NatWest/Incasso claimform - business OD + Business Loan

[supasta1]

Incasso/Cobbetts are the same company.... Cobbetts are the more aggressive debt chasing side

[supasta1]

Cobbetts usually take over if they are about to issue proceedings

[Orchid47]

Do I need to send a CPR Part 18 request for a credit card?

[Orchid47]

Please can someone advise me.

 

My partner has received another County Court Claim Form for Credit Cards this time.

 

We have acknowledged service and am now about to send a CPR 31:14 and want to know if we need to send a CPR Part 18 as well?

 

We did actually request an SAR for these credit cards over 40 days ago and they have not sent anything back.

 

The deadline for AOS was yesterday, so need to know about the CPR part 18 ASAP PLEASE

[AndyOrch]

What is the CPR18 request in regards to Orchid?

 

Andy

[Orchid47]

Hi Andy, the CPR18 request is in relation to two private accounts, one a personal loan, the other a personal bank account overdraft

[AndyOrch]

Yes but what information would you be requesting vis a CPR 18.1? Will CPR31.14 not suffice for document disclosure? CPR 18.1 is for information only not disclosure.

 

Andy

[Orchid47]

Bit confused Andy, but I've raised a CPR31.14 for the accounts, then I thought I needed to raise a CPR18 as I've no paper work outlining the personal loan or overdraft, am I on the wrong track, or will the CPR31.14 be sufficient?

[AndyOrch]

Orchid is this the same matter IE you have both now recieved a summons for the same debts?

 

" Please can someone advise me.

My partner has received another county court Claim Form for Credit Cards this time. We have acknowledged service and am now about to send a CPR 31:14 and want to know if we need to send a CPR Part 18 as well?

We did actually request an SAR for these credit cards over 40 days ago and they have not sent anything back.

The deadline for AOS was yesterday, so need to know about the CPR part 18 ASAP PLEASE "

 

 

Andy

[Orchid47]

No, unfortunately, the previous ones were to do with my business debts, they've now issued a claim for my personal debts, which were also with Nat West.

[AndyOrch]

Ok well this is going to get complicated we may need to split your thread

 

The Defence you submitted which I drafted was for your business loan and O/D?

 

How many summons have you now between you and OH?

 

Andy

[Orchid47]

I've got two summons, one's for business, and one for personal, sorry.

 

Re- Business, which you helped me with, I sent of the CPR31.14, and the CPR18, to Nat West, I filed the AOS and the defence.

I recieived an acknowledgement of defence from the Court in September, and only a few copies of bank statements.

Definately NOT the information that I requested they provide me with.

 

I've now received a separate claim from the Court for my personal loan and overdraft, which they have lumped together on the one claim as two amounts.

I've filed the AOS yesterday, and was now asking your advice on what else to request.

I've prepared a letter for a CPR31.14 request, and am wondering if I need a CPR18.

[AndyOrch]

Right ok Im with you now..Orchid you need to start a new thread for the personal Loan and O/D.Brief synopsis and type out the particulars verbatim (less any identifiable data) and I will join you in that thread.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Orchid47]

I've received a claim from the Court for my personal loan and overdraft, which they have lumped together on the one claim as two amounts.

I've filed the AOS yesterday, and was now need advice on what else to request.

I've prepared a letter for a CPR31.14 request, and am wondering if I need a CPR18.

 

I have no paperwork for my personal loan or overdraft.

 

I have previously requested an SAR and 40 days have lapsed, and have not received anything as yet.

 

Particulars of Claim:

 

The Claimant's claim relates to outstanding bank accounts maintained by the Defendant

with the Claimant as follows:

 

SortCode/Account no Net Amount

xxxxx / yyyyy £zzzzz

pppp / rrrr £ssss

 

The Claimant is the holder of a licence under the

Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant has made

demand/issued default notice in respect of the

outstanding accounts. The defendant has failed to repay

and/or the default notice has not been complied with.

The total amount outstanding set out above includes accrued

interest at the relelvant agreement rate (contractural) from the

date of demand/termination date to the date of issue.

And the Claimant claims

1. £zzzz + £ssss

2. Costs

3.Interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 until judgment.

[Bandit127]

Who issued the claim and (roughly) what is the total claimed?

 

Have you previously issued a CCA request?

 

What is showing on your credit file for these? (Mine is showing a loan and overdraft as separate).

 

Last thought is they have stated a "bank account". Not a loan or overdraft - could be a schoolboy error there.

 

P.S. I have asked the site team to move this to the legal issues forum where you should get better advice.

[ims21]

Thread moved to Legal forum in view of the issue of court papers.

[Orchid47]

Thanks for helping,

the claimant is NatWest Bank

Credit file shows the items separately, loan and overdraft.

I have not requested a CCA for the Overdraft or the Loan. Should I do this as well?

[Bandit127]

Not an expert, but the usual advice is to do that in your CPR 31.14 request.

 

However, they claim for a "bank account" which is not subject to the CCA 1974 so I am stumped. As a bank account, I don't think you can ask for agreements under CPR31.14. You could ask how the sums are comprised and whether those sums are subject to agreements under the CCA 1974 in your CPR 18 questions I guess.

 

Conjecture on my part, but I hope the experts see this claim as not sufficiently particularised. We will see (hopefully) tomorrow.

[robcag]

 

However, they claim for a "bank account" which is not subject to the CCA 1974 so I am stumped.

 

 

Overdrafts are subject to the CCA 1974. They are exempt from Part V of the CCA 1974 - signing of agreements - BUT only if the creditor can show that it has complied with the conditions set out in the determination made by the Director of Fair Trading, effective 1st February 1990.

 

One of the conditions is that the creditor should have issued to the debtor so called 'Facility Letters' setting out the terms of the overdraft. So whilst you're unlikely to get anywhere making a ss 77-79 CCA request, what you can do is SAR them and specify that you want copies of any and all 'Facility Letters'.

 

See this thread for an idea of what I'm referring to; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?31515

 

And to show that you can win an overdraft claim here is a thread; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?241052-Irwin-Mitchell-NastyWest-overdraft-claim-***-Won-With-Costs***

 

I think my Amended Defence is at post #44 of that thread.

 

Other CAGgers have also been successful.

 

Rob

[robcag]

PS

 

As you've received a court claim, you should include a request for the 'Facility Letters' as part of your CPR 31.14 and/or CPR 18 request. You should also ask for a complete copy of the 'Diary Event History' which would show you if/when said letters were issued.

 

Rob

Edited October 24, 2012 by robcag

[robcag]

PPS

 

The dates that the loan and overdraft commenced will also be relevant. The agreement cut-off date for a Defence using s127(3) is April 6 2007.

 

Rob

[AndyOrch]

Hi Orchid subbing to your thread as promised.

 

With regards to Robs post #8 here is the relative legislation.:-

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/127.

 

If you could confirm the dates of the P/L .

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Orchid47]

Hi Orchid subbing to your thread as promised.

 

With regards to Robs post #8 here is the relative legislation.:-

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/127.

 

If you could confirm the dates of the P/L .

 

 

Please can I check what you mean by P/L

 

Can I also clarify that I need to send a 31.14 for both the overdraft and the personal loan.

 

Should also send another SAR, as the original sent on the 18th June has not been complied with, and I haven't received any documents to date?

[AndyOrch]

Please can I check what you mean by P/L ...Personal Loan

 

Can I also clarify that I need to send a 31.14 for both the overdraft and the personal loan. Yes but it needs to be altered to reflect the O/D

 

Should also send another SAR, as the original sent on the 18th June has not been complied with, and I haven't received any documents to date?

No don't bother you can use that as leverage in your defence that they are in default of The DPA request.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Orchid47]

PS

 

As you've received a court claim, you should include a request for the 'Facility Letters' as part of your CPR 31.14 and/or CPR 18 request. You should also ask for a complete copy of the 'Diary Event History' which would show you if/when said letters were issued.

 

Rob

 

Can you confirm that I can ask for 'Facility Letters' and 'Diary of Events' in the 31.14, even if they are not mentioned in the PoC?But I can send a CPR 18 and ask for 'Facility Letters' and 'Diary of Events' ?