IDEM Claimform - HSBC Loan or was it?***Claim Discontinued***

[Tbirdo]

In the CCA request am I including section 77 request as it is relevant to loans. ?

CPR request letter ready to go.

 

Am I sending both these letters to the solicitors address ?

 

I am already drafting out a defence , will post up soon

 

Any advice is always appreciated

[AndyOrch]

Yes section 77....CPR 31.14 for Loan and CPR 31.14 for current account version.

 

Section 77 to claimant CPR to Sol.

 

 

Andy

[Tbirdo]

Sorry for the silly question, am I sending 2 CPR letters ? One for the loan and one for the current account ?

Edited November 25, 2018 by dx100uk
quote

[AndyOrch]

Well yes...you know thats how the debt is made up so you want to ask for all documentation in connection....it also informs the claimants that you know this is an amalgamated debt and that they are not going to get away with one debt amount and one set of documents.

 

They wont come out and state there is no overdraft connected and they will also be wary that he court insist on disclosure for the overdraft content.

 

 

Andy

[Tbirdo]

Right I understand what you are referring to now.

Thanks again for the advice

 

Should I also list the account numbers for the loan and current account ?

Edited November 25, 2018 by dx100uk
merge/quote

[AndyOrch]

No just reference the claim number...dont help them !!

[Tbirdo]

Thank you

[Tbirdo]

Good morning. I have drafted out a planned defence using other threads as guidance.

 

POC for reference

 

Name of the Claimant ?

IdemCapital Securities

 

Date of issue

19/11/2018

 

 

 

Particulars of Claim

 

1) An agreement between HSBC and defendant/s (D) to standard terms and conditions

 

2) Claimant © purchased the debt 06/10/2016

 

3)It was a term of the agreement that if any instalment was not paid on due date, C would be entitled to repayment of outstanding balance of total amount payable, less (on payment)any rebate to which D might be entitled.

 

4) D failed to pay instalments due, C issued a Default Notice requesting payment D failed to pay the sums due, which consequently became immediately due and payable, Formal Demand issued dated 05/11/2018

 

5) D has failed to pay the outstanding balance 0f £8939.44

 

 

DEFENCE

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of the claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5(3) in relation to any particular allegation to which is specific response has not been made.

 

2. Paragraph 1 is noted I have in the past had financial dealings with HSBC. I do not recall the precise details of any agreement but do recall it was on or about 1998.

 

3. Paragraph 2 is noted & 3 denied as I have never entered into any agreement with the claimant therefore I can not be in any breach of any terms as no agreement exists with the claimant.

 

4. Paragraph 4 is denied as above because the claimant could not have issued a Default Notice as they only bought the debt 16/10/2016 and as far as I can recall any breach with the original creditor would have been on or around 2009. The claimant as an assignee would not be able to legally issue a Default Notice as the debt would have been already terminated before assignment.

 

5. Paragraph 5 is denied. Notwithstanding the above, requests for information pursuant to the consumer credit act (section 77) and

CPR 31.14 were made. A Section 77 request was sent on 27/11/2018, and shows as received 28/11/2018. A CPR 31.14 request was sent 27/11/2018 and shows as received 28/11/2018. The claimant has still not complied to my Section 77 request, but in a previous letter dated 13/12/2017 the claimant acknowledged the were unable to supply a copy of the agreement and acknowledged until they could do so the agreement cannot be enforced. The claimant has yet to comply to my CPR 31.14 request.

 

 

Therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(A) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the claimant; and

(B) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for: and

© evidence any nature of breach and show service of a Default Notice and Notice of sums in arrears pursuant to the CCA 1974

(D) show how the claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

 

5. As per Civil Procedureicon Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

6. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt as alleged it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

7. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

 

 

any advice is always appreciated

[AndyOrch]

I would suggest something along the following lines......

 

 

DEFENCE

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of the claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5(3) in relation to any particular allegation to which is specific response has not been made.

 

2. Paragraph 1 is noted I have in the past had financial dealings with HSBC.That being a Loan Agreement and a Current Account with overdraft facility,neither of which had a credit limit to the value the claimant purports to be allegedly outstanding.I do not recall the precise details of the agreements but do recall it was on or about 1998.I have therefore sought clarification and requested copies of the agreements from the claimant by way of a section 77 request and a request pursuant to sec 61 B of the CCA1974 for the amalgamated alleged amount.

 

3. Paragraph 2 is noted but denied as I have never been served with a Notice of Assignment pursuant to sec 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

4. Paragraph 3 is noted but given the claimant is and remains in default of a section 77 and unable to provide a copy of the agreements and terms and conditions its pleadings are irrelevant and unsubstantiated.

 

5. Paragraph 5 is denied for the reasons stated in my point 2.The original creditor could not possibly serve a valid Default Notice for the alleged agreement referred to as the alleged debt is a combined amalgamated amount from a Loan Agreement and Current Account Overdraft.Therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to disclose and evidence the service of a Default Notice pursuant to sec87(1) of the CCA1974 for the fixed loan content and also a Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 for the Current Account Overdraft content.

 

6.Notwithstanding the above, requests for information pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (section 77) and CPR 31.14 were made. A Section 77 request was sent on 27/11/2018, and shows as received 28/11/2018. A CPR 31.14 request was sent 27/11/2018 and shows as received 28/11/2018. The claimant has still not complied to my Section 77 request, but in a previous letter dated 13/12/2017 the claimant acknowledged they were unable to supply a copy of the agreement and acknowledged until they could do so the agreement cannot be enforced. The claimant has yet to comply to my CPR 31.14 request.

 

 

Therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(A) show how the Defendant has entered into agreement/s ; and

(B) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for and provide evidence of credit limits: and

© evidence any nature of breach and show service of a Default Notice and Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA 1974. Notice of Sums in arrears pursuant to the CCA 1974

(D) show how the claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

 

7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

8. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt as alleged it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

[Tbirdo]

Thank you Andy for quick reply,

 

I noticed in your point 2 (That being a credit card agreement and a current card overdraft facility ),

This claim is for the loan and current account, shall I change the wording to “loan agreement “ ?

[Tbirdo]

Also on point 6 HSBC did issue me with a default notice and idem have also sent the same copy of this default notice. This was in reply to the PAP letter.

[AndyOrch]

Thank you Andy for quick reply,

 

I noticed in your point 2 (That being a credit card agreement and a current card overdraft facility ),

This claim is for the loan and current account, shall I change the wording to “loan agreement “ ?

 

Amended above

 

Also on point 6 HSBC did issue me with a default notice and idem have also sent the same copy of this default notice. This was in reply to the PAP letter.

 

Re read my point 6 I didnt state they didn't send one for the loan...but they cant of sent one for the amalgamated amount...an overdraft default can not be included in a section 87(1)...there would have to be two Default Notices...section 87(1) Loan and Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Overdraft

[Tbirdo]

Sorry I meant point 5 , and yes I understand what you mean now with the amalgamated amount, they could not have issued one.

 

Shall I submit the defence or wait till closer to the deadline date Friday 21/12/2018 ?

[AndyOrch]

Wait until early next week

[Tbirdo]

Quick update

In reply to my CCA request idem have once again sent me print outs of the following

 

They have just sent me a print out of

1. Current account terms and conditions (3 pages)

2. Current account and savings account terms and conditions

3. A list of transactions of the payments I was making

 

The same as post 3 of this thread. Once again nothing in connection to the loan.

[Tbirdo]

Good morning.

 

Defence is ready to go

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of the claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5(3) in relation to any particular allegation to which is specific response has not been made.

 

2. Paragraph 1 is noted I have in the past had financial dealings with HSBC.That being a Loan Agreement and a Current Account with overdraft facility,neither of which had a credit limit to the value the claimant purports to be allegedly outstanding.I do not recall the precise details of the agreements but do recall it was on or about 1998.I have therefore sought clarification and requested copies of the agreements from the claimant by way of a section 77 request and a request pursuant to sec 61 B of the CCA1974 for the amalgamated alleged amount.

 

3. Paragraph 2 is noted but denied as I have never been served with a Notice of Assignment pursuant to sec 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

4. Paragraph 3 is noted but given the claimant is and remains in default of a section 77 and unable to provide a copy of the agreements and terms and conditions its pleadings are irrelevant and unsubstantiated.

 

5. Paragraph 5 is denied for the reasons stated in my point 2.The original creditor could not possibly serve a valid Default Notice for the alleged agreement referred to as the alleged debt is a combined amalgamated amount from a Loan Agreement and Current Account Overdraft.Therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to disclose and evidence the service of a Default Notice pursuant to sec87(1) of the CCA1974 for the fixed loan content and also a Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 for the Current Account Overdraft content.

 

6.Notwithstanding the above, requests for information pursuant to the consumer credit Act 1974 (section 77) and CPR 31.14 were made. A Section 77 request was sent on 27/11/2018, and shows as received 28/11/2018. A CPR 31.14 request was sent 27/11/2018 and shows as received 28/11/2018 and 29/11/2018. The claimant has still not complied to my Section 77 request, but in a previous letter dated 13/12/2017 the claimant acknowledged they were unable to supply a copy of the agreement and acknowledged until they could do so the agreement cannot be enforced. The claimant has yet to comply to my CPR 31.14 request.

 

 

Therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(A) show how the Defendant has entered into agreement/s ; and

(B) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for and provide evidence of credit limits: and

© evidence any nature of breach and show service of a Default Notice and Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA 1974. Notice of Sums in arrears pursuant to the CCA 1974

(D) show how the claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

 

7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

8. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt as alleged it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

 

I have added a date for the CPR 31.14 as they were received on different days.

 

Is this ok to submit today (deadline line Friday 21/12/2018) ?

As I am going to be working 13 hour shifts for the next few days and don't want to miss the deadline.

 

Thank you Andy for helping me with my defence and everything you and DX have assisted me with so far

[AndyOrch]

Submit today

[Tbirdo]

Submitted.

 

Thank you Andy

[Tbirdo]

Just a quick update

 

Idem have replied with the following letter

 

sorry I don't know how I have managed to do that

cc loan letter.pdf

Edited December 26, 2018 by dx100uk
merge

[dx100uk]

tough on them then eh...yea old HSBC managed loan debacle..then dumped it back as unauthorised OD with no supporting paperwork into the current account

they've already stated they cant get a CCA for the loan.

and its obv you were never had a granted overdraft of that size

so this is going be interesting how they are going to convince the judge you actually owe anything..

 

shouldnt try issuing speculative claimforms hoping for a non contested default rubberstamped judgement..or the defendant wetting themselves and coughing up.

[Tbirdo]

Thanks for reply Dx.

I will try and upload the letter

 

idem letter 13-12-17.pdf

[Tbirdo]

Good morning.

 

Have received the small claims track form (N180)

I have filled it out and ready to post

 

Yes to mediation

Yes to small track claim

Local county court stated

1 witness myself

 

3 copies

1 for myself

1 to the court

1 to solicitor (minus sig/email/phone)

 

Followed one or your links DX

Thank you

[dx100uk]

Good research..

[Tbirdo]

Hi there, just a quick update

Idem have replied back to my CCA request and once again they have sent me

 

1. Current account terms and conditions

2. Current account and savings account terms and conditions

3. A list of payments that were made

 

nothing in connection to the loan account.

 

documents scanned. I have left out the current and savings account documents as they are a generic print out with 30 pages. The front page is titled "Current and Savings account terms and conditions 1 April 2009"

Idem CCA Return documents.pdf

[AndyOrch]

And the OD agreement clearly states credit limit £1500.00...so all they have to do now is account for the other £7.5K of their claim