unknown Welcome Finance CCJ? - now IND own it? help

[Andy111]

no agreement was included, either last year as they claimed or with this letter as they claimed. Just this letter and a standard useful financial info leaflet.

[dx100uk]

ive removed the last scan as it showed your name

the original has been rotated now

 

did you in your letters mention may 2007 at all?

[Andy111]

Never mentioned 2007 to them at any point myself that I recall,

certainly not in my last 2 letters sent out to them as have them to hand to check.

 

How could I as never received any requested information to refer to a date or year of this so cal!ed debt for sure.

 

But Welcome have mentioned 2007 at some point over the years

so it was more an assumption that all this relates to 2007 than anything.

 

But with IND they are now being far more precise to a date and year

yet refuse to provide the numerous times requested proof and debt evidence

and certainly never provided any form of agreement like they claim.

 

Yet here they are, requesting photographic ID & proof of residency for May 2007!.

[dx100uk]

no that's great its nailing down what they are after rather than you suggesting it.

now we know its something to do with a CCJ attained may 2007

let them carry on.

[Andy111]

An update of sorts to this.

 

I replied pointing out that they have not or ever previously sent any evidence or copy of contract of this loan agreement either last year or with their most recent correspondence from December as they claimed to have.

 

Oh, I also declined their request for me to provide any paperwork and evidence of proof of my personal details and address at the time they claim this loan was taken out.

 

after having heard nothing back for several weeks from IND

I today receive a basic sheet of paper from Northampton that lacks any detail

but seems to be an N271 Notice Of Transfer Of Proceedings..

 

Just my name and address on one side and just basic info on the other side

(which quotes the same claim number as previous) to indicate that it's a Notice of Transfer Of Proceedings to state the claim has been transferred to the County Court in my city as CCBC Solicitors (Northampton?) are no longer acting.

 

But interesting is that the claimant is no longer stated as IND but "Welcome Financial Services LTD Kingston House".

 

Not really worried at all as such,

just trying to figure out if IND have returned the case to Welcome and Welcome are trying to restart legal action afresh in my local city court?.

[AndyOrch]

Further details will follow from your local county court once the file has been transferred...then you will know what their next step is.

 

Andy

[Andy111]

Didn't realise I'd had a reply lol.

 

something bugged me slightly about the Transfer Of Proceedings notice and only realised what it was today when deciding to chase the issue with both courts.

 

And that was that this Transfer Of Proceedings stated the claimant stated as being Welcome Financial Services LTD Kingston House!.

 

Yet I had a court document back in October stating that the claimant has been substituted from Welcome Financial Services LTD to I.N.D. Limited and thus IND is now the claimant in this case.

how is Welcome Finance again named as the claimant instead of IND?.

 

Calling Northampton today and explaining this to them I think confused the person I spoke to.

 

But they looked at the limited info they had and said that both IND & Welcome Finance seem to be named on file for some reason and could only guess that IND are only acting as case solicitors despite me having a court paper stating they are in fact the current claimants and a transfer order stating this?.

 

Maybe irrelevant, will have to wait and see.

 

chasing the issue up,

Northampton said all case papers have been sent to Liverpool County Court and that all case paperwork was received and filed by Liverpool on the 1st of Feb.

 

i call Liverpool court and enquire as to the status and reason for the transfer since it's been with them for a week.

 

They could only really tell me that all paperwork has been transferred to them from Northampton and is currently before a judge in chambers to look at the case and paperwork to see if either the case can still be proceeded with or if it will be struck off seeing as the case never proceeded after I filed a defence back in 2013 and never received any requested case evidence and proof the loan\debt is genuine

 

They suggest I call back in a couple of days to see what the judge has decided over the case.

 

So as per above reply,

 

just a waiting game now I guess.

[Andy111]

Right, a timely response from the court.

 

 

The judge has for some reason allocated the claim to "the small claim track".

Slightly frustrating to be honest as the judge states

"Judge xxx has considered the statements of case and questionnaires filed and allocated the claim to the small claims track".

 

The rest is just a long list of procedure terms and mediation direction prior to going to hearing etc.

does anyone know if I can ask the courts to provide me with copies of these case statements and questionnaires filed to the court when IND or Welcome Finance transferred the case

 

 

as it would be interesting to know exactly what statement and questionnaire they have recently filed as I've received nothing relating to this and might be handy in case it does first go to mediation to know exactly what I'm supposed to be responding to?.

 

Yes,

I've been through this stage last time in 2013,

followed recommended mediation but was assumingly rejected by other side.

 

 

Welcome tried to take the case forwards,

I filed a defense and asked for copies of everything via the courts which I never received anything and then it went quiet for a few years for which we know they simply put the case on hold at that time.

[AndyOrch]

Disclosure should be dealt with in the courts Directions that you have received ?

 

Andy

[Andy111]

Well all I've received is a notice of allocation to the small claims track.

Not received any of the so called case particulars that the judge has seen and referred to.

 

 

Unless I'm missing the point and won't get these untill after the suggested mediation stage and welcome only then try to take the case to an actual hearing?.

[AndyOrch]

Is the above that you have received informing you not headed Notification of Allocation ?

[Andy111]

Yes, definitely headed "Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track (Hearing)".

 

It starts with a warning that I must comply with the terms imposed upon me by the order etc.

 

The hearing date is set for 26th April and states all parties must provide copies of all documents on which that party intends to rely at the hearing no later than 14 days before the hearing.

And that all original documents have to be brought to the hearing.

 

I guess strictly speaking they have a couple of months yet.

But assuming these such documents are currently with the court then surely they can't delay providing me with them?.

 

But last time,

in 2013 I was able to file a defense and had the relevant form to do so.

But nothing this time, just an indication that it's going to a hearing seemingly without a chance to either file a defence,

 

know what Welcome has said and presented to the court or anything to state to the courts why I feel this case should not be allowed to go ahead such as dates, statute barred, no justification to go to hearing after so long since they tried in 2013 and never have provided evidence when they tried in 2013 etc.

[AndyOrch]

They are the Directions......

 

" all parties must provide copies of all documents on which that party intends to rely at the hearing no later than 14 days before the hearing."

 

Thats standard disclosure and disclosure does not happen until that date.

 

It should also state that " Statements from each Party " ...thats your witness statement which particularises your initial defence that you have already submitted.

 

It should also refer to the claimant paying a hearing fee by xx xx 2017.

 

Andy

[Andy111]

Yes, that's right on the fee,

they have untill the 29th March to pay the fee.

 

 

My guessing is that I'll likely receive a scare-o-gram in the next week or so off IND offering an early settlement or risk higher costs at court.

 

 

Yet they never responded to my last correspondence to them late last year continuing to now consider the matter harassment, to bill them a further £30 for my time and correspondence and to decline their request I provide details and proof of my ID and address from around May 2007

 

Wander if I can inform the court, or IND\Welcome that if it goes to hearing I'll be counter claiming against Welcome for harassment?.

[AndyOrch]

Just dont miss your deadlines and do the above by the dates stated...if they fail to do it you can ask sanctions be imposed and their claim struck out.

[Andy111]

Cheers,

though as I've always stated the loan\debt is nothing to do with me and despite repeated requests for proof and evidence to claim otherwise always going unanswered there is simply nothing new I can add myself in the form of any evidence or statement.

 

Though if this evidence existed in 2013 when they tried this action

 

I'll sure to be asking the court and IND why both it was never acted on or ever provided to me when I requested it via the courts in 2013.

 

All I can do for now it per instructions to contact mediation to see what happens and to show I'm following the correct process.

[AndyOrch]

Mediation wont happen just comply with the directions....doubt they will.

[Andy111]

Just to confirm,

 

I've asked for mediation as per court directions so will just wait and see now I guess.

 

But really looking forwards to receiving all this so called evidence and proof of debt they have never previously provided despite repeated requests for it if they do try to go to hearing.

 

Funny thing is that IND had stated in their last letter that they had previously sent this so called evidence and proof yet they never have.

 

So I'm wondering, would this case evidence and proof come via the courts or welcome\IND?.

 

As I'm thinking IND could simply pull up their last letter to the court stating I've received this evidence twice now (never received any proof of evidence) and they don't need to resend again?.

[AndyOrch]

No they cant....all parties must submit their standard disclosure that a claim/defence relies upon......no evidence...no claim.

[Andy111]

So it's reasonable to assume that they have some form of "evidence" to have presented to the court to have now for the second time got a judge to have allowed a claim and set a hearing date?.

 

 

Yet when I filed a defense and asked for this evidence back in 2013 when they tried the same action they simply put the matter on hold before they provided me with any evidence or proof and took the case to a hearing.

 

 

And neither have they provided any evidence since, simply a meaningless account statement that indicated the account still active and credit\interest refunded to it.

 

Which makes me wonder, in the absence of full disclosure of this evidence if they still try to go to hearing, either they are trying for a default again on evidence they know is either false or won't stand up to scrutiny if questioned in court or all of a sudden they have suddenly uncovered something new after some 10 years.

 

Yes, all speculation I know untill either it goes to hearing or they try to put it on hold again once they realise I'm responding and defending the case.

[AndyOrch]

You have not yet got to the disclosure stage yet Andy...have you received a Notice of Allocation yet?

[Andy111]

No, guess not to the disclosure stage yet.

 

 

The only thing I've recently had is just the Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track (Hearing) but the notice has a date set for the hearing, 26th April.

 

 

I'm assuming the judge as indicated in the notice has seen all the case notes & evidence & agreed there is a face value case to answer based on what's been presented to the court as evidence?.

 

Don't get me wrong,

not worried by this at all as I know my innocence 100%,

more annoyed and feeling harassed that despite this being about a 10 year old matter being accused of a debt I've no knowledge of or repeated requests for proof and evidence going unanswered that at least 2 courts (Northampton & Liverpool) have been presented with this so called evidence to decide there is a case to answer!.

 

 

I'm wandering if I can put in a counter claim for harassment, more so if they try to put it on hold again once they realise I'll defend it?.

[AndyOrch]

So in that Notice of Allocation which states the trial date there will be the courts directions that both parties must comply with by the dates states...one is disclosure and two is exchange of witness statements and three the hearing fee the claimant must pay by the dates stated.

[Andy111]

after having received no update from the mediation service since their acknowledgement of my mediation request on the 18th of Feb I decided to call the court earlier to enquire on any update as I've heard nothing regarding the case as in still not received copies of all the documents and statements on which Welcome intend to rely on for the hearing as per the court directions.

 

Firstly I had to call mediation on a separate number as that's separate from the court and their systems, which clarified welcome had not yet responded to mediation (of cause most would know they wouldn't) but unlike myself who had to request this within 1 week of notification it seems Welcome have no limitations on when they can respond or request and can do so upto days before the hearing, which is annoying!.

 

the court said as far as they can tell the case is still going to hearing and the only recent information on the system is to state that I had requested mediation and that it was acknowledged on the 18th Feb.

 

 

Upon pointing out I was also wanting to enquire as I had received no update and still awaiting all the documents and statements (evidence) as per court notice from a month ago.

 

 

Well the person seemed rather surprised that all this never actually came with the Notice of Allocation as they asked was the case particulars included with the notification?.

No I inform them and somewhat annoyed that whilst they strictly speaking have until 14 days before the hearing date (12th April) to provide this,

 

 

all this so called evidence and case particulars have been with the courts (originally Northampton & now Liverpool) since what, early 2013 and so to still not provide all the evidence and for it to assumingly be left to the last minute giving me little time to inspect, look into the evidence and maybe sort professional advice is unjustifiable.

 

The court has now given me an email address to contact to explain this matter to as they were firstly under the impression that this maybe should have come with the Notice and unsure on if not if it's the court or welcome who are supposed to send all this out?.

 

surely if by default this evidence and case particulars are supposed to come from the courts it would have done so by now?,

as the only way the court can prove and verify it was all sent and received.

 

 

If by Welcome, well it's clearly never going to turn up as they've never provided it despite countless requests over the years.

[AndyOrch]

Its the claimants responsibility to serve you their evidence and witness statement as per the court directions stated within the Notice of Allocation.....not the courts.

 

Oh and doesn't come with the Notice of Allocation..the Notice of Allocation comes first to inform both parties what date to exchange evidence/witness statement in preparation for the hearing.

 

Court staff:roll:

 

Andy