Bailiffs to call at my parents "care of" address?

[Starbug]

Surely it would make sense to contact the HCEO and let them know that you don't live there and that you're not in a position to pay, have no assets and are applying for a DRO due to your financial position. This could be done by email and they would likely report this to the client asking for further instructions. You could even copy your old landlord in.

 

At least this may stop them re-attending your parents address to attempt to remove goods. The last thing you want is your Dad getting woken up at 6am with an HCEO at the door.

 

In terms of fees, they've visited because you failed to respond to the Notice of Enforcement. They have a duty to do this.

 

If you ignore the first visit at Enforcement Stage 1 it will generally escalate to Enforcement Stage 2. This will likely include a further visit, various tracing and checks and potentially a telephone collection attempt.

 

Despite what some websites state, it is always better to enter into dialogue with enforcement agents, even if it is by a newly created email.

 

I'm not sure what I stand to gain from calling them? My dad doesn't mind telling them I don't live there... apart from him getting a call what else would calling them change?

[HCEOs]

If you're not fussed about your Dads car being clamped at 6am and him having to prove it's his and not yours then not much really.

[Peterbard]

HCEOs do not have to get a new NOE if the debtor has recently changed addresses anyway, under the new rues he can enforce wherever the debtor "usually resides", so yes they can clamp at your new address.

 

You can c;aim you did not receive a NOE if you like, I am sure they would look into it for you..

[Starbug]

If you're not fussed about your Dads car being clamped at 6am and him having to prove it's his and not yours then not much really.

Why would they touch his car? It's parked on the road and registered in his name. Why would they have any reason to even look at it?

 

Plus it's an old banger that he uses for work. He's a mechanic, has his tools in it. It's not worth more than a few hundred, so I doubt they can touch it. If he tells them that I don't live there, then isn't it harassment if they clamp his vehicle? They're pursuing him for my debt.

 

And are you saying that if I call the Sheriff's, they'll take my word for it? I thought that HCEOs were legally obliged to pursue a debt... I didn't think that anything I said would make a difference as they just want paying.

[Starbug]

HCEOs do not have to get a new NOE if the debtor has recently changed addresses anyway, under the new rues he can enforce wherever the debtor "usually resides", so yes they can clamp at your new address.

 

You can c;aim you did not receive a NOE if you like, I am sure they would look into it for you..

 

It's not a recent change, I've been here since last year and have never resided at my dad's. The only reason they have his address is because I used it as a care of address for post while I was between homes.

[unclebulgaria67]

Why would they touch his car? It's parked on the road and registered in his name. Why would they have any reason to even look at it?

 

Plus it's an old banger that he uses for work. He's a mechanic, has his tools in it. It's not worth more than a few hundred, so I doubt they can touch it. If he tells them that I don't live there, then isn't it harassment if they clamp his vehicle? They're pursuing him for my debt.

 

And are you saying that if I call the Sheriff's, they'll take my word for it? I thought that HCEOs were legally obliged to pursue a debt... I didn't think that anything I said would make a difference as they just want paying.

 

They will touch your Dads car to gain anyone resident at the adresses attention. If he leaves his door open they might even walk into his house. An argument would then take place and they would pressure him into getting you on the phone. They might not leave very quickly without getting some form of payment.

 

People replying on this thread are not just commenting without thinking. They are suggesting things they would do in the same situation you are in. They would phone the Sheriffs office to explain the situation and i would try to get the DRO company to engage with the Sheriffs office to confirm the DRO is in process and will include the debt they are trying to enfirce.

[Peterbard]

It's not a recent change, I've been here since last year and have never resided at my dad's. The only reason they have his address is because I used it as a care of address for post while I was between homes.

 

You mentioned the spare room earlier ? In any case the postal address was a care of address in your own words.

So any letters sent would have gone to you.

It is not the same as someone who was unaware of the action because they had moved.

You would have received the notice, everything you have said proves this. You received the statutory notice.

 

The notice only has to be sent to one of the places you reside, you may contend that you were not living at your dads at any point in the spare room you mentioned or that you did not receive the mail from the "care of" address.

Upon examination i think that any representation using these argument would most probably fail.

[Starbug]

You mentioned the spare room earlier ? In any case the postal address was a care of address in your own words.

So any letters sent would have gone to you.

It is not the same as someone who was unaware of the action because they had moved.

You would have received the notice, everything you have said proves this. You received the statutory notice.

 

The notice only has to be sent to one of the places you reside, you may contend that you were not living at your dads at any point in the spare room you mentioned or that you did not receive the mail from the "care of" address.

Upon examination i think that any representation using these argument would most probably fail.

Sorry but I get the impression that you don't believe me? The debt is for a place I was renting where I had a dispute with the landlord and was evicted. After that I was in temporary accommodation so I used my dad's address for post as the place I was staying at wasn't suitable.

 

I got this notice, sure. That's because there was big writing on it saying "important, do not ignore", so he called me as it looked important. But usually my post goes into a big pile and I collect it from my dad every few months.

 

It is not a residence and never has been, I'm not sure why anyone would suggest it was? I have no reason to lie to you as this is anonymous, I'm just trying to find out exactly where I stand. It even says on the Sheriff's site that they need a new NOE for a new address, and I thought this was the law?

 

EDIT: Also, as I haven't acknowledged the NOE, they don't know I've got it yet. I was worried that if I contact them, they would be aware that I have received it?

[Peterbard]

If you want to know where you stand, why not give them a ring and find out ?

 

It is the purpose of the notice to make you aware of the action. It seems to have accomplished that.

 

That way you will not have to worry about them anymore.

[Bailiff Advice]

 

People replying on this thread are not just commenting without thinking. They are suggesting things they would do in the same situation you are in. They would phone the Sheriffs office to explain the situation and i would try to get the DRO company to engage with the Sheriffs office to confirm the DRO is in process and will include the debt they are trying to enfirce.

 

Good answer UB. In my post number 27, I even offered to approach the moderators with contact details of an individual at the Sheriffs Office who I am confident would assist the OP.

[Coughdrop]

Good answer UB. In my post number 27, I even offered to approach the moderators with contact details of an individual at the Sheriffs Office who I am confident would assist the OP.

 

Assist the OP in what way?

[Starbug]

Good answer UB. In my post number 27, I even offered to approach the moderators with contact details of an individual at the Sheriffs Office who I am confident would assist the OP.

I replied to all of your posts with further questions.

[unclebulgaria67]

I replied to all of your posts with further questions.

 

We are all human and programmed to ask questions when we are anxious about doing what has been advised.

 

It is now up to you to follow advice or not and see what happens.

[Starbug]

We are all human and programmed to ask questions when we are anxious about doing what has been advised.

 

It is now up to you to follow advice or not and see what happens.

Of course I'm nervous. I don't want my dad to have any hassle because of my debt. I also don't want to lose my livelihood. Being nervous is normal in this situation. And no offence to anyone who has given advice, but I don't know any of you or your experience, so ask a lot of questions to get a bigger picture. I like to be thorough, especially when the advice contradicts what I've read elsewhere(I.E needing a new NOE for a new address or not).

[unclebulgaria67]

Of course I'm nervous. I don't want my dad to have any hassle because of my debt. I also don't want to lose my livelihood. Being nervous is normal in this situation. And no offence to anyone who has given advice, but I don't know any of you or your experience, so ask a lot of questions to get a bigger picture. I like to be thorough, especially when the advice contradicts what I've read elsewhere(I.E needing a new NOE for a new address or not).

 

Bailiff Advice has been giving advice for a long time to consumers dealing with enforcement companies. She also keeps informed about what is happening in the enforcement industry, by attending various meetings and keeping up to date with court cases and what goverment are up to.

 

As far as i know, enforcement companies only need to issue one NOE to the address they have for the debtor as their last residence. An HCEO can go looking for your goods wherever you have them, but they can't force entry to a private residential address. It might be the case that some enforcement companies believe it is good practice to send a further NOE where they have found the debtor lives at another address. I don't believe there is any legislation or industry rules that require an HCEO to issue another NOE to another address found for a debtor. Anyone know any different can reply with the details to correct me.

 

If the HCEO finds you at another address and the car in your name would go a good way towards the debt owed, then yes it could be seized. But if the value is not enough to cover all of the various fees in taking it and selling it, leaving money for creditors, then they can't touch it. If you need it to continue to earn money, then it would be counter production, as you would then not be able to come to a payment arrangement.

 

As i have said several times, if you are arranging a DRO, get the DRO company to advise the HCEO in writing that the debt they are chasing will be included in the DRO. The HCEO might then stop dealing with the account and leave you and your Dad alone.

[Peterbard]

Hi tarbug.

 

The measures are there to ensure the debtor gets the notice, you have had yours.

 

The requirement for anew notice is because although eh EA may call at any address occupied by the debtor. He may contend that he has not received a notice, now if he has moved the is good argument to support this contention.

There is nothing within the regulations which says anything about a new notice being sent in this situation, it is purely a consequence of the way it works.

 

In you case you have had your notice, also you had it delivered to a care of address which forwarded it to you. I am fairly sure that there are provisions for such a notice to be left where they would come to the attention of the debtor, which may apply.

 

Ther is no requirement to send a notice to all places where the EA may call, this was amended in later issues of the sheriffs advice in order to comply with the applicable law.

[ploddertom]

Of course I'm nervous. I don't want my dad to have any hassle because of my debt. I also don't want to lose my livelihood. Being nervous is normal in this situation. And no offence to anyone who has given advice, but I don't know any of you or your experience, so ask a lot of questions to get a bigger picture. I like to be thorough, especially when the advice contradicts what I've read elsewhere(I.E needing a new NOE for a new address or not).

 

You have been round the block a few times with this now and if you think our advice contradicts what you have read elsewhere then that is where you should now go. A word of warning though - make sure thier advice is sound and ask for some proof of same. You say you are dealing with The Sheriffs Office and I see there is one site advocating they have been taken over by CES/DCBL - that story should have started "Once upon a time" as it is a complete fairy story. Yes they may have been taken over and if you do your research carefully you will find out by who. In other words be careful.

 

Bailiff Advice has been giving advice for a long time to consumers dealing with enforcement companies. She also keeps informed about what is happening in the enforcement industry, by attending various meetings and keeping up to date with court cases and what goverment are up to.

 

As far as i know, enforcement companies only need to issue one NOE to the address they have for the debtor as their last residence. An HCEO can go looking for your goods wherever you have them, but they can't force entry to a private residential address. It might be the case that some enforcement companies believe it is good practice to send a further NOE where they have found the debtor lives at another address. I don't believe there is any legislation or industry rules that require an HCEO to issue another NOE to another address found for a debtor. Anyone know any different can reply with the details to correct me.

 

If the HCEO finds you at another address and the car in your name would go a good way towards the debt owed, then yes it could be seized. But if the value is not enough to cover all of the various fees in taking it and selling it, leaving money for creditors, then they can't touch it. If you need it to continue to earn money, then it would be counter production, as you would then not be able to come to a payment arrangement.

 

As i have said several times, if you are arranging a DRO, get the DRO company to advise the HCEO in writing that the debt they are chasing will be included in the DRO. The HCEO might then stop dealing with the account and leave you and your Dad alone.

 

Not much more can be added to that given by UncleB. Well said.

[Coughdrop]

I haven't read some of this thread as I've been 'encouraged' to take a couple of months away from the forum, so am not really posting much. Apologies if this has been suggested before, and it sounds obvious, but has your Dad told them you do not live there and everything in the house belongs to him? He can show them a Council Tax bill to prove that, and really they should leave him alone. He is under no obligation to tell them where you live.

 

Just a quick thought really, but worth just mentioning.

[Coughdrop]

You have been round the block a few times with this now and if you think our advice contradicts what you have read elsewhere then that is where you should now go. A word of warning though - make sure thier advice is sound and ask for some proof of same. You say you are dealing with The Sheriffs Office and I see there is one site advocating they have been taken over by CES/DCBL - that story should have started "Once upon a time" as it is a complete fairy story. Yes they may have been taken over and if you do your research carefully you will find out by who. In other words be careful.

 

Ploddertom, I think Starbug was actually referring to the advice from the Sheriffs Office, downloadable in pdf form and entitled "The Sheriffs Office Guide to High Court Enforcement."

 

I quoted from this earlier ("If you do subsequently find the HCEO needs to attend a different address where the debtor is now located, the HCEO will have to serve a new notice of enforcement on them, giving a further seven clear days’ notice.") Starbug stated they had also read this, so I took the comment to mean there. It's not helpful always assuming people go to another social media site, especially when this thread suggests that not to be the case.

 

Starbug will no doubt confirm to what they were referring, but I felt a little sorry for them when I read that. It was not a welcoming comment.

[Peterbard]

This is the recent advice from the sheriffs office

 

"The Notice of Enforcement must be sent or delivered to the debtor personally, giving them 7 clear days (excluding Sundays and bank holidays) to pay the sums due in full, at the place, or one of the places, where the debtor usually lives or carries on a trade or business."

 

http://thesheriffsoffice.com/high-court-enforcement/further-information/enforcement-fees-and-stages

 

The TCOG regs say the same

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1894/regulation/8/made

 

©by delivery by hand through the letter box of the place, or one of the places, where the debtor usually lives or carries on a trade or business

 

 

More importantly they say that the notice must be given to the person. It is another case of loophole searching but in practice the point of the exerciser is that the notice should arrive in the hands of the debtor, this is the intent and this is what has happened here.

 

If there was a chance of the debtor not receiving the notice because of change of address, then yes another notice would have to be issued, but if he had then he could not avoid the debt by this method.

[Bailiff Advice]

 

More importantly they say that the notice must be given to the person. It is another case of loophole searching but in practice the point of the exerciser is that the notice should arrive in the hands of the debtor, this is the intent and this is what has happened here.

 

If there was a chance of the debtor not receiving the notice because of change of address, then yes another notice would have to be issued, but if he had then he could not avoid the debt by this method.

 

Quite right DB. What is important is that a Notice of Enforcement has been brought to the debtors attention. In this particular instance, arguing that a separate NoE should be sent is just plain daft.

 

As has been mentioned quite often, the company who are seeking to put the DRO in place should be asked to drop a line to the Sheriffs Office. It should not be difficult to do.

[Bailiff Advice]

Quite right DB. What is important is that a Notice of Enforcement has been brought to the debtors attention. In this particular instance, arguing that a separate NoE should be sent is just plain daft.

 

I would have preferred to edit the above post to provide the following but missed the '10 minute edit' facility.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, in this particular case, there is no need at all for another Notice of Enforcement to be sent.

 

In Starbug's first post he

confirmed

that he used his fathers address as a 'care of' address.

 

He has also

confirmed

that he does not want the creditor or the enforcement company to know where he currently lives.

 

Most importantly, he has

confirmed

that he has been provided with the Notice of Enforcement.

[Peterbard]

Yes, absolutely right.

[doggone it]

 

It was not a welcoming comment.

 

 

 

If you took the time to read properly instead of criticising you would see the OP has been given every encouragement to engage with those who are looking for him He chooses not and that is a decision that has to be respected. As DB & BA have pointed out - on more than 1 occasion i believe - and the NOE was never returned unopened or as a gone away then it will be deemed to have been served correctly. PT took the opportunity to try and put things bluntly and if nobody likes it then tough. This thread has run to 70 posts or so and really it is no point going any further as the OP does not concur with what has been said.

[Coughdrop]

This is the recent advice from the sheriffs office

 

"The Notice of Enforcement must be sent or delivered to the debtor personally, giving them 7 clear days (excluding Sundays and bank holidays) to pay the sums due in full, at the place, or one of the places, where the debtor usually lives or carries on a trade or business."

 

 

 

More importantly they say that the notice must be given to the person. It is another case of loophole searching but in practice the point of the exerciser is that the notice should arrive in the hands of the debtor, this is the intent and this is what has happened here.

 

If there was a chance of the debtor not receiving the notice because of change of address, then yes another notice would have to be issued, but if he had then he could not avoid the debt by this method.

 

This is helpful Dodgeball. When I posted above, it was solely to clarify to Ploddertom where 'elsewhere' probably was, given the mentions earlier in this thread.

 

When I mentioned it earlier in the thread, I stated very clearly I know little about High Court issues, and stressed it repeatedly. The OP stated they had read the same pdf from The Sheriffs Office - it is dated November 2015, so should really be current, or has it changed in the past 7 or 8 months?)

 

I don't think there is any issue of looking for a loophole, nor am I sure why you think the OP is looking for a loophole. Perhaps I've misunderstood, but anyway, I was just trying to help, and reading something the OP had already read themselves, which should really be current given the date on it, though apparently isn't, in the absence of any other response at the

time.