Parking & Enforcement Agency (PEA) NI Windsreen PCN no BB, Antrim Hospital, NI

[DragonFly1967]

Seasider. Don't stress over which way up the BB was or whether or not you were entitled to use it.

 

Blue badges and parking spaces for BB holders mean absolutely nothing on private land. They could equally insist on you displaying a label from a bottle of Guinness in your windscreen, it would carry just as much weight.

 

Besides which, I'm fairly certain that the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4. Only extends to England & Wales. So there is no such thing as keeper liability in Northern Ireland. As long as PEA don't know who was driving the vehicle, there's not a great deal that they can do as they won't know who to act against.

 

There's no legal obligation to tell them who was driving.

[DragonFly1967]

Ahh yes, there being no keeper liability (even more so under the circumstances) won't stop the begging, increasingly desperate and ultimately threatening letters from the parking company and their pet debt collectors. But, rest assured that they are completely powerless.

 

It would be a very simple matter to bat this away once a Notice to Keeper arrives, though the family will have to prove that the keeper has passed away. It's callous but the parking company will swear that black was blue that you'd be lying to them. But equally, there'd be some mileage in messing with the parking company on this as well. It all depends on how much of a craic the family would be up for.

 

Was the keeper a practical joker? If so, this one could be their last laugh at the parking companies expense

[DragonFly1967]

The IPC? PEA are shown as BPA members. It's a bit odd if they're naming the IPC on the ticket.

 

Can you scan it (hide anything like vehicle registrations, ticket numbers bar & QR codes) and then upload it to the thread as a PDF.-

 

The only way that you're going to keep the next of kin out of the loop is to name yourself as the driver.

 

This would usually carry the risk of removing the protection of POFA, but as that doesn't apply, I don't suppose it makes too much difference.

 

You've got the benefit of knowing that there was a BB displayed. So it's up to PEA to prove that it wasn't, not for you to prove that there was.

 

Re-reading that post, it may not make sense when read along with my earlier posts.

 

I realise that I've already told you that the BB isn't important on private land. It isn't, but it is important to give the PPC enough rope to hang themselves and make them do all the running.

 

Once they attempt to prove whether or not there was a BB on display, and even if they show that there wasn't, this gives you more ammunition to fire back at them.

 

It might also be awkward not to involve the family at all, as you may need some basic details from them for your complaint to the hospital (unless you know them already) which is another front on which to attack the PPC.

[DragonFly1967]

Are you suggesting that to be considered disabled, you must have a blue badge?

 

As for the PPC's terms & conditions, well, they can put whatever they like. Just because they're there, it doesn't make them enforceable. On private land a parking space is just a parking space regardless of what someone has decided to paint on the tarmac or write on a sign.

 

And as the OP has said that a BB was displayed, then the PPC doesn't really have any kind of case unless they can prove that it wasn't. And not just by the use of clever angles when taking the pictures.

[DragonFly1967]

OK, we seem to be talking at cross purposes here. And you seem to be missing the point that I am trying to make.

 

Not true. A private car park owner is entitled to limit parking in particular areas of their car park to specific types of users if they want to. The condition must be properly signposted of course, and frequently it isn't, but there's no law preventing them in principle.

 

Of course they are, no one (as far as I can see) has said that they can't put up any condition that they like. They could say "This car park is for yellow cars with pink spots only" if they wanted to, it's entirely up to them. That doesn't make it enforceable (morally or legally) by any stretch of the imagination.

 

The car park owner (the hospital trust in this case (I would imagine)) will usually have to supply parking for the disabled, but it would probably be an unenforceable contract term for either them or their muppet show PPC to say that any disabled person (driver or passenger) that wants to make use of those spaces must show a blue badge as not all disabled people qualify for a BB (as you well know).

 

I wonder what the actual (hospital or trust) policy is, because I'd put a months wages on it that it won't be the same as the PPC's! I can't imagine a hospital saying "you can't park here if you're not disabled enough to get a blue badge" (even though the councils get away with it!)

 

-

 

No one has suggested a course of action as regards an appeal as of yet, of which, when the time comes, the blue badge will only form a single part.

[DragonFly1967]

Plenty of reading here... http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=blue+badge

 

There probably aren't any court decisions to back it up as most PPC's will run away and hide rather than risk being slapped down by a proper judge for discrimination under the equalities act. That would be an unmitigated disaster for all of them.

 

If you can't fair enough, but I can imagine it perfectly well. It's fact-specific for the hospital in question but it's not obvious to me why, say, someone with Dyslexia should be allowed preferential parking in a hospital car park. They wouldn't get a BB, lots of people with a disability have no mobility problems at all so why does a dyslexic person need to be able to park in a bay close to the exit?

 

Off topic. You say that, but dyslexia is actually quite an interesting point. Can someone be expected to read, understand and abide by the terms and conditions if they are dyslexic. What a test case that would be

[DragonFly1967]

OK Ethel, you obviously just want someone to agree with you and tell you that you're right and that everyone else that gives advice on these forums is wrong.

 

OK, you're right and we're all morons. You win. Run along.

[DragonFly1967]

Oh right. I knew you were a woman did I.... You realise I'm not really a dragon I presume? But you do win. I give up.

[DragonFly1967]

OK, as I said, the only way to avoid involving the next of kin is to name yourself to the PPC as the driver. That *should* (although there are no guarantees with these parasites) avoid any letters being sent that are addressed to the keeper.

 

Obviously as the deceased is your parent, you'll have all of the pertinent details to make a complaint to the hospital. I'd suggest PALS first and if they won't help (there is no 'can't' about it) then the Chief Exec. They'll try to abdicate any responsibility but don't be fobbed off. PEA are acting as agents of the trust and as such the trust are just as responsible and able to fix this. Stand your ground with them and this will start to rattle some cages and will, more often than not, get the charge cancelled.

 

Is the hospital local to you? Would there be any chance of getting some pictures of the signage around the car park and more specifically around the 'disabled' parking spaces where you parked? I realise that this might be difficult for you, so if not, not to worry.

 

If the hospital won't help you then your only option is to appeal to PEA, which of course they'll probably reject, there's no profit in allowing appeals.

 

Their only other option at that point is to take you to court. And honestly, I don't think that they'd stand a cat in hells chance of getting this past a judge who'd agree with them under the circumstances.

[DragonFly1967]

Ahh, you may have another ace up your sleeve there. If you're mainland based it's going to be even more awkward for them. They won't want to go to the extra expense. They're a lot more likely to lose in court if no one from the company appears, so they're already shovelling in a money pit.

 

Oh, and in 2017, these muppets took a grand total of ONE case to court. So they're no ParkingLie

[DragonFly1967]

Yep, as long as you choose to defend any claim made against you, it would be transferred to your local County Court.

 

It'd be an expensive day out for them, especially when they lost

[DragonFly1967]

The best outcome possible (at least where this ticket is concerned) under the circumstances. Well done.