reducing my overdraft, it says i can only amend in multiples of £50, i only had £20 which i can afford to put towards it at the mo, would they reduce it by lesser amounts over the phone?

 

The OD is for £950 so want to get it down and sorted as i am constantly living in the overdraft, now i have regular money coming in and havnt been over my OD for ages so hoping they wont pull the OD facility, but who knows, at least if i can reduce it a wee bit in the meantime, should they then ask further down the line for it all back at least the blow will be softer

[ICY]

well been away for a few days and missed my own deadline, still nothing from scabby, LBA goes off to them today recorded, they will receive it tomorow so, 25th April is the date i can start MCOL yes?