Letter Of Claim for death of cat now Court Claim received.

[BankFodder]

Okay well send the letter that I have suggested and then don't give any further responses at all.

 

I get the impression that you have difficulty resisting the temptation to answer back all the time.

 

This time, just leave it

[BankFodder]

Ok. My mistake

[BankFodder]

Yes – exactly as my site team colleague @Nicky Boy has requested.

Read a single document – single file multipage PDF. Please count and in the correct order and the correct way round and in a way that you would like to receive a document if you are giving help to somebody else free of charge.

Thanks

[BankFodder]

Well you haven't left anybody very much time have you?

The first thing you need to do is acknowledge the claim and that will get you an extra 14 days. Do that straightaway and let us know that it has been done please.

Secondly, although we've had your story generally on this thread, please can you respond to the allegations contain the particulars of claim – point by point.

Not too much narrative please just simply bullet pointed short statements – paragraph by paragraph

[BankFodder]

If you feel that the claim is unfounded then yes of course then you must reject it all.

Do you have any doubts about that? Do you think that anything they are saying is correct

[BankFodder]

1 hour ago, danyboy72 said:

no most of what they are saying is untrue

we asked you on Friday to comment on each allegation contained in the claim – point by point.

Not only will you need to do this for us but you will need to do it for your defence and for the court.

If you'd rather not do it then I'm not sure that we can help you

[BankFodder]

Firstly, do we know that the injured cat is the property of the claimant? There seem to be some question about this earlier on in this thread.
Secondly, we asked you to respond to the paragraphs in the claim point by point – but you haven't done this.

You have been selective and referring only to certain paragraphs.
If you want to deal with this properly then you will have to give a point by point – paragraph by paragraph, commentary but try to shorten the narrative please.

I suggest that you begin each comment with "true", or "not true," or "not admitted".

It's a complicated thing. We are prepared to do a lot of work to help you but you will have to be more responsive. You were asked to do this 10 days ago and that was already after having left it very late in the day. I know you went on holiday – but try explaining that to the court if they give a judgement against you simply because you went on holiday.

If you want to deal with this then you need to get a move on. If we were charging you £300 per hour you would re-prioritise this PDQ.

Also, you have redacted their claim so much that in some parts it's confusing. You only need to redact their names – nothing else. There seems to be some other pet with a different name or something.
We need have a clear view.

3.2.1 and 3.9.8 are causing particular difficulty. Also 3.26 and 3.27. Are these the name of the vet? Why are you concealing that?

[BankFodder]

Redacted is when you hide certain details. You have redacted many things that were necessary.

In terms of answering point by point, you begin by the first paragraph of their claim –

Paragraph 1 – true/not true/not admitted – very short explanation of why it is untrue or not admitted
paragraph 2 –. Not true/not admitted – very short explanation of why it is untrue or not admitted
ditto
ditto

 

I don't know where there is a pet with a different name either – but in one of the paragraphs, your redaction has made things so unclear that we don't understand.

You only need to redact your own name and your own details. Anybody else – just leave it.

 

[BankFodder]

You say the claimant has provided a receipt for the cat. Is that receipt in the claimant's name?

[BankFodder]

Quote

• HM Courts &
Courts and Tribunals Service Centre
Email: contactocmc@justice.gov.uk
Telephone: 0300 123 7050
(Monday to Friday, 8:30am to Spm)
Tribunals Service Call charges: www gov uk/call-charaes


3.1. PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

 

3.5. 4. My partner managed to get the dog to release Kiara who tried to
escape up a tree but was unable to and was subsequently attacked by the
other dog. Again, my partner and mother intervened and released the cat
who ran into the trees.

3.6. 5. My partner and mother tried to find Kiara and prevent the dogs who
were still out of control from catching her again. The dogs ran onto the lane
beside the property, my partner and mother followed where they discovered
a man running away from the scene, who we now know to be the owner of
the dogs, XXXXXXXX  the Defendant.

3.7. 6. The police were called and spoke to both my mother and the
Defendant. When the police officer informed the Defendant that although he
would not be criminally liable, he would be responsible for the expenses
incurred because of his dogs' actions he agreed. He gave my mother and
partner his telephone number and home address at this time.

3.8. 7. Kiara was found by my mother and partner 45 minutes later in a state
of shock and she had incurred substantial injuries.

3.9. 8. Kiara was taken immediately to our vet, The - Vets
) who put her on a drip. After initial
treatment we were informed later that day that the injuries were such that
she would need to be transferred to a veterinary hospital,
where she could receive 24-hour care. This was
done on the evening of 28th January 2023.

3.1 0. 9. My mother telephoned the Defendant to inform him of the likely
veterinary fees and subsequently kept him informed at all stages by text
(evidence of which can be provided).

3.11. 10. On Monday 30th January 2023, Kiara was transferred back to The
Shrubbery. She was suffering from liver damage/failure due to blunt trauma
and shaking. Unfortunately, she deteriorated so much over the weekend that
the vet's advised the kindest option was to have her put to sleep. This was
carried out on the afternoon of 30th January 2023. I arranged to have Kiara
buried on our land by a local company.

3.12. 11. The veterinary fees came to a total of £2,021.88 but I have pet
insurance wni'ch covered the majority of the veterinary fees, so 1 am only
claiming for my out-of-pocket expenses and the cost of purchasing Kiara,
since she was only 4 years old.

3.1 3. 12. My mother contacted the Defendant via text message throughout
Kiara's treatment to keep him informed as he requested. The Defendant did
not respond but my mother did receive two messages from the Defendant's
girlfriend, and I therefore believe he has received the messages we sent.
Copies of all text message correspondence can be provided. We initially
requested payment from the Defendant by text but when this was not made a
formal letter before action was sent on March 13th 2023. Despite formal
correspondence with the Defendant trying to resolve the dispute, and
providing them with all the necessary documents they requested, the
Defendant has refused to pay the amount requested.

3.14. 13. The following documents can be provided to support this claim:
3.15. Text messages sent from~ to the Defendant, -

3.16. Text messages between the Defendants girlfriend.
3.1 7. All letters sent between the Claimant and the Defendant.
3.18. Photographs taken of the dogs and the Defendant on the 28th January
2023.
3.19. Photographs of Kiara at the vets, showing her bruising.
3.20. The Shrubbery Claim Completion Notification.
3.21. Vets Now Claim Completion Notification.
3.22. Burial Cost Claim Completion Notification.
3.23. Pedigree Document.
3.24. Original Purchase Receipt for Kiara.
3.25. Bank statement showing The Shrubbery Ad m in fee for insurance.
3.26. Th ) Vets Bill.
3.27.
3.28. Kiara's Veterinary History.
3.29. Breakdown of total compensation sought.

Tlmellne of what happened:
28th January 2023
29th January 2023
30th January 2023
4th-28th Feb 2023
13th March 2023 -
18th March 2023
1Oth April 2023
16th April 2023
Evidence:
Letters, emails and other

The Defendant allowed his dogs to run off leads
onto Claimants private land and they attacked Kiara.
Defendant's information taken at scene. Kiara taken
to vet.
Claimant party informs defendant of ongoing vet
treatment and expenses via text. Defendant party
states in reply via text "We would like to offer you a
one off payment of £300 towards the cost" (No
payment made).
Kiara was put to sleep and the Defendant was
notified via text and did not respond.
Text messages sent by Claimant party in an attempt
to resolve the dispute before a letter before action
was sent. Text messages were sent on 4th, 8th, 18th
and 24th February 2023. All text messages were
ignored by the Defendant.
Letter-before action was delivered -from claimant to
Defendant. Requesting compensation for out-of pocket
expenses and the cost of Kiara.
Defendant replies requesting further information
and records regarding details of Kiara's pet
insurance, vet treatment and bills, etc.
Letter from Claimant to Defendant. Request for
compensation to cover revised out-of-pocket
expenses relating to Kiara's injuries and the incident.
The letter included an appendix containing all the
relevant documents he requested.
Reply from Defendant showing that he would not be
willing to make any offer of compensation and
suggesting that the Claimant issues a claim so "a
judge can sort it out in court".
2 Letters from the Claimant- including an appendix

correspondence
Photo evidence
Other
Other

4. Claim amount details
Claim amount Items:
Excess and Administration
fees for Vets Now
Excess and Administration
fees for Shrubbery Vets
Petrol costs
Burial Costs
Initial cost of Kiara
5. Total amount
Claim amount
Claim fee:
Total:
Claim number:~
with evidence of out-of-pocket expenses. 2 letters
from the Defendant.
Photos take by Claimant party on the day of the
incident (28th January 2023) of the Defendant and
his dogs. Photos of Kiara at the vets showing
bruising.
Text messages between Claimant party and
Defendant party.
Appendix included in Claimants 2nd letter including:
Appendix 1 -The Shrubbery Claim Completion
Notification. Appendix 2- Vets Now Claim
Completion Notification. Appendix 3 - Burial Cost
Claim Completion Notification. Appendix 4-
Pedigree Document. Appendix 5- Original Purchase
Receipt. Appendix 6- Bank statement showing The
Shrubbery Admin fee for insurance. Appendix 7-
The Shrubbery Vets Bill. Appendix 8 -Vets Now Bill.
Appendix 9- Kiara's Veterinary History. Appendix
1 0- Breakdown of total compensation sought.
£317.20
£146.24
£65.70
£42
£500
£1,071.14
£80
£1 ,151.14

I have cleared the redactions on your claim form. I have separated the paragraphs

This will give you a start.
Use the copy function to paste these into your own post
Put your comment after each paragraph in red

[BankFodder]

First of all, I have cleared your redactions. This means we can move on. You are correct I have left the claimant's names in place. I can remove them if you want.

In terms of not understanding what is needed, I'm afraid that you are going to have to get to grips with this if you want to defend this case.

Although you can still defend it if you don't deal with it efficiently – it will make life much harder for you and I can tell you that by looking at their claim, they seem to be pretty organised and that will carry some weight with the judge.

Above I have reproduced their claim. I have separated paragraphs out. I have asked you to copy the claim as I have posted above into a new post and then go through it putting your very brief comments under each paragraph.
I'm afraid that if you don't do that then I'm not sure how to help you.


We really are bending over backwards here. If you aren't sure about it then maybe you need to ask somebody else who can look at it as well and you will understand what needs to be done.

We do this on a forum and it's free of charge – but I'm afraid that means that you have got to engage with the forum process. We don't have any other way of helping you.
What is the date for returning the defence? It must be coming up pretty soon as you have left long gaps before dealing with things.

As far as I can make out the claim was issued on 17 August. We are now the 15th. 17th of September is on Sunday. I reckon that if you haven't far to defence by Tuesday then you could find that they will enter a judgement against you by the Wednesday – but maybe even by the Tuesday – and then if you want to try and change things you will have to apply to have the judgement set aside – cancelled – and then put in a defence.

Applying to have the judgement set aside will cost you about 250 quid or more and you will still be left with the problem of filing a defence.

I think that realistically you've only got a couple more days to deal with this.

The claimant seem extremely organised and I'm sure that they will move very quickly to apply for judgement the moment that the 30 days after your receipt of the claim expires.

 

[BankFodder]

Don't forget that even if you get the defence in on time, you will then eventually end up either having to go through the mediation process or go to trial. Particularly if it goes to trial you will have to get yourself organised and be prepared to give your story to the judge in a very even and structured way and to answer each allegation that the other side will make against you in court.

 

Incidentally, you can respond to the claim simply by saying that you deny everything – if you want.

You can even use the explanations that you have put above – but it really won't be very effective. It won't give you the best chance – and you will still have to argue it all in court.

[BankFodder]

2 hours ago, danyboy72 said:

 

The claimant's claim is denied.
It is not clear what basis the claim is being brought. The claimant has referred to "trespass". However there was no trespass and my dogs did not enter the property from which a cat escaped.
Anyway, the property referred to by the claimant does not belong to the claimant. It apparently belongs to her mother and therefore the claimant would not be in a position to complain of a trespass even if it were true.

3.2. 1. The Claimant, xxx was the owner of Kiara, a cat. Daniel le is
the daughter of zzz who is the owner of yyyy.

i dont know if this is true - this is what they have said, so i do i assume this is true?

Paragraph 3.2.1 – it is not clear that the claimant is the owner of the cat. The cat was at a property which does not belong to the claimant. The defendant requires that the claimant provides evidence as to their ownership of the cat and is entitled to to make a claim

3.3. 2. On Saturday, 28th January 2023, two dogs, (grey long haired lurcherspictures
can be provided) trespassed through a fence boundary into the
private property (Broadfield) off lead without the consent of the property
owner. The owner of the dogs was not in sight and the dogs were out of
control.

not true: my dogs did not tresspass through a fence boundary into private property. my dogs were not out of control.

Paragraph 3.3.2 – this is not true and the claimant has no evidence that this is true. The defendants Was not on private property. It seems that the cat had escaped from the defendant's property by means of a dilapidated fence and was now in an open field.
I believe that the dilapidated fence belonged to the property from which the cat escaped.
My dogs were not out of control but they reacted in the way one might normally expect from dogs when a cat suddenly appears in front of them.
The cat appeared to be a valuable cat. Probably normally kept indoors and very nervous and unsure having escaped the property.

3.4. 3. The dogs proceeded to chase Kiara, our cat we have on site. Kiara was a
family pet purchased by me as a kitten. Kiara is a pedigree Bengal cat and was
only 4 years old. One of the dogs managed to seize Kiara and began to shake
her. My partner, dddddddd  and my mother, zzzzz were
present at the time and tried to intervene.

not true: i did not see this (or should this be not admitted)
paragraph 3.4.3 it is admitted that there was a fight between one of my dogs and the cat although I did not see it. I only heard it and I am unable to comment on the claimant's allegation.
However I repeat that the confrontation between the two animals did not occur on the claimant's property or the property belonging to her mother.

3.5. 4. My partner managed to get the dog to release Kiara who tried to
escape up a tree but was unable to and was subsequently attacked by the
other dog. Again, my partner and mother intervened and released the cat
who ran into the trees.

not true: i did not see this (or should this be not admitted)
paragraph 3.5.4 – once again, I did not have the confrontation. I only heard it. However I repeat that the confrontation did not occur on private land as alleged. It occurred on an open field after the cat had escaped the private property to a dilapidated fence.
It is believed that the dilapidated fence belonged to the property from which the cat escaped

3.6. 5. My partner and mother tried to find Kiara and prevent the dogs who
were still out of control from catching her again. The dogs ran onto the lane
beside the property, my partner and mother followed where they discovered
a man running away from the scene, who we now know to be the owner of
the dogs, XXXXXXXX  the Defendant.

not true: the dogs were not out of control. i did not run away from the scene.
Paragraph 3.6.5 I did not run away from the scene.

3.7. 6. The police were called and spoke to both my mother and the
Defendant. When the police officer informed the Defendant that although he
would not be criminally liable, he would be responsible for the expenses
incurred because of his dogs' actions he agreed. He gave my mother and
partner his telephone number and home address at this time.

not true: i did not agree that i would be responsible for all of the expenses incurred.
Paragraph 3.7.6 it is true that the police were called. I did not agree that I would be responsible for all the expenses incurred. However I was concerned about injuries to the animal and I did mention that I would be prepared to make a contribution to costs.
 

3.8. 7. Kiara was found by my mother and partner 45 minutes later in a state
of shock and she had incurred substantial injuries.
 

not admitted as i did not witness this.
Paragraph 3.8.7 I am unable to comment on this as I did not see it but I accept that this is probably true

3.9. 8. Kiara was taken immediately to our vet, The - Vets
) who put her on a drip. After initial
treatment we were informed later that day that the injuries were such that
she would need to be transferred to a veterinary hospital,
where she could receive 24-hour care. This was
done on the evening of 28th January 2023.

true.
Paragraph 3.9.8 I accept that this is probably true

3.1 0. 9. My mother telephoned the Defendant to inform him of the likely
veterinary fees and subsequently kept him informed at all stages by text
(evidence of which can be provided).

true that i was informed. but not admitted that i would pay or be responsible for the veterinary fees.
Paragraph 3.10.9 it is true that I received a telephone call from the defendant's mother. It is not true that I agreed that I would be responsible for the veterinary fees.

3.11. 10. On Monday 30th January 2023, Kiara was transferred back to The
Shrubbery. She was suffering from liver damage/failure due to blunt trauma
and shaking. Unfortunately, she deteriorated so much over the weekend that
the vet's advised the kindest option was to have her put to sleep. This was
carried out on the afternoon of 30th January 2023. I arranged to have Kiara
buried on our land by a local company.

not true: ive not received any evidence or a receipt from the local company for the burial.
Paragraph 3.11.10 I have not been provided with any evidence of this

3.12. 11. The veterinary fees came to a total of £2,021.88 but I have pet
insurance wni'ch covered the majority of the veterinary fees, so 1 am only
claiming for my out-of-pocket expenses and the cost of purchasing Kiara,
since she was only 4 years old.

not true: the claimant cannot claim for the full cost of the cat. for an example if i buy a new car and it gets written off after 4 years the insurance company will not pay the full price i paid for the car.
Paragraph 3.12.11 in the event that the court decides I am liable, I would dispute the amount of damages claimed. For instance, although it may seem rather heartless, the cat is a "good" in the same way as a car or a washing machine.
Average life expectancy is 14 years and therefore any award for the value of the cat should be calculated on the basis that this is a four year old animal

also, if the court does decide that I am liable, then I would respectfully request the court to take into account the dilapidated condition of the barrier fence separating the property from which the defendants Had escaped. It is likely that if the fence had been properly maintained then the cat would have remained confined.
Also, a Bengal cat is normally a valuable animal and are mostly kept indoors. Clearly this cat had escaped and I believe that the claimant should explain why the cat was outside the house at all and in fact why the cat had managed to escape through the boundary fence.
If the court does not accept that I am telling the truth then I would respectfully ask the Court to consider a reduction in damages to take into account the defendant's own contribution to the incident by allowing their cat to have escaped and to have passed through a dilapidated boundary fence.

3.1 3. 12. My mother contacted the Defendant. T via text message throughout
Kiara's treatment to keep him informed as he requested. The Defendant did
not respond but my mother did receive two messages from the Defendant's
girlfriend, and I therefore believe he has received the messages we sent.
Copies of all text message correspondence can be provided. We initially
requested payment from the Defendant by text but when this was not made a
formal letter before action was sent on March 13th 2023. Despite formal
correspondence with the Defendant trying to resolve the dispute, and
providing them with all the necessary documents they requested, the
Defendant has refused to pay the amount requested.

not true: i did not agree to make payment for all the claimants incurred expenses.

not true: i have not received all the documents requested.

true: i have refused to pay the amount requested as i never agreed to pay the amount requested.

Paragraph 3.1.3.12 at no time did I agree to pay full the claimant's expenses. I requested various documents from the defendant and have not been provided with them.
On that basis it is correct that I have refused to pay the amount requested. I did at one point offered to pay £300 as a goodwill gesture. As an animal owner myself I felt empathetic to the predicament of a fellow animal owner

3.14. 13. The following documents can be provided to support this claim:
3.15. Text messages sent from~ to the Defendant, -

3.16. Text messages between the Defendants girlfriend.
3.1 7. All letters sent between the Claimant and the Defendant.
3.18. Photographs taken of the dogs and the Defendant on the 28th January
2023.

not true. i have not seen any photographs of me and my dogs, especially on their private property.
Paragraph 3.18 no photographs have been provided to me

3.19. Photographs of Kiara at the vets, showing her bruising.

not admitted. i have not seen any photos of the cat at the vets.
Paragraph 3.19 these photographs have not been provided to me

3.20. The Shrubbery Claim Completion Notification.
3.21. Vets Now Claim Completion Notification.
3.22. Burial Cost Claim Completion Notification.

not true. this is not true if the claimant is referring to a receipt from the local company that completed the burial.
Paragraph 3.22 I have not received any receipt from the local burial company

3.23. Pedigree Document.
3.24. Original Purchase Receipt for Kiara.
3.25. Bank statement showing The Shrubbery Ad m in fee for insurance.
3.26. Th ) Vets Bill.
3.27.
3.28. Kiara's Veterinary History.
3.29. Breakdown of total compensation sought.

not true. i have not received a breakdown of total compensation sought as some specific expenses and receipts have not been provided.
Paragraphs 3.23  to 3.29 I have not been provided with a breakdown of total compensation as some specific expenses and receipts have not been provided

Tlmellne of what happened:
28th January 2023
29th January 2023
30th January 2023
4th-28th Feb 2023
13th March 2023 -
18th March 2023
1Oth April 2023
16th April 2023
Evidence:
Letters, emails and other

The Defendant allowed his dogs to run off leads
onto Claimants private land and they attacked Kiara.

not true. i did not allow my dogs onto the claimants private land.

Defendant's information taken at scene. Kiara taken
to vet.
Claimant party informs defendant of ongoing vet
treatment and expenses via text. Defendant party
states in reply via text "We would like to offer you a
one off payment of £300 towards the cost" (No
payment made).

not true. the claimant refused my offer of £300 in full and final settlement. this offer was in good will even though i did not legally have to pay her anything.

Kiara was put to sleep and the Defendant was
notified via text and did not respond.
Text messages sent by Claimant party in an attempt
to resolve the dispute before a letter before action
was sent. Text messages were sent on 4th, 8th, 18th
and 24th February 2023. All text messages were
ignored by the Defendant.
Letter-before action was delivered -from claimant to
Defendant. Requesting compensation for out-of pocket
expenses and the cost of Kiara.

not admitted: i denied the request for compensation as i never agreed to paying any out-of pocket expenses.
not true: i did not say i would pay for the cost of the cat.

Defendant replies requesting further information
and records regarding details of Kiara's pet
insurance, vet treatment and bills, etc.
Letter from Claimant to Defendant. Request for
compensation to cover revised out-of-pocket
expenses relating to Kiara's injuries and the incident.

not admitted: i deny the request for compensation as i never agreed to paying any revised out-of pocket expenses.

The letter included an appendix containing all the
relevant documents he requested.

untrue: i have not received at least 2 specific documents that i asked for, so not all relevant documents were provided.

Reply from Defendant showing that he would not be
willing to make any offer of compensation and
suggesting that the Claimant issues a claim so "a
judge can sort it out in court".

true.

2 Letters from the Claimant- including an appendix

correspondence
Photo evidence
Other
Other

4. Claim amount details
Claim amount Items:
Excess and Administration
fees for Vets Now

not admitted.

Excess and Administration
fees for Shrubbery Vets

not admitted.

Petrol costs

not true as no petrol receipts provided or accurate evidence such as milage, routes and make and model and engine size of car.

Burial Costs

not admitted as no receipts from the 'local company' that buried the cat have been provided.

Initial cost of Kiara

not admitted. i have not agreed to pay for the cost of the cat.

5. Total amount
Claim amount
Claim fee:
Total:
Claim number:~
with evidence of out-of-pocket expenses.

not true: the claimant has not provided all of the evidence for out of pocket expenses that i asked for.

2 letters
from the Defendant.
Photos take by Claimant party on the day of the
incident (28th January 2023) of the Defendant and
his dogs. Photos of Kiara at the vets showing
bruising.
Text messages between Claimant party and
Defendant party.
Appendix included in Claimants 2nd letter including:
Appendix 1 -The Shrubbery Claim Completion
Notification. Appendix 2- Vets Now Claim
Completion Notification. Appendix 3 - Burial Cost
Claim Completion Notification. Appendix 4-
Pedigree Document. Appendix 5- Original Purchase
Receipt. Appendix 6- Bank statement showing The
Shrubbery Admin fee for insurance. Appendix 7-
The Shrubbery Vets Bill. Appendix 8 -Vets Now Bill.
Appendix 9- Kiara's Veterinary History. Appendix
1 0- Breakdown of total compensation sought.
£317.20
£146.24
£65.70
£42
£500
£1,071.14
£80
£1 ,151.14

not admitted. i have never admitted or agreed to paying this breakdown of total compensation sought.

 

 

 

[BankFodder]

You have probably told us already – but were you on your own when you are walking the dogs? In other words where you with anybody else who witnessed what happened?

[BankFodder]

Please have a look at the suggestions I have made in green above.

Please will you comment. Is there anything inaccurate. Is it all true? Is anything you would like to add? Is there anything that has been missed out?

We will leave in everything that is in green and everything else which is in black and in red will come out.

When we have your comments/approval/corrections – then I will go on to reduce it all to the green parts and that should form the basis of your defence.

Read it very carefully. Don't make any mistakes. Make sure you understand it and ask any questions.

Don't hang around. You're running out time. It's the weekend and we are busy as well and we have things to do. Once again, this should have been done some time ago and it could easily have been done in a much more relaxed fashion

[BankFodder]

Also, I'd like you to explain where you were. You say you didn't see any of it and yet you are walking your Dog's. Were the dogs out of sight? If they were out of sight then how do you know they hadn't entered the property?

At some point you became aware of what was going on. What did you do? How did you try to get the dogs back?

[BankFodder]

Please check the proposed defence below. Don't respond now. Read it carefully tonight – and again tomorrow.

You will have to sign this is a statement of truth which means if there is anything untrue you are committing a serious violation.
Read it to 3 times tomorrow.

Suggest any corrections or alterations here so we can have a look.

Ask any questions.

Get ready to send it off on Monday.

Reflect on this very carefully. The way they have presented their cases very strong. Presumably they have got their witnesses – the partner and the mother.
You don't seem to have addressed my question as to whether you are alone but it seems to me that you don't have any witnesses. However you have got photographs and you will have to try to leverage those to your best advantage.
I think we need to know about the Bengal cat. Whether it was an indoor cat. Why it was in the garden at all. Maybe it had been brought out on a sunny day that was meant to be under supervision but then it did a runner.

These are questions we need to ask.

 

Quote

 

Defence

 

The claimant's claim is denied.

It is not clear what basis the claim is being brought.

The claimant has referred to "trespass".

If the claimant was referring to trespass to land, then However, the property upon which my dogs were alleged to have entered does not belong to the claimant and so she should not be bringing any action based on trespass to property which does not belong to her.
Anyway, if the dogs did enter the claimant's land (which is denied) then the entry was not committed by myself directly and nor was it committed intentionally.
 

If the claimant was referring to trespass to her pet cat, then any trespass which did occur was neither direct nor intentional. It was a confrontation between animals are often seen as natural enemies.

However there was no trespass and my dogs did not enter the property from which a cat had escaped.

The property from which the cat had escaped is separated from the outside by a boundary fence which is in a dilapidated condition. However the dilapidated fence is then shielded by extremely dense and unmaintained undergrowth and my dogs would not have been able to penetrate the undergrowth and then to pass through the dilapidated boundary fence to enter onto the claimant's property.
Anyway, my dogs were fully under control and I would not have allowed them to enter onto the claimant's property. They only started to become agitated once they saw the cat which had escaped from the property, through the dilapidated fence and passed easily to the dense undergrowth as it was a much smaller and agile animal.

The dogs were not out of control and when I was aware of what happened I called my dogs and they came to me.

I then tied them (leashed) to a neighbouring property's gate.
The police were called and when the incident had been explained to them, they agreed that the dogs were not out of control and they said that it was simply a civil matter.
Had they considered that dogs were dangerously out of control they would have intervened and taken a more serious action.

The confrontation between the claimant's cat and my dogs occurred on a verge beside the road and after the cat had escaped through the dilapidated boundary fence from the land belonging to the defendant's mother
I have photographs which demonstrate the dense undergrowth and also the dilapidated fence which formed the boundary to the property from which the defendant's cat had escaped.

Anyway, the property referred to by the claimant does not belong to the claimant. It apparently belongs to her mother and therefore the claimant would not be in a position to complain of a trespass even if the claimant's account was correct.

Paragraph 3.2.1 of the claim – it is not clear accepted that the claimant is the owner of the cat.
The cat was at a property which does not belong to the claimant. The defendant requires that the claimant provides evidence as to their ownership of the cat and is entitled to to make a claim

Paragraph 3.3.2 of the claim – this is not correct and the claimant has no evidence that this is correct.

The defendants dogs were not on the private property. 
It seems that the cat had escaped or was allowed to roam from the property belonging to the claimant's mother by means of a dilapidated boundary fence and then through dense undergrowth and was now in an open field.
I believe that the dilapidated boundary fence belonged to the property from which the cat had escaped.
My dogs were not out of control. They were walking with me but then reacted in the way one might normally expect from dogs when a cat suddenly appears in front of them.
The cat appeared to be a valuable cat. Probably normally kept indoors and very nervous and unsure having been allowed to escape the property.

paragraph 3.4.3 of the claim -it is admitted that there was a fight between one of my dogs and the cat although I did not see it. I only heard it and I am unable to comment on the claimant's allegation.
However I repeat that the confrontation between the two animals did not occur on the property belonging to the claimant's mother.

paragraph 3.5.4 of the claim -once again, I did not see the confrontation. I only heard it. However I repeat that the confrontation did not occur on private land as alleged. It occurred in a hedge line approx 800m from the property on an open field after the cat had escaped or allowed to roam from the private property through a dilapidated boundary fence.
It is believed that the dilapidated boundary fence belonged to the property from which the cat escaped

Paragraph 3.6.5  of the claim - I did not run away from the scene.

Paragraph 3.7.6 of the claim - it is true that the police were called. I did not agree that I would be responsible for all the expenses incurred. However I was concerned about injuries to the animal and I did mention that I would be prepared to make a contribution to costs.

Paragraph 3.8.7 of the claim - I am unable to comment on this as I did not see it but I accept that this is probably correct

Paragraph 3.9.8 of the claim - I accept that this is probably correct

Paragraph 3.10.9 of the claim - it is true that I received a telephone call from the defendant's mother. It is not true that I agreed that I would be responsible for the veterinary fees.

Paragraph 3.11.10 I have not been provided with any evidence of this

Paragraph 3.12.11 of the claim - in the event that the court decides I am liable, I would dispute the amount of damages claimed.
For instance, although it may seem rather heartless, the cat is a "good" in the same way as a car or a washing machine.
Average life expectancy of a Bengal cat is 14 years and therefore any award for the value of the cat should be calculated on the basis that this is a four year old animal.

Also, there is no evidence that the claimant attempted to minimise the loss or to obtain comparative estimates

Also, if the court does decide that I am liable, then I would respectfully request the court to take into account the dilapidated condition of the barrier fence separating the property from which the defendants had escaped.
It is likely that if the fence had been properly maintained then the cat would have remained confined.
Also, a Bengal cat is normally a valuable animal and are mostly kept indoors. Clearly this cat had escaped and I believe that the claimant should explain why the cat was outside the house and outside the property at all and in fact why the cat had managed to escape through the boundary fence.

If the court does not accept that I am telling the truth then I would respectfully ask the Court to consider a reduction in damages to take into account the defendant's own contribution to the incident by allowing their cat to have escaped and to have passed through a dilapidated boundary fence.

Paragraph 3.1.3.12 of the claim - at no time did I agree to pay in full the claimant's expenses. I requested various documents from the defendant and have not been provided with them.
On that basis it is correct that I have refused to pay the amount requested. I did at one point offered to pay £300 as a goodwill gesture. As an animal owner myself I felt empathetic to the predicament of a fellow animal owner

Paragraph 3.18 of the claim - no photographs have been provided to me

Paragraph 3.19 of the claim - these photographs have not been provided to me

Paragraph 3.22 of the claim - I have not received any receipt from the local burial company

Paragraphs 3.23  to 3.29  of the claim - I have not been provided with a breakdown of total compensation as some specific expenses and receipts have not been provided.

To summarise, I have received demands for payment without any documents to substantiate the amounts requested.

statement of truth
signed
dated

 

 

[BankFodder]

After we have seen your comments, we may well want to make a couple of amendments.

I'm already interested in the fact that you called your dogs and they responded to you and came back. This is clearly evidence of dogs which are under control

[BankFodder]

What I meant was – why was the cat out of the house – but I'm assuming that it it is a cat kept indoors. If that's not the case then my question has no meaning.

I should tell you now that I'm very pessimistic about your chances. They seem very well organised. They seem to have at least two witnesses in addition to the claimant.
I'm sorry to say but you seem to be less in control of handling this kind of procedure than they do.

Having left it to the last minute in the way that you have has not helped at all because we are doing things in a rush.

You certainly need to hold of these neighbours who apparently have had to swerve the cats. You need statements – as many as you can get from them.
Those statements would not only have to talk generally about the need to swerve or seeing the cats in the road – but it would be excellent if they could actually say – for instance, on XXX date when I was driving home, I nearly ran over a cat which had clearly strayed off the XXX property.

All of these statements need to be done independently and worded differently.

At some point you will get a directions questionnaire and will suggest that you go to mediation. I suggest that you accept mediation and unless you feel really strongly about your position and that you can defend it, if you can come to some kind of negotiation at the mediation stage then it might be the prudent way forward.

Don't forget that if you lose the case, you have to pay the hearing fee on top of the claim fee and also if there are costs of enforcement – if you don't pay up pretty well immediately after the judgement – you will have to bear those as well.

 

[BankFodder]

Also you haven't explained how it was that you didn't see the dogs. Where were you in relation to the dogs at the time? You said that once you were aware of what had happened you called the dogs – in other words you took control – but where were the dogs? How can you be certain that they didn't enter the property?

You better think about that now and explain it here.
You will certainly be asked about that in court.

[BankFodder]

I've just edited some of your comments into the suggested defence which I posted earlier. Have a look. They are in red.

Also I have made some edits on your suggestions above.

You ask if the incident where she spoke to the people would be useful. It could easily be useful. You will have to explain to us how this might be useful.
I keep on asking you where you were in relation to the dogs and how come you didn't see what was happening – and you keep on not answering. It's getting a bit tiresome.
I'd like a written explanation please – not photographs

 

[BankFodder]

I understand very well where you were as the incident happened. What I want to know is where were you in the minutes before the incident. Where were the dogs? Did the cat appear in front of you? Did you only become aware of the cat after the dogs when after it?
That's what we want to know. That's what the court will want to know.

I understand very well that you probably have zero experience of going to court. I was going to suggest – and I do suggest now – that you make a court familiarisation visit. Make at least two or 3 separate court familiarisation visits. Read our court familiarisation guide

[BankFodder]

Thank you for the answer as to where you were just before the incident. You can be certain that if this goes beyond mediation and to trial, you will be asked exactly this and you need to have a very thorough explanation about it.
I'm going to make a further amendment to the suggested defence which I posted in green. The further amendments are in purple
After that I think that will probably be about it.

Suggest any amendments or any other comments. And then maybe you can post your final version here so that we know that we are all on the same page.

Once again, they seem extremely organised. You need to double check that you haven't received any of the paperwork that they claim to have sent you.
You are already going to be up against the claimant and two witnesses. You're going to have to be rock solid on your version of events because you don't seem to have much evidence to back up what you say.
Just to explain the case to you a little bit.

They seem to be alleging a trespass. I expect that they mean that your dogs trespassed on their property. However, it would only be the landowner or the land occupier who could complain of a trespass.
Also, a trespass must normally be direct and intentional. Trespass is really about the insult with the ownership or with somebody's rights over their land.

If the daughter was simply visiting or had no legal rights over the property then she would not be able to claim a trespass.
On that basis, there is no "cause of action" – meaning that there is no basis for her bringing a claim against you in trespass.
As I have said, they probably think that they are talking about trespass to land – and it hasn't occurred to them that the daughter doesn't have any rights against a trespasser.
However, there is another kind of trespass – trespass to goods. The cat amounts to "goods" – in exactly the same way that your dogs are "goods".
So I suppose that she could try to say that your dogs trespassed against her cat. However, trespass to goods must normally be direct and intentional as well because once again it is about the insult to the ownership of the cat.
In this case, I think it is beyond doubt that you didn't intentionally set the dogs upon the cat. The dogs got into a fight with the cat simply because they are natural enemies.

They should actually have bought the case in negligence on the basis that when you are walking your dogs you owe a duty of care to other people who might be affected by the way you look after your dogs. On that basis, it could be quite foreseeable that if a cat strayed into their path that the dogs would go for them. You might then have a duty to have prevented that and to have protected the cat or any other animal from suffering injury caused by your dogs.
Your failure to do this might be found to be a breach of your duty of care and therefore negligence.

So on that basis I think they have brought the one claim. However, in small claims the judges are very flexible and the judge may well recognise that the claim should have been brought in negligence and may decide to decide the case on that basis.

This is why in the claim that I have amended for you, I have pointed out to the judge that if the case goes against you, that the judge or to take into consideration that the owner of the cat was careless in allowing the cat to stray into the road and become a target for your dogs – or motorcars – or anything.

You mentioned that some neighbours had complained that they were sometimes forced to swerve around the cats which escaped from the land.
I think I asked you if you can get statements but I don't think you have addressed this point.

I'm asking it again.

To recap, your best points of your defence are:
that there was no trespass on the property – because your dogs didn't enter – and anyway it wasn't an intentional or direct interference by you.
That there was no trespass to goods because although there was a confrontation between your dogs and the cat, this was not direct from you and it was not intentional.
Therefore there was no trespass at all.

On the basis that the judge decides to consider the tort of negligence, you will need to bring evidence that you are entitled to walk your dogs off leash along that particular stretch of road. The arrival of the cat was completely unexpected. The cat was normally confined to the land belonging to the defendant's mother but somehow had escaped and that in fact it was the cat which was out of control – not your dogs.
As soon as you called the dogs to you, they came to you and allows you to attach the leash and to tie them to a nearby gatepost or something.

Tell us about the swerving.

Have a look at the amendments I have made and then copy the whole thing into a new post down below

Also, to respond to your question about visiting the court.

I think it's essential that you make a familiarisation visit. It's difficult to explain to you how beneficial this will be – but once you have done it you will start to understand.

It would be a good idea to do it even before mediation – assuming that you are not prepared to make compromises at mediation – but certainly after mediation (assuming that the mediation fails) it is essential that you make at least one – preferably three – familiarisation visits.

Just to add a quick note in relation to my suggestion that if the judge decides to consider it from a negligence point of view, when you are then asking the judge to consider that the defendant was herself negligent in the way she kept the cat under control and within the boundary of the property, you are suggesting that by her own negligence she has contributed to the incident and therefore she was "contributory negligent" and should therefore share in the damages award.

If a judge accepted this, the judge would try to make an estimate of the level of her contribution. If the judge agreed that she was maybe 40% responsible for the incident, then he would order you to pay the amount she was claiming reduced by 40% to represent her own level of negligence.

And I suddenly have a slightly more optimistic view of your chances. I have suddenly realised that all of their evidence relates to the the alleged trespass on the property.

However, she is not allowed to complain about trespass to somebody else's property. And also it is clear that even if there was an entry onto the property that it wasn't wilful and it wasn't direct.
This puts you in a much much better position than I had first thought.
I don't know why I didn't appreciate this earlier.

Tell us about the swerving – and can you get statements. This would be extremely useful for demonstrating the level of contributory negligence

[BankFodder]

Okay. We would have liked to have a final check of what you sent. Maybe you could post it here – but anyway, well done on getting in before the deadline. Let's keep fingers crossed.

Keep us updated

[BankFodder]

A shame that we didn't have a final version before you posted it up. We might have thought to remind you about this.

Yes, you will have to take it to court with you on the day – but you should send a copy of it to the claimant as well so that they have advance notice.