What Is This Charge

[dagrat]

I was thinking about just putting the complete charge for every month straight into the spreadsheet and let the benk try and pick throughit.

 

What do you think is it possible i could ruin my entire claim?

 

On this point what happens if by accident we claim for a charge or charges that are not reclaimable, would that mean the the court could throw out the entire claim?

[isidore]

What you have to remember, is the banks are very likely to increase their charges over time. It would make sense to presume that at some point in the past the charge for royalties basic was £5, where your charges start increasing consistently to £25 is probably where the royalties basic charge was increased to it's current amount of £10 and so on.

 

In response to your earlier questions, I wouldn't add them all in - might not be the most sensible. Can't say for sure it would jeapardise your claim but if it were me, I wouldn't want to take the risk.

 

The best you can do is make a judgment call. Work through your EDIT: statements month by month, look for a trend, decide where you think the charges have increased over time from £5 to £10 (basic) and £12 to £15 (gold) and stick to your rules. All they can do is say you're wrong and you simply amend your calculations. The point is if you do it that way you are showing that you have made an effort to differentiate between lawful and unlawful charges.

[isidore]

I would probably even go as far as to inform them on your preliminary letter that you have estimated that their charges were x at this point rising to x on this date etc etc.

 

EDIT: Nah, actually don't bother. Don't inform them what you are doing, gives them the opportunity to argue the point. Just deduct them from the charges as you see fit. The spreadsheet in my other post should allow you to do that easily. Have the proper one in full working order if you want me to email it to you (PM me your email address if you want it)? Don't know how to host it somewhere to allow people to download it :?

 

Have also been trying to get someone to "sticky" that RBS charge post so that peeps like you have something to work from.....see loads of these type of posts coming in every day. Might not have taken you 2 weeks if it was!!

[dagrat]

Many thanks T4FF ill do just what you say. You have just cleared up a problem ive had for two weeks , been tearing my hair .

 

 

Thanks again youve been brilliant help, Ill let you know how i get on

[isidore]

I edited my previous post, but in case you don't notice it.......

 

Nah, actually don't bother. Don't inform them what you are doing, gives them the opportunity to argue the point. Just deduct them from the charges as you see fit. The spreadsheet in my other post should allow you to do that easily. Have the proper one in full working order if you want me to email it to you (PM me your email address if you want it)? Don't know how to host it somewhere to allow people to download it

 

Have also been trying to get someone to "sticky" that RBS charge post so that peeps like you have something to work from.....see loads of these type of posts coming in every day. Might not have taken you 2 weeks if it was!!

[isidore]

Just realised I got my numbers wrong. Royalties account charges are as follows:

 

Basic £6 (was £5)

Gold £12 (was £10)

Premier £15 (hasn't changed as far as I'm aware)

 

When these charges changed I don't know.

 

__________________

If I've been help to you, click on my scales and add to my rep!

__________________

 

Stuck with RBS charges?

Click here!!

 

Settled

RBS Current Account1 £2794

RBS Current Account2 £503

HBOS Credit Card £498

 

Still to Settle

Barclaycard Est£180

[HydraUK]

Because of the confusion about how much the Royalties Gold fees were and when they went up I didn't claim them in my initial action.

 

What I intend to do next is go back and claim them separately with contractual interest . To get around not knowing when the fees went up (and it's not always that easy to see off the statements) I intend to take an average of £10 off each month where 'chg to acc no. xxxx' appears (on the basis that it was £8 then £10 now £12) and issue another claim...

 

I figured that it might be a bit risky especially with contractual rate applied, so I wanted to keep it separate from our main claim.

[isidore]

Are you on about claiming back your royalties payment or the difference of the "CHG to 12345678" charge less your royalties payment?

 

__________________

 

If I've been help to you, click on my scales and add to my rep!

__________________

 

Stuck with RBS charges?

Click here!!

 

Settled

RBS Current Account1 £2794

RBS Current Account2 £503

HBOS Credit Card £498

 

Still to Settle

Barclaycard Est£180

[dagrat]

Yes i was going to claim the full charge less the agreed service fee ,seems fair.

 

Got onto your spreadsheet earlier, and i think i will fill mine in edentical to yours. But the only thing i couldnt understand was ("here he goes again")

how you claimed your interest back?

 

Two thiongs:

1/ I thought i couldnt claim back the interest

 

2/ if i can only claim back the interest on the overdraght caused by the unlawful charges, then i dont think i can claim it because even though i was more or less permenantly o/d, i think i must have renegotiated the o/d pretty often.

 

 

Also on your spreadsheet at the interest section you have a column "interest free overdraght" Because i have a royalties gold account as well does this mean my o/d should be free up to my limit??

 

If thats true im snookered again as i have no details as to what my limit was at each year. Dont think the bank will be to helpfull

 

What do you think T4FF?

[isidore]

Well you are in no different a situation than I was and I claimed it?

 

Think the most important thing is to get into your head the different type of interests and which is being referred to at which point.

 

Firstly, there is your overdraft interest. This is the interest that is charged to your account on a monthly basis when you are overdrawn. This interest is calculated on any amount that exceeds your interest free overdraft (not your agreed overdraft). Because your unlawful charges contribute to your overdraft, the interest that is charged against these charges can be claimed back from the stage one.

 

Secondly, there is your 8% interest. This I know little about because I didn't get to this stage but I think it is a statuatory interest rate that can be added to your claim on getting to the court stage. This one you cannot claim until you file your claim with the court and is calculated as a percentage of each charge from the day the charge was taken.

 

Thirdly, there's contractual interest. I know nothing about this and if you want to know, I suggest you browse the forums.

 

At this point, the interest you should be "interested" in is the overdraft interest as this is the interest you can add to your very first spreadsheet. Yes you can claim it. If you find one of the advanced spreadsheets (or mine) it's very simple to do. Basically, the date of the interest charge goes in, the amount charged, the interest free overdraft and the balance of your account at the time of the interest charge and the spreadsheet does the rest. It calculates the difference between your overdraft at the time and your interest free amount to find out how much was charged against. It then finds out what percentage of your overdraft is made up of charges and therefore adds this to the claim.

 

For example, if you were 600 overdrawn and had an interest free amount of 100, were charged 50 in charges and were deducted 15 in od interest, the spreadsheet would calculate like so:

 

Overdraft 600 - Interest Free 100 = Chargeable overdraft 500

Charge amount 50 / Chargeable overdaft 500 = % of overdraft 10%

% of charge claimable is 10% of Interest charged 15 = £1.5

 

Royalties interest free amounts are easy to find out, just ring RBS anonymously and ask them. The current amounts are (or at least were when I did mine) Basic 100, Gold 250, Premier 500. Anything over these amounts (whether it is an agreed amount or not) is charged interest.

 

This is where the difficulty comes in working out historic changes. For the sake of keeping things simple, I didn't bother finding out, just used the current levels. Hope this all makes sense.

[dagrat]

Thanks T4FF, yes i think its just about making sense.

I think i will stick to the o/d interest.

 

But how do i differentiate (big word!) between the interest charged each month and the interest caused by my charges? Or am i being thick and the spreadsheet does this automatically?

[isidore]

The spreadsheet does this for you providing you put all your dates in correctly. It basically finds the charges previous to the date of the interest charge.

[LondonPam]

I have to admit that I mistakenly put a charge of £28 on my sheet when claiming back charges. This was in fact a charge for an international money transfer that I did. I didn't notice until late but they paid up regardless. I had various different charges earlier on in 2000 etc and decided that if it wasn't a service charge then I would put it on and that's exactly what I did. They didn't query any of them.

Good luck.

[dagrat]

Any help with new account?

 

Before i start claiming ill have to set up a parachute account. But as i already have a bad credit record can anyone suggest a bank or account of some kind, for cheqs and d/d use. I am quite sure the bank will close my account after i claim as i have a very large o/d and keep increasing it.

 

Dont want to fall at first fence

[dagrat]

Sorry forgot to say, my existing account is rbos.

 

Also where do i send the prelim letter? when i am ready do i send it to my branch office?

[HydraUK]

Check this link http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/13832-do-you-need-parachute.html?highlight=parachute+account

 

Co-op looks good...get a debit card of sorts.

 

And branch is as good a place as any to start, although some have gone straight to Tommy MacLean in customer relations...

[isidore]

Check this link http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/13832-do-you-need-parachute.html?highlight=parachute+account

 

Lol!!! Spent the last 15 minutes scouring the forums for that link, get back here and you've beaten me to it. Need to practice my searching skills....

[HydraUK]

;0p Hope he gives me a click for it

[dagrat]

Thanks for that Think il go with coop, hopefully!

 

Right got my statements all ready,got my spreadsheet all ready even got the envelope. But could you help me with the adddress. Ive written the prelim letter as per your template(brilliant) and ive found the addresss for rbos but my question is this, do i send the prelim letter by recorded delivery to my local branch or the registered address for rbos?

 

On your address page there seems to be at least six addresses for rbos.

 

Appreciate any help with this.

[HydraUK]

In my case I have used the branch address for all communications, I know others have too.

 

Some people went straight to Tommy MacLean at Customer Relations (which is where your file will eventually end up in all probability.)

 

I don't really think it makes any difference which route you decide to go down as they won't stick to your timetables.....

 

Branch address used on N1 also as this helps the case for it to stay in local court.

[dagrat]

Thanks for that. The letter is finally off.

 

On another point, ive also got an old halifax card account and a bank of scotland card account. Im going to also claim charges back from both of these, but as they are both merged now, when i send the S.A.R.,could i just send one including both accounts? And if so which address is it?

 

many thanks again

[HydraUK]

That's a very good question that I'm sure somebody will be able to answer for you (sorry mucker, I ain't got a clue.)

 

I guess it would depend on whether the banks merged their records...I would imagine that in all probability there exists a separate section or organisation that deals with the old business (in the same way that British Rail still exists - British Rail Residuals - to deal with properties not sold off under privatisation) but this really is a guess...

 

Open a thread in the Halifax forum and ask in there m'be.

 

Happy New Year and all that!

 

Phil

[dagrat]

Happy new year to you to.

 

Thanks anyway

[dagrat]

Right as my claim is finally underway should i start a new thread or carry on from this one?

[HydraUK]

Are the claims related? Seeing as it's a new claim, perhaps a 'dagrat vs evilbank round 2' is more appropriate....