Bankruptcy and bank charges

[bode]

I'm an un-discharged bankrupt and I'm about to start the process of reclaiming charges placed on my accounts.

 

I realise that my debts have been wiped clear and I should just leave it at that, but for years these illegal charges consumed my wages. I did ask politely last year for my bank to reconsider the charges but they passed the blame onto someone else.

 

I partly blame these charges for my bankruptcy and the hell I went through for years leading up to it, so now I begin the enquiry to see how these charges destroyed me financially.

 

Any bankrupts considered recovering these charges?

[Guest Alison82]

I partly blame these charges for my bankruptcy and the hell I went through for years leading up to it, so now I begin the enquiry to see how these charges destroyed me financially.

 

There must be something that can be done about this!

 

Good Luck

[Neo]

I think this could be dodgy ground and if you are not discharged yet, I would, if you can, seriously wait until you become discharged before proceeding.

 

If you successfully get money back then it may go straight to the official receivers.

 

You must remember that any accounts that you held at the time of the bankruptcy, will only be frozen and not written off fully until the end of your bankruptcy, so this could have serious implications on how/how gets the monies paid.

 

When does your bankruptcy finish and when did your charges start?

Also is it a 2 year or 3 year insolvency?

Also was it voluntary bankruptcy or did a specific bank take initiate this?

[mcuth]

I'm an un-discharged bankrupt and I'm about to start the process of reclaiming charges placed on my accounts.

I could be wrong, but I think if you're undischarged, any money coming into your "estate" before discharge can be given to your creditors. You're only actually freed from your debts on discharge, so it might be best to wait until that happens.

 

{edit - oh, I see Neo replied while I was still typing )

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[Seminole]

I'm an un-discharged bankrupt and I'm about to start the process of reclaiming charges placed on my accounts.

 

I realise that my debts have been wiped clear and I should just leave it at that, but for years these illegal charges consumed my wages. I did ask politely last year for my bank to reconsider the charges but they passed the blame onto someone else.

 

I partly blame these charges for my bankruptcy and the hell I went through for years leading up to it, so now I begin the enquiry to see how these charges destroyed me financially.

 

Any bankrupts considered recovering these charges?

 

I think the advice already given here is sound.

 

However, a couple of questions. Did a creditor make you bankrupt or did you petition yourself? Secondly, if a creditor did this, was it a bank and were your total debts EXCLUDING the bank charges much more than £750?

 

I would love to identify someone who was made bankrupt by their bank or credit card company based on an account that was largely comprised of unlawful charges and whose other non-charges debts were quite small. I think that any bank that did that could be hung, drawn and quartered and I suspect that AmeX may have done it to someone out there.

[bode]

I have just less than a year until I'm discharged but I've got to look into this properly. Some people are discharged after 6 months if the case is straightforward.

 

There is something about a 3 year period where your income is looked into, but don't quote me on that.

 

I declared myself bankrupt, it's very unlikely that a bank/cc will do you the favour.

 

I am aware that the Official Receiver will steal any excess income but I can get away with extra money on a technicality! My job finishes at the end of term so I'll have zero income.

 

I would prefer to do this after I'm discharged, so I'm doing my research before I go ahead with everything.

 

And wouldn't it be sweet if my unlawful charges exceeded my actual debt. I would lose half of my wages on bank charges because my employer never paid me on time. This left me with nothing to pay the credit cards so they added more charges. Failing another direct debit because there's nothing left in my account and the cc minimum payment gets larger.

 

Barclaycard demanded £700 one month when I missed payments. In the end I stopped paying them altogether and went BR. The cc companies still send me statements adding £100 in charges each month.

 

I would have no problems sueing them.

 

Anyone in serious debt or going through financial hell should go here:

http://www.debtquestions.co.uk/

 

and go to the forum.

[Seminole]

CC companies can't try to collect debts that were included in your bankruptcy. I would send one months statements to your OR and they will rap knuckles.

[bode]

CC companies can't try to collect debts that were included in your bankruptcy. I would send one months statements to your OR and they will rap knuckles.

 

Yes I know but I'm just highlighting the level of charges they are prepared to add. Alliance and Leicester/ MBNA would be the worst of the lot.

 

It takes quite a while for the cc companies to find out about yor BR. I read their court action letters with amusement now. Fow now I am going to collect the statements and take it from there.

[bode]

Also is it a 2 year or 3 year insolvency?

 

Everybody is one year now. Northern Ireland was supposed to follow English law on the 28th March 2006, but they are very slow with press releases.

[myvesta-sean]

Hi Seminole, yes it wouldn't surprise me if AMEX had instigated a creditors petition within this context as they are certainly one of the more aggressive creditors we find. Of the other major credit card providers they tend to excersise much more caution when reviewing the option of the creditors petition as they simply do not want the adverse publicity that this could create.

[bode]

Sorry to bring this old thread up again. But I have a question relating to bank charges and bankruptcy.

 

Can anyone with a legal background tell me is it possible to reclaim 6 years of charges after bankruptcy?

 

These charges would have not been included in the br. I am wondering do I have a leg to stand on when it gets to the small claims court. Better to know now!

[JimLFixit]

On the still arriving bills, you should just pen a note to the companies involved, enclosing a copy of your bankruptcy order. If they call, just say you're now bankrupt and quote the case number (this is structured as " County Court, xx of 2007" or similar).

 

When discharged, ask the OR to confirm your discharge - they will normally write this letter for free, which is normally the currency you need to again write to everyone and tell them you are now discharged. Saves spending £60 to buy a discharge certificate from the local court.

 

The one thing I would do differently now, based on my own experience, is to ask them at that point to mark the account as satisfied with an outstanding balance of zero (almost everyone just leaves all the previous default status's and outstanding balances in place, which alongside the notices in the public records part of your credit file, makes it look like everything is still outstanding in full, still in default - and you're very obviously bankrupt as well!). None of the CRAs, lenders or any of the DCAs appear to correct these "gross exagerations" of fact until you ask them specifically to do so.

 

Most just comply with the request to mark the account as satisfied on the date of discharge and with a zero balance at that point. At this point, i've only had to revert to section 14 DPA notices to enforce this change in 4 cases, and of those, only Lloyds TSB are doing a merry dance - marking the account as "partially settled" as of date 11 months after discharge with the full balance outstanding (being their "position regarding bakruptcies once they have been satisfied"), so that one will go to court at the end of the month when their 21 days are up.

 

As to your planned action, i'm morally not with you on this. In my case, I think the financial institutions consumption of payment protection insurance and charges down my history probably more than exceeded the amount written off in my bankruptcy, but that is now written off. If you were to end up going legal and try to explain it to a judge, I think you'd have a tough time justifying your stance. But hey, that's your call, not mine.

[Guest Zooman]

I've said here a few times I do not believe that a bankrupt has any claim on funds pre-bankruptcy more so when the creditor has lodged a debt in bankruptcy.

 

My reasons are many and I will try to outline them now.

 

First and most importantly we must consider the courts position to bankrupts this can most easily be summed up by the courts main get out clause when they do anything involving bankrupts.....

 

“Every bankruptcy is under the general control of the court and, subject to the provisions in this Group of Parts, the court has full power to decide all questions of priorities and all other questions, whether of law or fact, arising in any bankruptcy.”

 

1. I believe that to do it correctly you would have to challenge the proof of debt lodged in bankruptcy (it should be noted that you have £0 cost protection for this take of action regardless of value) by the banks and the court would have to decide the matter. This could have one of 5 outcomes, (i) the application is dismissed by the courts, (ii) you win, (iii) you lose, (iv) the bank withdraw their poof of debt, (v) or the bank amend the proof of debt to take into account the sum challenged (note I do not say claimed as it is not a claim) by yourself.

 

What worries me here is that we are not talking about agency solicitors attending court but a full legal team comprising Solicitor and Barrister and then the office costs which if you lost on i or ii would be payable by yourself in full forthwith. I would expect to see them try to have the application dismissed and I honestly believe even to get past this point you would need a legal team who would require you to pay in full beforehand (a guess at a figure would be circa £7k). If you got past this point at any time the lawyer could simple stand up and walk to the court office in the same building and withdraw or amend the proof of debt. Then it would simple be down to costs.

 

2. If you should try to sue the bank in county court, I would expect the bank to inform the court that you where adjudged bankrupt on such and such day and they have lodged a proof of debt in the estate. I have to be honest here I do not know how the court would deal with this but I would not expect a good outcome it would all depend on the Judge on the day but to not be surprised if you here this is an insolvency matter that should be dealt with by an application to examine the defendants proof of debt, dismissed and costs. Even if the court was willing to hear the case (district judges can not hear applications to examine the proof of debts) it would be very unsafe, and lastly if the bank got their thinking head on and wanted to avoid court for the same old reasons they could simple do iv or v from above and inform the court.

 

I wanted to say a few things more but I have work to do, I’ll try to get back today and finish it but to sum up unless the amount is greater then what is lodged in the banks proof of debt regardless of age I would not expect to see any money in fact legally I do not see how you can. Plus I hear everyone say wait to you are discharged I will take this opportunity to say this does not affect the proofs of debts lodged which always remain in place unless paid in full.

[Guest Zooman]

Just noticed you are in Northern Ireland.

 

In Northern Ireland bankruptcy is under the control of the High Court. A judicial officer known as the Bankruptcy Master normally deals with bankruptcy matters. A High Court Judge deals with serious matters. Most decisions of the Court may be appealed to a higher court. They use the same act as England and Wales but with a few changes I would strongly recommend that you get legal advice before stating any claims as anything I say and I expect most others apply only to England and Wales and not Scotland or NI.

[Guest Zooman]

just came to finish what I had started what a waste of time, just seen the post date, pmsl.

[bode]

No Zooman, the original post was old, but I was hoping for a qualified reply which recent posters gave. So a very worthwhile contribution!

 

It's tough one. Spending £10 on bank statements for each creditor and going down a very thorough legal minefield doesn't sound too appealing.

 

I did a very quick estimate on my BR amount and say £30 for each charge..comes to 666 charges over the last 6 years. 9 each month.

 

Bank charges may well have exceeded my bankruptcy amount.

[Guest Zooman]

now that really is leading to a minefield it is called "annulment", what ever you do, do not take advice of anyone online about annulment and seek legal advice from a lawyers firm that has past experience in insolvency.

 

No one and I mean no-one on this forum is qualified to help you and in any event those who may know about annulments would ever give annulment advice over the internet as it is so personal.

[bode]

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