SPML/LMC anyone claimed for mis selling and unfair charges?

[enoughisenough]

Maybe Dougal was right! Call to the SFO???

[Crapstone]

Anyone found all important connections on our creditors in relation to Dubai yet?

 

So many white elephants..but don't worry ..cash is just a printer away. Recession what recession?

Edited November 30, 2009 by Crapstone

[iconoclash]

Ryde,

 

sdlt, stamp duty ? ?..

 

it is unfortunate, that you have not grasped the argument by IS IT ME? and Wonderman, on the other thread. They both have, conclusively proved, the legal title is held by the SPVs. The only thing the SPV has failed to do(under LRA2002 s.27(4)part2(9,10,11), is register their legal title which is mandatory. I cannot continue to explain, as this is for the other thread.

 

 

 

 

ITBG?

Hi - adding further if this helps members. From Hansard :

 

I started my speech by referring to the other case, in which it became clear that parties who had no right to repossess a home were doing so. That is the situation with regard to much of the sub-prime market. The Land Registry should record a charge against a property, as under the Companies Act—section 395, which is about the first charge form—only where the parties seeking to record such an interest have proved that they are creditors with all the rights, responsibilities and duties pursuant under the definition of a creditor under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. At the moment, it is possible for someone to register a charge against a property even though they are not the legal owner of the loan against that property. The original case that Judge Rubery ruled on sets that out clearly. Unfortunately, the Land Registry does not make that clear, so most people in the sub-prime market have a charge against their property recorded by someone who is not the legal owner of the loan.

[enoughisenough]

Hi Campari

 

Have you got a link to this?

 

Thanks.

[ryde]

House of Commons Hansard Debates for 16 Oct 2001 (pt 5)

Think this may be the link the case is city mortgage corporation v riley however it is a long time ago and before synthetic mortgage securitization.

Thanks to campari2 for finding this it seems its the only link in what in todays terms could be a very important case.

Edited November 30, 2009 by ryde

[iconoclash]

Hi guys - yes thats the one - I put on another thread earlier I think - thanks:)

[ryde]

 

This is it posted in full

 

 

 

 

 

1.29 pm

 

 

Mr. Barry Gardiner(Brent, North): In securing this debate, my original intention was to examine the words of a young Back Bencher who, in 1987, was discussing that part of the consumer credit industry referred to as "sub-prime". He said:

 

 

 

"I think you need some measure of control and regulation to ensure that the unscrupulous aren't lending to the desperate when there's no possibility of repayment."

 

The young Back Bencher in question is now the Prime Minister.

I planned to examine today what effect the intervening years have had on the consumer credit industry. I wanted to look at current Government proposals, such as the task force on overindebtedness, and to discuss with the Minister ways in which consumer credit legislation could be updated. However, a particular aspect of the consumer credit industry has come to the fore during my investigations of the past 24 hours, and it is that aspect that I now want to raise with the Minister. She and I therefore share a common dilemma in that both of us may have to tear up our prepared speeches. I trust that she will be able to go with the flow of today's discussion.

On Friday 28 November 1997, before His Honour Judge Rubery at Stoke-on-Trent county court, the case of City Mortgage Corporation v. Riley was concluded. Given the Minister's previous role in the Government, she will be familiar with City Mortgage Corporation and many other financial corporations that I will talk about today. It must be said that CMC is not a company with a good track record in the industry. This was a typical case, like many that CMC had taken to court, involving repossession of a family's property. Of course, the mortgage had been secured on the property, but I am pleased to say that the judgment was not as CMC might have expected.

CMC argued that, although an equitable interest had been transferred to an American-based company called Greenwich International Ltd., CMC none the less had the right to enforce the debt. I am pleased to say that the court found otherwise. Mrs. Riley had done quite a bit of background work, and discovered documentary evidence showing that the legal interest, as well as the equitable interest, had been transferred to Greenwich International. The charge by CMC had never been registered because the Rileys' mortgaged property was not registered land. In accordance with section 114 of the Law of Property Act 1925, the deeds operate to transfer all rights to sue on the security to Greenwich International in America, rather than City Mortgage Corporation.

The long and the short of it is that, having pursued this debt, City Mortgage Corporation was found unable to do so by the courts because it had no legal standing, and costs were awarded against CMC. Before dealing with the significance of this case, I must tie it in with a second case that was heard at Basingstoke county court on 21 March last year, over which His Honour Judge Anthony Thompson QC was presiding. The case was that of Rozak v. Capital Credit Ltd. I know that the Minister will be familiar with the name of Capital Credit.

16 Oct 2001 : Column 230WH

Judge Thompson's summation outlined the following. The proceedings had been commenced in February 1998, at which stage it was a mortgage possession action brought by the then claimants, City Mortgage Corporation—hon. Members will see that a link is already beginning to develop—against Mr. and Mrs. Rozak in respect of their property. That claim was settled and the Rozaks lost their property. However, the case that Judge Thompson was dealing with was a claim by the Rozaks against Capital Credit Ltd.

The background is that Mr. and Mrs. Rozak lived at their home for about 20 years prior to its repossession. It was a council house that they were eventually able to purchase under the Government's right-to-buy scheme. They bought the property with the aid of a mortgage of £29,000 from the Nationwide building society. Problems set in for the Rozaks in 1992, when Mrs. Rozak lost her job as a result of industrial injury, and arrears began to accrue on the property. Judgments were made against them in the county court. I stress that at all stages the Nationwide building society acted absolutely properly in this case.

By 1997, the situation had become quite serious and the Rozaks were on the point of having legal action taken against them by the Nationwide. During a further visit from the building society, the seriousness of their financial position and the arrears that had fallen due were made clear to them.

In effect, the Rozaks needed to borrow £7,500, but they did not know where they were going to get it from. At that time they saw in the News of the World an offer of loans and finance placed by Capital Credit Ltd., which said that they had a chance to

 

 

 

"clear all your debts with cash to spare on low monthly payments".

 

Sums from £3,000 to £250,000 could be agreed. It was a tempting offer, which the Rozaks could not refuse, so they got in touch with Capital Credit. Capital Credit told them that because of their bad credit history it would not be able to give them the loan. However, it then offered them the opportunity to have someone come and talk to them about the possibility of a different loan, and sent a broker to meet them for that purpose.

At the meeting, the Rozaks were completely duped. They had wanted a loan of £7,500, but they were induced to remortgage entirely; instead of paying off their loan to the Nationwide, the new broker put them into an agreement with the City Mortgage Corporation. That loan was for a figure of some £47,000—a sum that at the increased rates of interest due on the mortgage, the Rozaks had no possible way of repaying.

What the Rozaks did not know was that the broker was a tied broker, and that they had entered into an agreement with City Mortgage Corporation with the original broker from Capital Credit. That agreement—I have a copy here, and will be happy to make it available to the Minister—was dated 21 December 1995 and was between City Mortgage Corporation Ltd., Capital Credit Ltd. and a certain Mr. Anthony Murtagh. It is a commission agreement. The court rightly looked at the agreement and the ruling by Judge Thompson explained that the broker was legally obliged to act on behalf of the Rozaks, but had not done so.

16 Oct 2001 : Column 231WH

It was clear from the right of first refusal in the agreement that Capital Credit acted as agents of the party whom they introduced—City Mortgage Corporation—rather than the Rozaks, and that although they owed that fiduciary duty to the Rozaks, they had in fact received secret commissions under the terms of the agreement. The court found that those commissions should be repaid, and that sum, plus costs, was made over to the Rozaks. However, to receive approximately £9,000 after losing the family home was a severe and bitter blow. It did not seem like compensation, because CMC had already obtained the Rozaks' home under a previous court judgment and sold it at a vast profit.

It is clear that secret commissions are a feature of the sub-prime lending market. Most mortgage lenders pay a fee to brokers for introducing a borrower; that is standard practice throughout the industry. The fee paid by a high-street lender for a standard domestic mortgage would probably be around £250. However, a non-status lender in the sub-prime market, which specialises in lending to people with poor credit ratings, often pays brokers a much higher introductory commission of up to 10 per cent. of the loan. That creates a clear conflict of interest between broker and client. If the broker persuades a prime lender to grant a £50,000 loan, the client receives an inexpensive loan, but the broker receives only around £250. If the broker places the client with a non-status lender or sub-prime lender, the broker may pocket up to £3,000, which is a common figure for brokers in the sub-prime market to expect as commission. In the Rozaks' case there was not only £3,000 up-front commission, but additional secret commission which took the figure up to about £8,000. The rule of thumb is that the worse the mortgage, the higher the commission paid to the broker.

Some mortgage brokers place themselves in a particularly difficult position, as did Capital Credit, because they take commission from both sides. Capital Credit took the up-front commission of £3,000 but also received a finder's fee from the lender, or a first refusal commission, as the agreement to which I referred explains. Under civil law, a bribe is the payment of secret commission, which only means that, first, the person making the payment makes it to the agent of the other person with whom he is dealing; secondly, he makes it to that person knowing that that person is acting as the agent of the other person with whom he is dealing; thirdly, he fails to disclose to that other person with whom he is dealing that he has made the payment to the person whom he knows to be the other person's agent. If a lender gives money to a broker and does not tell the borrower that he is doing so, no matter what the intention, it is a bribe under the law. It is not necessary to establish a corrupt motive, nor does the principal have to show that the agent was influenced by the bribe.

The judge concluded by stating:

 

 

 

"there is no doubt that the defendants (Capital Credit) were tied brokers and had to offer, pursuant to the 'first refusal' agreement, all transactions primarily to CMC. It is also clear that there was a secret commission which was by the very nature of the first refusal agreement kept confidential and which was paid to the defendants by City Mortgage Corporation apparently on 1 May 1997 in respect of this transaction... At the end of the day what this comes to is this, here was a secret commission and on the basis of the authorities to which I have referred I am satisfied that in those

16 Oct 2001 : Column 232WH

circumstances Mr. and Mrs. Rozak are entitled either to recover damages or at their election to recover the commissions which were paid."

 

The Rozaks did that, but it was not adequate compensation for having been duped into remortgaging, for not being able to pay off their original small debt to Nationwide, and for subsequently finding that their home was repossessed.

I started my speech by referring to the other case, in which it became clear that parties who had no right to repossess a home were doing so. That is the situation with regard to much of the sub-prime market. The Land Registry should record a charge against a property, as under the Companies Act—section 395, which is about the first charge form—only where the parties seeking to record such an interest have proved that they are creditors with all the rights, responsibilities and duties pursuant under the definition of a creditor under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

At the moment, it is possible for someone to register a charge against a property even though they are not the legal owner of the loan against that property. The original case that Judge Rubery ruled on sets that out clearly. Unfortunately, the Land Registry does not make that clear, so most people in the sub-prime market have a charge against their property recorded by someone who is not the legal owner of the loan.

The case of City Mortgage Corporation offers a very good example of how that has been done. The company collapsed in 1997 as a result of a class action brought against the parent company, which was called Cityscape. The action was brought by the shareholders as they had, in effect, been lied to about how United Kingdom loans had been securitised. An out-of-court settlement was agreed with those shareholders, which was worth many millions of dollars. After City Mortgage Corporation collapsed, a company called Ocwen US began to collect the UK loans. Borrowers thought that Ocwen US owned the loans, but it did not. Ocwen US then set up a company called Ocwen UK, which sought to buy out the loans from Cityscape. There was a falling out over that, and in 1998, when the Office of Fair Trading issued guidelines to stop dual interest rates, Ocwen UK announced a mortgage holiday. That marked one of the substantial successes of the Office of Fair Trading at that time.

Ocwen UK was bought by the Royal Bank of Scotland in 1998 and a new company called the "I" Group was set up. I am aware that these names are very familiar to the Minister—although of course I am not referring to the Royal Bank of Scotland. The "I" Group is another extremely disreputable lending company. The Royal Bank of Scotland's intention was to clean up the sub-prime market. In fact, the "I" Group did not adhere to the regulations attached to it by the Royal Bank of Scotland and Ocwen Loans was still being sold and marketed as such until the middle of 2000. The "I" Group has now been bought out by GE Capital. In June of this year, it paid approximately £200 million for £1.6 billion worth of loans.

The difficulty is not keeping tabs on such matters—which is difficult enough—but in drawing together the strands. I want to explain matters as briefly as possible so that the Minister can at least acknowledge the problems. I do not expect her to make a substantive response this morning, but I hope that she will

16 Oct 2001 : Column 233WH

undertake to explore them further. Claims like that by Mr. and Mrs. Rozak are outstanding against the "I" Group, which is owned by GE Capital, which bought it from the Royal Bank of Scotland, and they could be worth about £1.25 billion. Such claims are every bit as good as the Rozaks' claim, and would stand up in court against the group because of the way in which homes have been repossessed by companies that had no legal ownership of the loans outstanding and charged against those properties. The Government should regulate to make it illegal for any broker to conclude a loan agreement without the inclusion of a standard sheet or form setting out clearly and precisely all remuneration that the broker receives by way of commission or in any other way from the lender or any other party in respect of the contract. The broker is, and should be, the agent of the borrower. The mortgage code lays that down, and it is followed by most of the major mortgage companies and lenders. However, the code is ritually ignored in the sub-prime market, so the borrower does not know of the secret commissions and bribes that are paid when he or she takes out a loan. They form part of the illegal commissions that companies such as CMC, Ocwen and the "I" Group have been receiving and have based their business on in the sub-prime sector for many years.

It is also important that the Government review the decision of the Office of Fair Trading to refrain from taking proceedings in the restrictive practices court in respect of the agreement between City Mortgage Corporation Ltd., Capital Credit Ltd. and Anthony Murtagh, to which I referred earlier. That agreement is no longer in force, but the OFT should initiate proceedings in respect of what happened. The Minister should convene a meeting with GE Capital about the claims that the "I" Group, which it owns, faces about the secret commissions on loan contracts that the group had concluded. The meeting should focus on the practice in the market of pursuing such loans through a party that, although registered at the Land Registry as having a first charge against the property, had no legal ownership of the loans in the first place.

 

1.54 pm

 

 

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (Miss Melanie Johnson ): My hon. Friend raises an interesting topic that concerns many consumers. He will forgive me if I concentrate largely on the general issues, because, as he will be aware, I have not received any prior details of some of the specific points that he made.

Many people use consumer credit because of the flexibility that it gives them in their financial planning, and to buy goods and services that they might otherwise be unable to afford. To make informed and confident decisions about credit, consumers need good quality information that allows them to make intelligent choices between different products and makes them aware of the risks to which they may be exposing themselves, especially in the case of loans secured on property. Those points are all relevant to the general thrust of my hon. Friend's argument.

16 Oct 2001 : Column 234WH

Consumers rely on consumer credit legislation to ensure that they receive the right information to provide them with the necessary protection. That is especially important for so-called non-status credit, when consumers face reduced choice because of problems that they have encountered with credit in the past, and may be at risk of exploitation.

The Consumer Credit Act covers credit of up to £25,000, so it would not cover some of the figures that my hon. Friend cited. It has been on the statute book since 1974, and the bulk of its associated regulations have been in place since the early 1980s. Its essential philosophy—that there should be truth in lending—remains as valid today as in 1974. Several amendments have been made to it since then, but there has been no major reform for almost 30 years. As I believe that there is room for improvement, I announced in July that the Department of Trade and Industry would undertake a wide review of the Act.

Several key factors led me to the conclusion that now is the time to review the Act. Credit products and marketing methods have changed a lot since 1974, and we need to ensure that the Act remains relevant and continues to offer consumers the protection that they need in the modern credit environment. In our election manifesto the Government undertook to increase protection against loan sharks. We need to examine whether existing protections against extortionate credit are effective, and whether provisions on consumer credit licensing can be improved so that the Office of Fair Trading can take vigorous enforcement action against rogue lenders and, when justified, exclude them from the market.

When I was Economic Secretary to the Treasury I decided that the Financial Services Authority should take responsibility for regulating mortgages, and the new regulatory regime is due to start next year. We need to ensure that regulation under the Consumer Credit Act complements the FSA regime.

Last year, the Government set up a task force on tackling overindebtedness. Its report, which I received earlier this year, contains several recommendations that I want to take forward. Some overlap with the subject matter of the Act, and it makes sense to take them forward at the same time as part of our review.

When I announced in July that we would be reviewing the Act, the DTI published a consultation paper entitled "Tackling loan sharks—and more", which set out the key objectives for the review—to develop a new consumer credit regime that targets rogue traders, reduces burdens on legitimate business, reflects market changes in consumer credit and improves the advice and information that consumers receive about consumer credit products.

Many of the changes that we want to make to our consumer credit legislation will have a particular impact on non-status credit. Our proposed changes affecting consumer credit licensing and extortionate credit will crack down on rogue lenders and help consumers who are parties to unfair deals. Our work on improving the transparency of loan information will also help

16 Oct 2001 : Column 235WH

consumers identify good deals and avoid those that are not such good value. The Director General of Fair Trading used his powers under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to introduce guidelines to set out practices that he regards as deceitful, oppressive or otherwise unfair or improper, whether unlawful or not, and which would be likely to lead him to take regulatory action against licence holders or to consider his powers under the unfair terms and consumer contracts legislation. 16 Oct 2001 : Column 236WH

My hon. Friend has raised some interesting questions. The next course of action for him to take would be to set out his concerns in further detail in writing to me at the DTI, and if he does, I shall take up and consider the issues that he raises.

 

 

It being Two o'clock, the motion for the Adjournment of the sitting lapsed, without Question put.

 

IndexHome Page

[h8them]

Ryde,

 

sdlt, stamp duty ? ?..

 

it is unfortunate, that you have not grasped the argument by IS IT ME? and Wonderman, on the other thread. They both have, conclusively proved, the legal title is held by the SPVs. The only thing the SPV has failed to do(under LRA2002 s.27(4)part2(9,10,11), is register their legal title which is mandatory. I cannot continue to explain, as this is for the other thread.

 

 

 

 

ITBG?

 

Hello is it me?

 

I would be very interested to learn your definition of conclusively proved

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgages-secured-loans/210243-mortgage-securitisation-equitable-legal-11.html#post2613737

[gustavius rex]

Hi Guys,

Someone asked, a few pages back, how l was doing. Well, l'm busy, so busy there's not enough hours in the day. 3 court cases with one a.sh...e who managed to get a ccj by forwarding the questionnaire to the wrong address. Will, of course, ask for a set aside eventually, but, it will cost more money and require more time, which l do'nt have. Am checking up here daily, though, but must admit l'm a bit disappointed at the lack of real progress. Still a lot of tailchasing and very little constructive action. Some good has been done and l expect to be back full time shortly with some real interesting stuff, particularily regarding repos, which l've just gone through and managed to avoid. Next step is to get this awful suspension set aside, but, that will be another story.

Keep up the fight, but, please try to avoid to much unrequired arguments and get the dingaling moving.

Best Regards to all of you Revolutionaries.

Gustavius (Che') Rex

[I'm the bad guy?]

Dummy corporation also called Dummy company and has one more synonym:

 

A dummy company is an entity created to serve as a front or cover for one or more legitimate companies;

 

It can have the appearance of being real (logo, website, public relations) but lacks the capacity to function independently

 

1. The goal of dummy corporation can be to conceal true ownership and/or avoid taxes
    
   
2. one way to cook the books in a dishonest attempt to hide the true financial status of a company
    
   
3. An example of a dummy company is the now-defunct Japan Asia Airways (JAA)
   

DUMMY : LEHMAN BROTHERS ASSETS MANAGEMENT LTD

 

REAL OWNER: ALL THE SPVs- Public Limited Companies(PLCs)

 

JACKALS: Capstone Mortgage Services Ltd; PWC;

 

This (OP) own opinion. To corroborate, I guess no-one 'google mapped-streetview' the operating offices of SAFARO Corporation Ltd- tell me what you see?

 

 

 

ITBG?

follow the

money

Edited November 30, 2009 by I'm the bad guy?

[iconoclash]

Hi - any help with this pls

 

I wrote to Southern Pacific in January and March of this year asking for my files (SAR) with fee paid - I have heard nothing. I wrote to High Wycombe address but note that the I.C.O. have them down as being in Broadgate London EC2M 2QS. Should I write there?

 

I am certain they have s****ed us over with a loan that was converted into a mortgage, shifting from SPPL to SPML. Still trying to get the info on all the fees, ERCs etc. Should I just cut to the quick and issue a claim guestimate??

 

many thanks

[on*the*case]

Hi - any help with this pls

I wrote to Southern Pacific in January and March of this year asking for my files (SAR) with fee paid - I have heard nothing. I wrote to High Wycombe address but note that the I.C.O. have them down as being in Broadgate London EC2M 2QS. Should I write there?

many thanks

 

You have written twice? Have they cashed the cheque/PO?

 

Write again to SPML enclose a copy of your previous SAR, sent it Recorded Delivery.

Ask for their response within 7 days, say that if they fail to respond, you will without notice complain to the Information Commissioner's Office.

It's your information - Information Commissioner's Office (ICO)

Good Luck

[ryde]

Can anyone find a link to city mortgage corporation v riley other than hansard I saw this ages ago and it was also posted by the mainman nearly a year ago on the preferred thread but details of the case seem to have been obliterated.

Carol Riley set up the national association of mortgage victims and helped many people. It would appear it did her personally little good as she was made bankrupt about a year ago,hopefully it was a "planned bankruptcy".

This was and is an important case and one of the few where the lender ACTUALLY LOST,yet it seems to have had little if any coverage.

[scedminc]

Can anyone find a link to city mortgage corporation v riley other than hansard I saw this ages ago and it was also posted by the mainman nearly a year ago on the preferred thread but details of the case seem to have been obliterated.

Carol Riley set up the national association of mortgage victims and helped many people. It would appear it did her personally little good as she was made bankrupt about a year ago,hopefully it was a "planned bankruptcy".

This was and is an important case and one of the few where the lender ACTUALLY LOST,yet it seems to have had little if any coverage.

 

Hi Ryde,

 

Was it on the NAMV website you found it as I think it was the Hansard one that was on there?

 

Sced

[ryde]

sced may have been,can only find hansard. A year ago sure I read full transcript of trial.While searching found another piece of hansard it seems nothings changed in all these years, city mortgage corporation was the capstone and cronies of its day! see this if interested:

House of Commons Hansard Debates for 25 Apr 2001 (pt 5)

[scedminc]

sced may have been,can only find hansard. A year ago sure I read full transcript of trial.While searching found another piece of hansard it seems nothings changed in all these years, city mortgage corporation was the capstone and cronies of its day! see this if interested:

House of Commons Hansard Debates for 25 Apr 2001 (pt 5)

 

Ryde,

 

Definately is the Hansard version i'm afraid. I just looked at the NAMV website and its the same version.

 

How I got to look at the NAMV website, all I can say is where there's a will there's a way

 

Sced

[iconoclash]

Hi - cant find the case script - there's an article on The Telegraph from June 2004 re NAMV if any use.

[iconoclash]

Ryde,

 

Definately is the Hansard version i'm afraid. I just looked at the NAMV website and its the same version.

 

How I got to look at the NAMV website, all I can say is where there's a will there's a way

 

Sced

 

Hi - if you want info about what went on with CMC the OFT reported on them April 1999 - Report is re Unfair Terms etc and they were forced to stop using the rule of 78 calcs, dual rates etc., and make refunds.

[wonderman]

Re City Mortgage Corporation v Riley

 

Hi All,

 

The case is a County Court case that is "Unreported", but it has been cited in a couple of other cases. See e.g., on the bailii site:

 

 

GMAC RFC LIMITED

 

Claimant/Respondent

 

- v -

 

(1) MICHAEL GRANT-SINCLAIR

 

(2) CHRISTINE GRANT-SINCLAIR

 

 

1. During the course of the argument my attention has been drawn to an interesting case, namely City Mortgage Corporation Ltd v Reilly and Reilly, which was an unreported decision of Judge Rubery in the Stroke-on-Trent County Court, dated 28th November 1997. On analysis that decision does not, in my judgment, assist the applicant for this reason. There the claimant was City Mortgage Corporation Ltd, which was the original lender and mortgagee. The original mortgage was dated 15th March 1996. On I think the same day a transfer of what Judge Rubery held to be the legal and beneficial interest in the charge was transferred to another company called Greenwich International Ltd. The transfer was not dated and it was submitted on behalf of the claimant, which was City Mortgage Corporation Ltd, that it took effect only in equity and not in law. I should add that notice to the defendants of the transfer was given on the same day, 15th March 1996.
   
2. The judge rejected the claimant's submission and held that the transfer operated as a transfer of the legal interest and that notice of that transfer had been given to the defendant, so that the transferor or assignor, City Mortgage Corporation Ltd, no longer had any rights under the charge. Those rights were vested in the transferee or assignee, namely Greenwich International Ltd. Accordingly, the claim failed.
   
3. 
   

 

 

Hence the reason why the Legal v Equitable argument is so important. The lenders can be defeated with this argument provided that the truth and the evidence is before the court. This is why the lenders conceal and hide the Mortgage Sale Agreement! The truth is that it is a legal assignment.

 

 

AND TO ALL SPML BORROWERS, THIS FOLLOWING CASE MAY BE OF GREAT INTEREST...you see, like SPML, City Mortgage Corporation were also repossessing homes when it appeared that City mort. corp. may have been in liquidation

 

OCWEN LIMITED Claimant/Respondent

- v -

 

ALEXANDRA QUINN

[h8them]

Re City Mortgage Corporation v Riley

 

Hi All,

 

The case is a County Court case that is "Unreported", but it has been cited in a couple of other cases. See e.g., on the bailii site:

 

 

GMAC RFC LIMITED

 

Claimant/Respondent

 

- v -

 

(1) MICHAEL GRANT-SINCLAIR

 

(2) CHRISTINE GRANT-SINCLAIR

 

 

1. During the course of the argument my attention has been drawn to an interesting case, namely City Mortgage Corporation Ltd v Reilly and Reilly, which was an unreported decision of Judge Rubery in the Stroke-on-Trent County Court, dated 28th November 1997. On analysis that decision does not, in my judgment, assist the applicant for this reason. There the claimant was City Mortgage Corporation Ltd, which was the original lender and mortgagee. The original mortgage was dated 15th March 1996. On I think the same day a transfer of what Judge Rubery held to be the legal and beneficial interest in the charge was transferred to another company called Greenwich International Ltd. The transfer was not dated and it was submitted on behalf of the claimant, which was City Mortgage Corporation Ltd, that it took effect only in equity and not in law. I should add that notice to the defendants of the transfer was given on the same day, 15th March 1996.
   
2. The judge rejected the claimant's submission and held that the transfer operated as a transfer of the legal interest and that notice of that transfer had been given to the defendant, so that the transferor or assignor, City Mortgage Corporation Ltd, no longer had any rights under the charge. Those rights were vested in the transferee or assignee, namely Greenwich International Ltd. Accordingly, the claim failed.
   

 

 

Hence the reason why the Legal v Equitable argument is so important. The lenders can be defeated with this argument provided that the truth and the evidence is before the court. This is why the lenders conceal and hide the Mortgage Sale Agreement! The truth is that it is a legal assignment.

 

 

AND TO ALL SPML BORROWERS, THIS FOLLOWING CASE MAY BE OF GREAT INTEREST...you see, like SPML, City Mortgage Corporation were also repossessing homes when it appeared that City mort. corp. may have been in liquidation

 

OCWEN LIMITED Claimant/Respondent

- v -

 

ALEXANDRA QUINN

 

 

The truth is that it is a legal assignment.

 

and why was it a legal assignment

 

I should add that notice to the defendants of the transfer was given on the same day, 15th March 1996.

 

held that the transfer operated as a transfer of the legal interest and that notice of that transfer had been given to the defendant,

 

notice has been given to the borrower as required by s.136. appears to be the confirmation required to end the debate once and for all. my sincere thanks wonderman

 

Section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925

states:

 

136 Legal assignments of things in action

 

(1)Any absolute assignment by writing under the hand of the assignor (not purporting to be by way of charge only) of any debt or other legal thing in action, of which express notice in writing has been given to the debtor, trustee or other person from whom the assignor would have been entitled to claim such debt or thing in action, is effectual in law (subject to equities having priority over the right of the assignee) to pass and transfer from the date of such notice—

 

If we cut out the extra bits, it says:

 

Any absolute assignment of any debt or other legal thing in action, of which express notice in writing has been given to the debtor, is effectual in law to pass and transfer from the date of such notice.

Edited November 30, 2009 by h8them
added suetonius's quote

[ryde]

The only absolute conclusive proof will be if someone actually gets hold of the elusive, secretive mortgage sale agreement and it states such in the agreement;have requested one is produced through proceedings ;will see what happens and let you all know,mind you knowing this lot if one is produced who will know whether or not they've concocted it in their favour..?! would be par for the course..

[Crapstone]

Hi - any help with this pls

 

I wrote to Southern Pacific in January and March of this year asking for my files (SAR) with fee paid - I have heard nothing. I wrote to High Wycombe address but note that the I.C.O. have them down as being in Broadgate London EC2M 2QS. Should I write there?

 

I am certain they have s****ed us over with a loan that was converted into a mortgage, shifting from SPPL to SPML. Still trying to get the info on all the fees, ERCs etc. Should I just cut to the quick and issue a claim guestimate??

 

many thanks

 

Did they cash your fee or lose it as they usually do? Try through Broadgate, but it's all the same end result. Make sure you keep your postal records and be strict with them. They don't do it first time around ..they think we are idiots.

 

Make an official complaint and don't issue another cheque until they can explain where the last one went. Requires Bold and Underlined heading with each issue in bullet point otherwise they glance over the issues. Keep them over a barrel and threaten them/ carry out the threat until they comply.

 

You have to make life as difficult for them as they do for you

[Crapstone]

Has anyone ever heard of B4U? All this talk reminds me of the little action taken against them even though they were open to civil cases. Did any of you take that up even though your electoral details and more were banded about without your concent?

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi All!

 

Campari2,

 

I would like to help to clarify a few points which may seem to have caused alot of confusion - I believe I mentioned this in previous posts but not recently:

 

1.SPML - A mortgage company that granted first charge mortgages on properties in the UK.This means that every mortgage would have to comply with any mortgage regulations and would be no less than 25,001 pounds in monetary value.

 

2.SPPL - A secured loan company that granted 2nd charge loans on properties in the UK.This means that no loan would exceed the 25,00 pounds mark to comply with The Consumer Credit Act.

 

Both companies were a part of the Lehman mortgage and secured loans business in the UK and therefore with two totally different and seperate entities.

 

3.There were other companies that were owned by Lehman i.e.Preferred and London Mortgage Company come to my mind.

 

4.Personally,I think the biggest misleading aspect of all of this is the fact that no borrower(s) know(s) that his/her/their mortgage or loan is going to be securitised to the extent that the investor brochures state that no notification of the borrowers of the securitisations would ever be forthcoming.

 

5.Also,the other issue is that to grant a mortgage or loan by deed secured on a property implies that any borrower would be granted a mortgage over a term of 25 years.However,the whole objective of any securitization is to make a "quick buck" and to never allow any borrower to have a mortgage for the full 25 years.Therefore there is clearly a total conflict of objectives and most importantly without the borrowers' knowledge.

 

6.A second charge loans is a slightly different animal as it must be of a length of time equal or less than the first charge mortgage.Generally speaking and in most cases it would a Consumer Credit Act loan too.

 

In the particular case of SPPL,all the loans on its boks were Consumer Credit Act loans.

 

Anyway,I hope this helps.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On a seperate note:

 

Does anybody have any further information on the Ocwin Limited V Alexandra Quinn case?

 

Many thanks in advance.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Nightmare4banks

[iconoclash]

Hi - thanks. As I recall it we had a £10k secured loan which must have been a second charge therefore. The mortgage was with another company totally. It was suggested I convert the loan into a mortgage as they already had the house on it - so to speak - so we did. Moved it over therefore, from SPPL to SPML and increased, however, the loan had only run for a short while and this was settled in the figures to include all their associated costs. This included a brokers fee and despite paying it for approx. 8 months I recall paying the total £10k plus some to clear it and this was added to the mortgage. I now see that this company seems to have been paying 'itself' with all being Southern Pacific at the same address. I have since moved the mortgage on but want to get the papers from them hence my SAR early this year. The follow up in March already gave them notice and they did have the fee so I need to report them to the ICO. I also rang them a few months ago and they say they cannot find the files.??