Removing ex from Title Deeds - HELP

[HP Mum]

Helping a friend here:

 

Friend was married and house deeds in joint names.

She left 10 years ago and has been living with s/o else ever since.

 

The mortgage was paid by the ex-husband ever since and he continued to live in the house.

 

The children lived with him and he had sole financial responsibility for them all this time.

(I understand she had mental health issues and was sectioned a couple times,

so not sure if this will impact any future legal decisions....)

 

He wants to remove the ex-wife from the title deeds.

 

He has been asking all this time and she has always refused unless he gives her 50% of the value of the house.

In 10 years the property price has gone up a lot (x2 in 10y/ x7 since purchase).

 

He has a small mortgage and only a few years left to run

- so the value is almost all capital, no loan.

 

He is also of an age / limited income that it would be almost impossible to get a new mortgage once this expires.

I have so far advised he is in the best position with an existing lender to alter their terms, rather than scrape the barrel finding a new lender.

 

He wants to know:

1) does he have to give her 50% due to the Title deeds being split 50/50

2) if he does have to give her 50%:

is it 50% of the 2007 price, when she left the house and kids and moved in with another man?

Or is it 50% of the 2017 price, despite her having contributed nothing in the last 10 years

 

3) Should he add up all the mortgage payments he ever made.

Or just the last 10 years since she left?

Should he add up any/all payments she made (I don't know if any)?

 

I was just wondering if she never made any mortgage payments / or just didn't make any in the last 10 years

- could he work out what her 50% contributions should have been and then deduct them off her share of the property value?

 

Also - considering he lost out on the use of that 50% could he work out compound interest and charge that back to her too?

 

4) If he rents a room in the property

- is he liable to give her 50% of the income?

 

He did this once,

she found out and the lodger had to leave because she said he HAD to give her half and he didn't want to give her 50%.

 

I can't understand how she can have such a hold on what he does and doesn't do in/with a property that she doesn't contribute to, and doesn't live in...

 

Friend would love to remove her name from the deeds.

He would have to alter/increase his mortgage to be able to buy her out.

But he has some ideas on affordability

- such as renting room/ or renovating and creating separate legal annexe or eventually selling but being free of ex wife...

 

Any helpful hints would be most appreciated.

 

I just feel she has unjustly got him in a corner and it is affecting his health.

He just wants to move on w/o her involved in his life/home.

 

This is my seasonal good deed for a friend...

[Haunter]

Make an offer to the ex to buy them out and remove them from the Title Deeds, if the offer is accepted.

 

 

Merry Christmas

 

 

Haunter

[Ethel Street]

They were officially married when they bought the house? Are they now divorced? If so was this dealt with in the divorce?

 

Did the ex-wife contribute:

 

(a) any capital when they bought the house?

(b) pay any of the mortgage before she left?

[HP Mum]

Thanks for the replies

Turns out they were never married - so no divorce settlement.

She never put a penny into the house. Not to buy it originally; not a single mortgage payment.

[HP Mum]

Thanks Haunter - he has tried to deal with her before. But she has always said she wants 50%. He couldn't afford 50% then and ten years later that 50% has doubled and he still can't afford it. That's the issue.

They were common-law partners, she put nothing in - no mortgage or maintenance - and left to live with someone else 10y ago but still wants all the years of capital growth.

 

He is just a friend and this story makes me fuming mad. So I want to help figure out how he can come out smiling.

[Haunter]

Well, once she moved out 10 years ago, that was the end of any contract between them in contemplation of buying a house together (even though you say she never paid a penny).

 

 

So, she may be entitled to some money as at the date of her moving out, whether that would be 50% of the value of the house at that time is a matter for a court to decide.

 

 

However, she would not be entitled to 50% of the house at today's value, because for the last 10 years she has not contributed towards the mortgage, maintenance of the house and all the bills that come with it, and to award her with 50% would amount to unjust enrichment.

 

 

Maybe your friend can put these facts to her and make an offer based on 10 years ago?

 

 

Merry Christmas

 

 

Haunter

[Guest]

hpmum

you said in your first post

the Title deeds being split 50/50

could it be a formal joint tenancy in common ownership specifying each share (rather than an outright joint ownership).

[mariner51]

OP states protagonists were marriied at time of purchase, but later states they were NEVER married, but as co-signatories they had has an enforceable Agreement until it can be legally be voided.

[BazzaS]

hpmum

you said in your first postcould it be a formal joint tenancy in common ownership specifying each share (rather than an outright joint ownership).

 

The “beneficial” interest (& thus “how much needs to be paid”) might be a specified share.

The “legal” interest (& thus “the names on the legal title” / “title deeds” / Land Registry entry) is always held as a joint tenancy, and won’t state any specific proportion for the “legal title”.

 

The details of a change to tenancy in common for the beneficial interest (and, perhaps details of the share) can be held on the Land Registry, but the legal interest is always as a joint tenancy [with beneficial interests being shown as restriction(s)]

https://www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership/change-from-joint-tenants-to-tenants-in-common

[HP Mum]

Thanks BazzaS

I had a quick look at the gov webpage.

From what I can gather from friend - he just put her name on the title deeds with no specific proportion (no noted % for either).

 

So trying to understand this from the posts above:

- She has no right to the increase in value from date she moved out (apx 10y ago) - as that would be 'unjust enrichment' - This is very good news for him.

- friend can fill in the form on the gov site (form SEV) - to alter ownership from 'joint tenants' to 'tenants in common' - without his ex partner even co-operating!

 

So just so I understand better and can explain to friend - what is the difference between joint tenants and tenants in common?

[HP Mum]

Also - is this right:

- Friend fills in Form SEV and submits to Land Registry

- does he need a solicitor / conveyancer to serve Notice on his ex?? Or can he serve Notice himself? is there a specific form to use to serve Notice on her?

[BazzaS]

Joint tenants, the title passes by survivorship, and can't be willed while there is a living joint tenant. So, there is a "cake", and the cake is undivided. if Person A and person B own the cake, it isn't "50/50" until it gets divided, and if one of them dies, the other has title 100% (even if they are then holding some on trust for a 3rd party). The 'legal' title is always held by joint tenancy, and can't be held as tenancy in common (which the beneficial interest can).

Tenancy in common: the 'cake' has been divided, and is held in shared proportions.

 

So, if Persons A and B hold the legal title as joint tenants, and the beneficial interest as A:60%, B:40%, and A dies, willing their beneficial interest to C, the situation becomes:

B holds 100% of the legal title (by survivorship). B still holds 40% of the beneficial interest, and C holds 60%, both as tenants in common. B holds the legal title on behalf of both themselves, and on trust for C.

[BazzaS]

- friend can fill in the form on the gov site (form SEV) - to alter ownership from 'joint tenants' to 'tenants in common' - without his ex partner even co-operating!

 

Form SEV would be for when there is agreement, or notice has been served (and you have to complete the details of the agreement or notice).

Where it isn't by consent, or is without notice, form RX1 is used.

 

Given the complexities possible if they get it wrong, they might be wise to get it done by (or at least get advice from) a licensed conveyancer!

[HP Mum]

Form SEV - fill in when there is an agreement with ex; or no agreement but Notice has been served

Form RX1 - fill in when no agreement and no Notice served on ex

 

Is this correct?

She wont even tell him where she lives. But the thinks he can probably find the address to serve notice.

What is the best route to take? RX1 or SEV?

[HP Mum]

Also - fees: I have done a quick check. Am I correct that there are no fees to pay for either form?

[Ethel Street]

 

So just so I understand better and can explain to friend - what is the difference between joint tenants and tenants in common?

 

The Which explanation might be helpful too

 

https://www.which.co.uk/money/mortgages-and-property/first-time-buyers/guides/buying-a-home/tenants-in-common-vs-joint-tenancy

[HP Mum]

Thank you Ethel Street

[HP Mum]

Thank you Bazza5

I will ask him what the set up was. That will make the next step easier.

[HP Mum]

update:

they are 'joint tenants'.

And both names are registered on the bank mortgage.

So friend wants to follow the steps to remove ex from the title deeds and to remove ex from mortgage.

I am still confused by the whole process.

 

 

Form SEV is the application to enter Form A restriction on severance of joint tenancy by agreement or notice.

The Gov website says "You can make this change without the other owners’ agreement" - which is what is confusing me.

What exactly does this restriction do/ mean?

Does SEV remove the ex name from the title?

 

 

And same for RX1 - what exactly does filling in this form do?

 

 

In essence friend wants to take control of the property just in his name. Does friend fill in AP1 form to swap title to be just in his name? Or cant he do that?

 

 

I also read that the bank has to agree to remove ex name from mortgage and very confusingly that the Form A restriction needs to be removed:

"Where a property is owned by two or more people as tenants in common and there is a transfer of equity which leaves one remaining owner, and no money is paid by the remaining owner to the outgoing owners, the form A restriction (which prevents a transfer by a sole proprietor from being registered) will need to be removed. This can be done by the remaining owner signing a “Statutory Declaration as to Equitable Title”. This is a declaration to confirm that he is solely entitled to the equity in the property. If this is not done now it can be done when the property is sold on."

 

 

So one process seems to need the form A and the other seems to need to remove it. Confused!!

[Guest]

you mention 'joint tenants' but then refer to in common

have you checked the registry title, and bazzas link for eg

https://www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership/check-your-ownership-details

anyway, if there is a registered mortgage interest, they would need to agree afaik (not object) re any change (maybe unlikely imo).

[HP Mum]

Friend recently advised 'joint tenants'.

 

Just trying to work out best route to remove ex from property title.

 

An earlier suggestion was to transfer title from joint tenants to tenants-in-common. But that seems to only alter title so that friend can choose to whom he leaves his share of property. It doesn't resolve the issue that he wants to remove her name from title - to renovate it/ to rent it out / or maybe sell it. Ex left 10y ago and never financially contributed - so he wants to move on with his life

[king12345]

it's best to approach a solicitor and ask for professional advice in my opinion.

 

The ex could claim that she kept her name on the deeds in view of price growth so she basically made an investment.

 

It is difficult to prove that she didn't contribute to the house while they were together.

Even if she was unemployed, staying at home and keeping the house clean is considered a contribution.

Easier to prove that since she left she didn't contribute, but she's still got an invested interest in the property, so having not sorted this out at the time of separation could mean that she's due a capital profit.

Also there's the mortgage matter to deal with.

 

Mortgage lenders are usually reluctant to delete a name from the account because there's more risk for them should they default, so until her name is on the deeds, i doubt they'll let your friend take over.

I think she's viewing this as a long term treasure in case your friend dies before her or he finds himself forced to sell.

 

Morally wrong, but perfectly legal, that's why it is wise to not put names of non contributing individuals on the deeds.

 

My advice is to seek professional help and your friend will be probably told to try and buy her out.

Edited February 4, 2018 by honeybee13
Paras

[Guest]

Friend recently advised 'joint tenants'.

 

Just trying to work out best route to remove ex from property title.

 

.....

ah ok, i see back yr previous post

they are 'joint tenants'.

And both names are registered on the bank mortgage.

So friend wants to follow the steps to remove ex from the title deeds and to remove ex from mortgage

[Guest]

ps

on the title, the mortgage co will be a registered proprietor under the titles' charges and have a restriction requiring their consent re any disposition?

[HP Mum]

Hi King - I think (hope) we've already established she can not benefit from 'unjust enrichment' since moving out. So any amount due would be from start to 10years ago.

In terms of housewife at home etc - friend worked, gave ex money for the kids/food etc, and he paid the mortgage and all maintenance - she never put a penny in. She moved out and had mental health issues, to the point of being sectioned. Friend then did everything: worked, paid mortgage and raised the kids.

I am thinking the first best step would be for him to change the type or ownership - from joint tenants to tenants in common. This safeguards his share of ownership.

Does he then have the ability to outline what size the share was/is? Or is it automatically 50/50?

 

Secondly, there is the issue of both names being on the mortgage. I now understand that it is hard to remove ex name from the title deeds whilst there is a loan. There is not much left on the mortgage - maybe 2y worth of payments. Might it be within his interest to redeem the mortgage?? if he can. Borrow the money from somewhere else and repay the loan that has both their names on. I am thinking that may resolve that issue. Then it is just a Land Registry issue to remove ex name.

 

I have suggested friend works out exactly his expenditure from purchase to date she moved out - ie deposit paid, all mortgage payments and maintenance/refurb costs. And I have suggested he researches the sale prices of similar properties in his neighbourhood 10y ago. That should give him an apx value of the property 10y ago, less all his expenses. I assume he will have to pay ex something. But with research on values 10y ago and a long list of money and time (which equals money) he invested in the property, surely he would be able to come up with a figure to give ex - albeit lower than she expects??

 

The sort of figures talking about are: purchase at 75k / apx value 10y ago at 325k. Deposit was apx 8k; 10y of mortgage payments apx 10k/pa (he paid all); plus renovation costs. Friend has continued to pay a further 10y of mortgage payments and property maintenance expenses. (apx 20y total ownership)

What would be a normal acceptable figure to offer ex?? Based on all the above.....