Israel/Gaza - UK Politicians reponse to current situation

[tobyjugg2]

 

51 minutes ago, Conniff said:

 

Are you actually supporting Israel CON ? - and there was me thought you were a holocaust denier

Please clarify you acknowledge the reality of and monstrous inhumanity and criminality of the holocaust.

 

and that you also condemn :

 UK government supporting Israeli right to defend itself using British armament to bomb and machine gun civilian City

"Bombing raids on the Palestinian territory began on 10 May and only halted on Friday after killing over 232 people, including 65 children."

The British military hardware used in Israel’s bombardment of Gaza

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/israel-gaza-uk-arms-exports-airstrikes-b1851734.html

 

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

1 hour ago, Conniff said:

Stop trying to draw me into it.

 

You raised the point CON

and I see you still haven't condemned the violence on both sides as I HAVE and do

you simply seem to have used these atrocious events and actions on both sides to attack a Corbynista

 

.. AND you still haven't confirmed you aren't a holocaust denier - so lets see an unequivocal condemnation of the holocaust and deniers from you.

 

- its quite simple CON - all you have to do is acknowledge that the holocaust occurred and was a monstrous act

- you dont even have to mention any support of Palestinians or Israel - simple basic human decency will do.

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Still cant get a condemnation of the holocaust and its deniers past your lips eh? CON

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

But your post is about you

 

So if you cant or wont condemn the holocaust and its deniers as any even half way decent human being (or at least none racist bigot) would, how about condemning Johnsons government that are supplying arms to bomb civilian cities?

 

[tobyjugg2]

No CON

It seems quite clear you are making yourself look like the sort of [edited - HB] who cant let a condemnation of their own prejudices pass their lips, and who fuels these sort of issues on both sides and elsewhere.

 

I can condemn atrocities on all sides - you just seem to want to use them for your own ends.

 

[tobyjugg2]

Some yes and no questions CON

 

1. Was the holocaust both real and an atrocity against Jews?

2. Is Israeli Bombing of Gaza an atrocity?

3. Is supplying arms to a nation that bombs civilians an atrocity?

 

[tobyjugg2]

Yes they have CON

you have just quoted it

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

2 minutes ago, Conniff said:

That is a completely different subject and nothing to do with Labour showing themselves up via McDonnell.

 

Is McDonnell speaking for labour? Undoubtedly not. Whatever he did say he might be speaking for Corynistas ... and might not

Who does he say he is speaking for?

 

So CON. Was the holocaust real, and an atrocity?

Its a simple question.

 

[tobyjugg2]

3 hours ago, Conniff said:

You really are weird, what the hell has Hitler got to do with your beloved Labour making an Anti-semitic hatred speech and Inciting Violence.

 

Quote

As you haven't said a single word against what he said it can only be taken that you agree with him and are also anit-semitic.

 

I have VERY clearly stated my opposition to and condemnation of anti-Semitism by anyone

- as barns quite correctly points out - anti-zionist as a different matter.

 

So read your own post CON, and tell us when are you going to condemn anti-semitism and holocaust denial?

Edited May 23, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

3 hours ago, tobyjugg2 said:

 

 

I have VERY clearly stated my opposition to and condemnation of anti-Semitism by anyone

- as barns quite correctly points out - anti-zionist as a different matter.

 

So read your own post CON, and tell us when are you going to condemn anti-semitism and holocaust denial?

 

Still waiting Con.

Surely you aren't going to leave yourself defined as an anti-Semitic holocaust denier .. by your own definitions?

 

Condemn atrocities by (the State of) Israel or Palestine all you wish and encourage peaceful resistance

- as others can and perhaps sometimes should more than they do

- which perhaps appears to be more what the Corbynista has actually done - and NOT on behalf of the Labour Party as you falsely claim

 

But despite demanding it of others, including me, 

you have NOT yet simply and clearly defined yourself as NOT being an anti-Semitic holocaust denier

 

So by your own stance - does that not declare you as precisely that?

 

 

Perhaps while we endure the looooong wait for you to DEMONSTRATE you aren't an anti-Semitic holocaust denier,

perhaps inform yourself:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/11/boris-johnsons-record-of-bigotry-antisemitism-and-far-right-politics-must-not-be-forgotten

Boris Johnson has invoked some of the oldest and most pernicious antisemitic stereotypes in a book he wrote when he was a Conservative shadow minister. He describes “Jewish oligarchs” who run the media, and fiddle the figures to fix elections in their favour.

- (clearly Freudian - TJ comment)

 

although this might represent your apparent widespread and deep seated prejudice better

https://www.varsity.co.uk/news/19816

"When questioned about Farage’s anti-semitic remark and the interviewer’s lack of intervention, the Cambridge University Jewish Society (CUJS) provided the following statement to Varsity: “There is a discernible and important distinction between critiquing Mr Soros’ politics and applying historically Antisemitic tropes to Mr Soros to incite fear and stoke up animosity. When, for example, Mr Farage described Mr Soros as ‘in many ways the biggest danger to the entire western world’ he did not respect this distinction.”"

 

So CON, ready to condemn anti-Semitic holocaust deniers yet, as you have demanded of others?

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

This particular instance appears to have been most related to Israel evicting Palestinians from their homes in the occupied zone and those homes being bulldozed to make way for more illegal Israeli settlements.

 

I really dont know the answer, but it seems to me that the only end to this approach (steady illegal invasion expansion into Palestine and killing their children to 'punish' resistance) is eventually a nuke (or more likely something possibly worse) being smuggled into and being set off within Israel.

You should never leave people believing they have nothing to lose, and it seems both sides are very close to that.

[tobyjugg2]

I think some are mistakenly crediting CON with reacting against something other than his own (and perhaps other extreme right wingers) 'mistaken' claims about mcDonuts 'anti Israeli actions' statements - so seemingly for purposes other than supporting Israel (rightly or wrongly).

A bit sad really when there is so much real stuff mcDonut and the Corbynistas could be flagged with.

 

Demonstrably - CON cant even let a simple clear unequivocal condemnation of anti-Semitism or holocaust denial pass his lips.

 

As he hasn't corrected his 'mistakes' yet, or even simply stated his abhorrence and condemnation of anti-Semitism and holocaust denial,

surely the lead assumption can only be that CONs' rants were not 'mistakes' but deliberate.

 

 

Regarding vaccines to gaza - Israel has apparently allowed a VERY limited number to pass the blockade is the last I read - more than happy to be corrected if that has changed since the Israeli bombing of an news services building holding a number of foreign journalists from a number of international news services..

 

although the Israelis apparently do give some an hours notice before the bombs fall - although there are some allegations that in some cases those fleeing the buildings after the notice are then attacked

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

CNNs report

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/20/middleeast/gaza-covid-conflict-intl/index.html

 

Note the damage to the Gaza Covid test center despite Israel having smart bombs

note that Israel claims it was bombing a nearby building, not the test center which was damaged - not destroyed

[tobyjugg2]

Its an impossible situation when 2 sides both believe they are fighting for their homeland against an interloper who wants them and their children dead or thrown out into the desert

 

I wasnt there but I understand some of the issues surrounding Britains agreements with Jewish 'actors which resulted in the State of Israel, and its possible that WWII would have been lost without those agreements .. but Britain again betrayed the Arabs in doing it, and actually betrayed Jews too.

and the implementation ... for gods sake

No wonder the Arab world continues to look upon us as the worst of crusaders.

 

Also consider American and Australian 'First peoples' among many others

What would each of us think if someone evicted us from our homes and communities and threw us out with no rights?

I'd pick up a shovel - and I wouldn't be digging with it until much much later.

 

[tobyjugg2]

More balanced, hopeful?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/opinion/israel-arabs-jews-citizens.html?action=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article

[tobyjugg2]

oops - that vast oversimplification should have read WWI of course duhhh

[tobyjugg2]

The U.S.’s diplomatic outreach to Palestinians

Antony Blinken, the U.S. secretary of state, on Tuesday promised the Palestinian government $112 million in aid and a reopened consulate in Jerusalem, both part of a broad pledge to rebuild ties that had been severed by the previous administration in favor of Israel.

But doing so risks angering Israel, the most reliable U.S. ally in the Middle East, whose leaders are already anxious about the Biden administration’s attempts to rejoin a nuclear agreement with Iran. Israel has long opposed and worked to undermine a deal.

-NYT

 

Interesting that:

* Israel is the US's 'most reliable U.S. ally in the Middle East' - not Turkey, not Kurds - who could have been if the US didn't repeatedly betray them.

* The US has promised about the price of just one of the UK/US supplied Israeli jets that has been bombing Gaza in aide to Palestine.

- Israel, reliable - LOL - as long as its in Israeli interests perhaps. Makes you wonder what is being agreed behind the scenes.

 

 

Also interesting that Palestinian 'leaders' interviewed are still clearly stating Israel does not have the right to exist. But then again:

'Ben-Gurion told the twentieth Zionist Congress, "The Jewish state now being offered to us is not the Zionist objective. [...] But it can serve as a decisive stage along the path to greater Zionist implementation. It will consolidate in Palestine, within the shortest possible time, the real Jewish force, which will lead us to our historic goal".^[30] In a discussion in the Jewish Agency he said that he wanted a Jewish-Arab agreement "on the assumption that after we become a strong force, as a result of the creation of the state, we shall abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine."^[31]'

^{- wikipedia}

[tobyjugg2]

5 hours ago, Conniff said:

No it won't, it will just be the same two whingers saying the same old thing.

 

Just come to whine CON?

or ready to show a little humanity and condemn the holocaust and its deniers?

.. maybe even add a little compassion for Palestinians?

 

That Brexit pig will fly first eh?

Edited May 31, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Has Con, or either of you come to clarify that holocaust deniers are racist lying **** as bad as self serving, morally vacuous liar Johnson, let alone Corbyn.

 

Without that simple clear condemnation of bigoted lying holocaust deniers, and holocaust denial itself, which seems to me a simple matter for anyone with even a tattered shred of remaining morals, I'm afraid I cant consider any such seemingly lie supporting bigoted persons opinions as worth the electrons they waste.

Edited August 1, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

and you CON, still haven't issued even a simple condemnation of holocaust denial

[tobyjugg2]

On 23/05/2021 at 11:11, tobyjugg2 said:

 

Are you actually supporting Israel CON ? - and there was me thought you were a holocaust denier

Please clarify you acknowledge the reality of and monstrous inhumanity and criminality of the holocaust.

 

 

 

Still waiting for a simple condemnation of holocaust denial and holcaust deniers from you @CONniff

Edited August 1, 2021 by tobyjugg2