@evri - empty box for Samsung S21 Phone - court claim issues *** Settlement pre hearing***

[Downsway]

Hi,

 

I have come across Consumer Action Group in the past with advice about trading rights and now I am at a stage where i would appreciate your expertise in this specific case. After losing £449.50 through Paypal's decision to award the buyer a refund via eBay.

 

Sold the phone for £440, the buyer has disputed twice he not received the item but instead an opened box that he only realised after delivery. Ebay have awarded me the dispute as you can see the tracking number shows delivered by Herme / EVRi. After that the buyer has gone to the 'payment institution' (PayPal) and claimed the item was 'Not as described' where Paypal have given him a refund without a requirement to send the phone back. EBay are charging me as they claim I am NO LONGER eligible for seller protection as the decision was made by PayPal.

 

Particulars are:

 

• EBay Member since 2005
• I sold a Samsung S21 Mobile Phone with original packaging for £440 on eBay and posted it to the buyer using EVRi
• It was packaged in a sturdy parcel, weighting under 1Kg, described as 'Electronics' with tape wrapped tightly around the edges of the parcel and the shipping label attached - Photos were taken of parcel
• Dispatched it at Herme / EVRi Collection Locker drop-off on Wednesday 16th February 2022 at 1143 hours
• Delivered on Friday 18th February 2022 at 1150 hours
• No Signature taken but photo taken by Herme / EVRi that does appear to show the package is possibly damaged from the reflection on the tape (it is taken around 5 metres away)
• When the buyer received it he provided photos and reported that the parcel was opened and empty
• Buyer opened dispute with eBay claiming 'Item Not Received'
• eBay award case in my favour and I was paid £449.50 - listing fees
• Buyer then went to 'Payment institution' (Paypal) via eBay
• Buyer then changes reason to 'Item not Described'
• PayPal decides case in Buyers favour and awards refund
• eBay tell me to pay the money back
• I remove eBay direct debit (Cannot remove the funding source without replacing it with another one on their website)
• 27/03/22  - eBay state they took the money out of my account but this does not appear to be the case

 

Actions Taken

 

• Spoke with EBay multiple times. They claim they appealed the decision which was dismissed by PayPal. I stated that they had NOT asked me for any further evidence (i.e photos taken of parcel being sealed prior to sending) but they continue to claim they cannot appeal it again
• I have reported this Fraud with Action Fraud due to the buyer offering differing disputes that essentially now means (if he has received the phone) he is not required to send it back.
• Disputed the appeal with PayPal and sent photos of the packing and the original dispute made by the buyer. They are inconsistent, one message handler will invite me to send in documents when i do, they then say the dispute is between and the buyer and eBay. (EBay then refuse to appeal it further)
• Today 31/03, I have begun the process with Herme /Evri. I provided the two photos from the buyer and been given a case number. I await a response.

 

 

After seemingly exhausting the appeal with eBay / PayPal I am going after Herme / EVRi.

 

 

- I will sue Herme / EVRi if required and would appreciate your assistance

- What steps will eBay take when they realise the payment was unsuccessful

 

Thanks

[Downsway]

I have emailed the buyer asking for the photos/CCTV.

 

- Did not take out any additional insurance

-Approached Evri today (31/03) over chat and provided photos of the box opened which the buyer originally sent me/eBay. 

[Downsway]

Thanks, yes reported it stolen to Immobolise. 

 

EBay confirmed I was under the seller protection but apparently when the dispute is taken by a payment institution then they no longer offer it. Absolute farce by all accounts.

[Downsway]

Situation update:

Herme s/Evri

Still awaiting response to the claim form submitted on 02/04 and was responded to by Evri that they are investigating with a 28 day time limit. 

 

Unless anyone has any other advice, at the moment I will await their response. 

 

 

Ebay

EBay have messaged stating the payment they tried was unsuccessful and my payouts are on hold (I haven't used ebay since this). Advice please -Should I pay eBay at this point or let it runs it's course?

 

 

[Downsway]

@BankFodder@BankFodder no, I've submitted a (their own) 'Damage Claim Form', which includes eBay ID and photo taken by them at time of delivery. 

 

Thanks

Edited April 19, 2022 by Downsway

[Downsway]

@BankFodderThanks, I have produced the LOC attached following research on the forum. Can you advise any edits? Also, any advice on phrasing the companies negligence under CRA? I.e should I instead state fail to deliver, deliver damaged/missing goods etc? 

 

 

LOC CA.pdfLOC CA.pdfLOC CA.pdfLOC CA.pdf

[Downsway]

Thanks @BankFodder. I have seen varying info on whether to post AND email or just post?  Should I also include my address AND email address?

Edited April 21, 2022 by Downsway

[Downsway]

Done, I will come back once I have a response. 

[Downsway]

Received a response from Evri stating that due to not reporting the matter to them with 28 days they can no longer deal with a compensation claim. 

 

I will now move onto the next stage of legal proceedings. 

[Downsway]

@BankFodderHi, this was in response to the LOC sent 21/04. (it is posted above) 

 

I will now commence legal proceedings unless advise otherwise? 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Downsway

[Downsway]

@BankFodder here is EVRIs response:

 

Thank you for getting in touch regarding parcel xxxxx. I’m sorry to hear that you encountered an issue with this delivery, I can appreciate these situations can be frustrating for both yourself and your recipient.

Unfortunately, we are unable to proceed with your claim as Evri must be made aware of the issue relating to loss, damage or late delivery within 28 days of the parcel being received into our network, as stated in our Terms and Conditions, specifically 6.1:
 
‘6.1 We need you to notify us in writing of any claim for Loss or Damage or Late Delivery within 28 days of the date of the relevant Order. The sooner you make your claim, the easier it is for us to investigate.’
 
You are able to contact us either by calling our Customer Services Team or submitting your query to our virtual assistant Holly, available 24 hours a day.
 
Unfortunately, the request for a claim form was made outside of this time frame and so your claim has been rejected. I’m sorry for any inconvenience caused by this, however, we will be unable to issue a compensation payment on this occasion.

If you have any queries regarding another parcel in the future, please contact your Evri Customer Service Team and we’ll be happy to help.
 
Kind regards,

 

 

Muns 2658

[Downsway]

@BankFodder

Particulars of Claim attached for your feedback. Thank you once again. Much appreciated.

Particulars of Claim cons.pdf

[Downsway]

@BankFodder I have amended slightly..

 

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Downsway

[Downsway]

@BankFodder I have amended slightly..

Particulars of Claim cons1.pdf

[Downsway]

@BankFodderThanks, I have completed the money claim form now and await for it to be issued to EVRi.

 

Will keep you updated.

[Downsway]

11/05/22 - Claim issued to Evri by Money Claim

[Downsway]

Evri / Herm es have filed an an acknowledgment of service. Stating they will defend all of the claim.

 

They now have until 13/06/22 to file their defence.

[Downsway]

@BankFodder

Deadline for Evri is coming up on Monday. 

 

Just wanted to check if I've missed anything in terms of providing evidence by this date as in a criminal court this would be considered an anticipate Non-Guilty plea. 

 

Evri have until this Monday 13th June as they have stated they wish to defend the entire claim. As yet I have not received any correspondence/defence from Evri. 

 

So far I have issued the claim and provided the summary of key evidence however have not produced any evidence I. E. photos etc. I take it this is provided if or once Evri provide their defence? 

 

I have the photos now ready to go. My key evidence is the delivery photo they took at time of delivery aswell as photos taken from each side of item being sent and received. 

 

My plan is to request a judgement should this still be the case on Monday where I suspect I can then provide the photos? 

 

 

[Downsway]

Thanks @BankFodder.

 

In a criminal court, where defendant enters a non guilty plea you are required to provide evidence whether key, non-key, rebuttable presumptions etc. This is my area of expertise but civil proceedings is new to me. 

 

Well aware of the Evri antics, they appear to wait until the last minute each time from the multiple stories I've read of the last few months. Like I say, just wanted to make sure. 

 

I'll post it up as soon as received for your direction. 

 

I shall request a judgement on Monday first thing should I not receive a response. 

 

[Downsway]

EVRi filed their defence this morning (on a Sunday! ) via email which appears to be a fairly standard response with the £20 item value.

 

@BankFodder

HermDef1.pdf

[Downsway]

The value of the item automatically applies a level of insurance at a premium. 

 

To send a parcel undamaged and expect it to arrive in the same condition is a reasonable expectation. Their delivery photo shows this to the contrary. 

 

To state the value and consequent cost for insurance is only insuring the company against themselves losing or stealing the item. 

 

I have paid them for a service to deliver a parcel from a to b. They have failed to complete this by their own evidence and therefore the terms of contract and insurance clauses are irrelevant. 

 

 

[Downsway]

No, the item value was £440 not £20.

 

 

[Downsway]

Mediation booked for 20/7

 

No screenshots of booking. Have item value on eBay item summary with tracking ref and delivery address.

[Downsway]

Mediation Today

 

1st Call - Gave brief outline of the claim and confirmed I was happy with mediation.

 

Mediator is going back to EVRi.

 

 

2nd Call - Stated I didn't take out compensation, value of the claim. £24.95 max they would offer.

 

I stated the item was sold the day before which i have item information including the tracking ref, delivery address etc. and that the photo taken by them clearly shows it damaged and ultimately opened/empty. Happy for judge to make a decision. Happy to avoid costs for them not to go to court.

 

 

3rd Call - Offered £300 as this is their maximum they would offer due to their policy?? So in total £304.96

 

Amount declined. Going to court.

 

 

 

They had already stated they were not available until December, sounds like another tactic to make you settle. Will update with the court date.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Downsway]

Back in October last year, the case was transferred to my small claims court and scheduled for late January 2023. Mainly because EVRi stated they were not available for several months.

 

A new legal rep emailed me (Judy Cobbett) asking to settle out of court but only offering £24.95..

 

At first I ignored their message, more out of principle as I wanted them to have the expense of court. I responded a few weeks later stating I would only settling for the full amount. 

 

So they wanted proof of the item value. This was contested at the early stage as I did not opt for insurance or state an item value. I used the ebay item page that included the item value, delivery address and tracking reference.

 

They immediately offered me the full amount.

 

They kept to their word and have now paid. IN FULL.

 

 

 

All in all and for anyone having a similar case, this all took around 11 months to settle. I sold the phone back in mid-feb 2022 and after the warnings to EVRi took out the MoneyClaim in May.

 

Things generally go abit quiet after this until mediation a couple of months later, which didn't work in my case. I read there can be pressure from the mediator to settle but i didn't have any of this in my case despite not budging on the settlement amount, I did waive the interest fee. 

 

As the mediation 'failed' the case was sent to a track hearing which was moved to my local civil court where they request dates of your availability to attend. EVRi basically put they were not available for several months. 

 

But I stayed with it, at this point the money was not important but the principle of them getting away with losing or stealing my parcel. Eventually they paid up but avoided potentially losing in court. 

 

 

Thanks to @BankFodder for his excellent assistance and at times, blunt advice . Donation sent.

 

 

 

Good luck to whoever goes through this process (i'm sure there will be many) but the biggest challenge is not giving in as they will drag their heels as much as possible.