Lowell claimform - old O2mobile debt***Claim Discontinued***

[Jase1982]

We received an e-mail from the mediation team on Monday. Forms all filled in including authorisation for me to mediate on her behalf.

 

Is there any advice anyone can give for mediation?

[AndyOrch]

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?433406-Alternative-Dispute-Resolution-(Mediation)

[Jase1982]

So the mediation team have arranged for a telephone consultation this Friday.

 

Does anyone have any advice on what my opening gambit should be? Should I rely on the statute barred defence submitted, or make comment about the debt potentially being made up of fees relating to the lifetime of the contract, and are therefor not enforceable?

 

I'm also thinking I should e-mail Lowells pointing out that they are yet to forward any supporting evidence relating to the claim. Other than letters assigning the debt to them we've still not received anything.

[dx100uk]

if the claimant has still failed to give you sufficient information to make an informed decision

then when the three questions are asked again

id say NO you don't have enough information..mediation will fail.

[Jase1982]

Thanks, do you think I should E-mail Lowells and point this out to them?

[dx100uk]

why?

[Jase1982]

Because I want this charade over with and I want them to call it off.

 

I don't see how they're legally entitled to anything, and I don't know what their claim is based on.

This whole thing is just ridiculous.

[dx100uk]

well emailing them wont make them back off

but a win in court will, we don't lose many of these termination fees till end of contract cases.

 

what you have got to realise is its all a numbers game with these debt buyers and speculative claims.

 

some 700'000 speculative claims are issued every year

85% go uncontested for whatever reason and a default rubberstamped judgement is given - no human checks anything.

 

they don't expect people to defend so never bother to get any paperwork, its just a line in a debt buying spreadsheet portfolio that their PC system spews a few letters out on then issues the claim to the court, all automictically.

[Jase1982]

I just realised that they can't have followed pre action protocol, unless there's a missing document there somewhere. Two of the four documents they sent me were dated 2nd June 2018 and one was from Lowells portfolio informing her that the debt had been assigned to Lowells Solicitors, and the other was from the Solicitors telling her she owes X amount. Then the court form was received 19th July 2018.

[AndyOrch]

Did you receive the following and complete and return ?

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?481827-The-Pre-Action-Protocol-for-Debt-Claims-is-made-by-the-Master-of-the-Rolls-as-Head-of-Civil-Justice.-1st-Oct-2017

 

Andy

[Jase1982]

I have not seen this before, and I can't recall seeing anything giving us any time to pay prior to court proceedings.

Even if this was sent to us, the time frame seems too tight to me.

But even so, they should have included any of this documentation in their response to the CPR 31:14 request?

[Jase1982]

Had the mediation call, which finished about half an hour ago. Only lasted half an hour before we reached a complete impasse.

 

Their opening statement basically consisted of informing me that the amount they are claiming consisted of £45 for airtime credit and £770 was early termination charges, and that O2's terms and conditions say that this is payable. My statement was basically that no they're not because of the information I had received here earlier etc. I said they hadn't followed pre action protocol, and their response was that they sent my GF a letter in March (which if that was the case this had not been disclosed with the CPR 31:14 request).

 

I also made the point that I felt they had ambushed me as they are yet to send me any supporting evidence, and this is the first I had heard of any exact details of the claim. I said they were unable to forward me a copy of the full terms and conditions, despite them now quoting them as evidence of this debt. Their response was that O2's terms and conditions never change and are available on their website - They even said they were happy to wait whilst I looked on their website for the terms and conditions.

 

The best they said they could do was 10% off, whilst I said we were happy to pay for the airtime credit, which was the £45. It then went back and they refused it, I then said the maximum I could go to was £100. Obviously they refused that, and then I said ok I'll take my chances.

 

The mediator was almost trying to get me to accept their offer by saying I'd end up paying more if I lost etc ...

 

Any thoughts for me? Is there any way I can fight back at this stage with something? Or just await the court date?

[AndyOrch]

Let it run its course.

[Jase1982]

Is there anything official you can please point me in the direction of to do with them not being able to charge an early termination fee?

[AndyOrch]

Should the alleged amount claimed include an early termination charge(s) amounting to the entire balance of the remaining contract. OFCOM guidance states that any Early Termination Charge that is made up of the entire balance if the remaining contract is unlikely to be fair as it fails to take into account the fact that the provider no longer has to provide and pay for their service.

[Jase1982]

Is there a link you can send me that states this?

I'm just on the ofcom website now, but I need something official from them.

[AndyOrch]

No...no link its just a well known fact and common sense...you cant legally charge for something that you are no longer supplying and the agreement has ceased.

[Jase1982]

But how do I argue that point if I can't back it up with any official guidelines issued by ofcom?

When I made my statement to the mediator, even they queried where is this said.

Those were the mediators exact words.

So, stuck, I just said that was the advice I was given.

Surely if I'm arguing this point I need to be able to back it up?

[dx100uk]

But neither can they say it is due!!

 

There is no such thing as termination charges consisting of the remaining months of a contract not used because a consumer cancelled early or didnt use the service

Provided from xx date

 

Not your problem to prove you dont owe the money they are take ng you to court they must prove their case

[Jase1982]

Ok I understand all that, but their legal basis is that it forms part of O2's contract and that as such in their terms and conditions it says they can charge XYZ.

 

My defence is now that O2 can't charge that amount because of the Ofcom ruling, but how do I back that up when it comes down to it?

Or when I draft a witness statement can I just reiterate that and the judge will make a ruling?

[dx100uk]

your defence has not changed...

and yes with the WS that's what you do.

 

plenty of mobile WS's here already

 

you should have refused mediation, lowells did not provide all the required paperwork for you to make an informed decision as you had to ask questions about the contract etc.

 

told you what to do in post 79

[Jase1982]

Ok, I'll let it play out but I still would like to see something official from Offcom; I'll have a look later.

I am aware there are lots of threads, I've read most of them; I just couldn't find anything to back up the claim made about the offcom ruling.

 

In fairness, when you made the point on post 79 about mediation, I had already agreed to it.

I agreed because I wanted it to appear as though I had done my bit to resolve it.

i.e. eventually getting the breakdown of the costs, which I now have, and making them an offer to pay for the airtime credit.

[dx100uk]

yes you enter into the spirit of mediation until the actual time it happens

then you say NO. ...lowells did not provide all the required paperwork for you to make an informed decision

you should have seen this numerous time in most of the threads you've read.

 

as for the Ofcom stuff

again its in numerous threads here already.[and the wins on the very point 9 in all our defences]

.its not for you to prove it is so..its for the claimant to prove its not!

stop trying to do their jpb for them..

[Jase1982]

Ok I'll go re-read the threads again over the weekend as I must have got confused with it all.

 

I'm not trying to do their job, I'm just trying to understand the detail I'm using as my defence.

Edited October 12, 2018 by dx100uk
quote

[dx100uk]

no need to keep hitting reply with quote

just type in the msg box.

 

17 unnecessary quotes removed.

makes the thread twice as long to scroll thru..