Court summons from GREENBELT GROUP ADVICE **Discharged for £400 from +£2k**

[jennyanydots]

ok i will leave that bit out and the bit that worries me is the bit about

 

This paragraph applies to any obligation, not being part of a banking transaction, to pay money in respect of (b) services rendered, in a series of transactions between the same parties (whether under a single contract or under several contracts) and charged on continuing account.

 

The appropriate date in relation to an obligation to which this paragraph applies is the date on which payment for the goods last supplied, or, as the case may be, the services last rendered, became due.

 

I'm really stressing about this now that i get it all totally wrong

 

thank you so much for the help you have given me

[dx100uk]

ah right you are thinking the charges refund resets it..

it doesn't

its only transactions authorised by you that count either in or out.

 

 

dx

[jennyanydots]

Not sure what you mean about charges refund?...

 

I read it to mean as prescription limitation of 5 years does not apply in my case because its in services rendered, in a series of transactions between the same parties and charged on continuing account. and that

The appropriate date in relation to an obligation to which this paragraph applies is the date on which payment for the services last rendered, became due.

 

I think im confusing myself here, I have no idea really but I just became worried when I seen that.

 

I need to pop out with the document now so court gets it in the morning, thank you so much again for the help

[dx100uk]

wrong thread ignore my last post...

 

 

it would be a yearly invoice

they cant lump them all together now

and simply say

because you owe this years service charges

we can run that back outside of the 5yrs limitation as you've never paid a penny to us.

 

 

something funny is going on here

have you spoken to other tenants ? / owners

[jennyanydots]

No I haven't spoken to the neighbors about it, I have only contacted their solicitors who are adamant that prescription does not apply in my case and are going ahead with court action unless I agree to payment. I have just put in my reply to court and requested that greenbelt supply all invoices and paperwork etc as you originally suggested.

 

Im worried that If i goto court that I get totally confused and mixed up so stressing out about this now.

 

I found this out about the company so seems im not the only one dealing with problems from them: http://www.spanglefish.com/greenbeltgroupaction/

 

I will keep you all fully updated on this

 

thanks again

[dx100uk]

all I'm saying is I doubt you owe outside of 5yrs invoices

 

 

bit like elec/gas they cant back bill outside time statute of limitations/time bar

 

 

yes you most prob do owe the charges within that period [5yrs]

 

 

court is not a big thing up here

I find it a lot fairer than the English system.

[jennyanydots]

Just to update,

 

 

I wasn't provided with info requested and as I haven't received a letter stating otherwise

I guess I will just turn up to he hearing?...

 

 

I will let you know how it goes,

 

 

thanks again

[dx100uk]

turn up at the hearing yes.

 

watchout for their rep or whomever might represent them

wanting a little 'chat' before you go in.

 

in my experience , its always better to ignore these approaches

as you've had no documentation at all

so neither has the court.

 

you'll prob be sitting in whilst other cases are heard

await your turn to be called

 

then simply listen to the Sherriff and what he says

IF you are invited to speak

simply state that the pursuer has failed to provide any paperwork

so you are unable to confirm or deny anything nor construct a defence

and until they do supply paperwork

you have nothing further to add.

 

dx

[jennyanydots]

Your a Star thank you so much! really appreciate all your advice. I will update you on it thanks again!

[dx100uk]

weeks to go yet mind?

[jennyanydots]

Just to update... I went to court...

 

Was told to give my side of story first..

. I also told judge that I had been asking for a breakdown of costs for 7 years

and that I wasn't in a position to pay until I seen what the charges were for...

 

Judge was of same view as you DX100UK

- that part of claim barred....

 

 

Solicitor looked a bit nervous...

said her "principle" told her there is a section that applies to this?... she wasnt sure which section herself...

 

Judge asked why it had taken 2 years to issue first invoice to me....

She admits her client had delayed this

- (with excuse of my buying solicitor when i bought my house failing to notify them of change of ownership?)

 

also he asked why no breakdown of charges had been supplied in the 7 years that I had been asking for them.

She said that her client had now provided a substantial amount of paperwork

which se did not have time to look through yet....

 

Hes given her 4 weeks to

 

1. come back and explain why it is not subject to limitation act.

2. provide all breakdown of costs that I asked for.

 

So I guess I just sit and wait to see if she supplies the paperwork and turn up to court on the next date ?

 

Thank you again for your help

[dx100uk]

hey great news.

 

 

glad to help

and now you know you are batting from a strong position.

when you re take the crease again

[Jonnybuddy]

, the following could be helpful to defend yourelf in court:

 

 

This judgement sets an important precedent for other estates in Scotland

and has flushed out information that will be of use to homeowners on other estates

including that

homeowners have the legal right to withhold payment if they feel Greenbelt Group

or any other land-owning land maintenance company has not maintained the land adequately

or if they feel the charges are unreasonable.

 

As we've said all along,

if a company thinks it has a right to your money and you disagree,

the onus is on that company to prove its claim through the courts.

 

 

See sections 137 and 155 of the verdict - available via the link to the verdict above.

 

 

http://www.spanglefish.com/WestMyertonResidents/

 

I ask as I too have just been summoned and am looking at ways to defend myself.

 

My case is very similar to jennyanydots.

[dx100uk]

great info I've sorted the links etc

 

 

dx

[Jonnybuddy]

Thanks for that DX100uk.

 

Out of interest did you have a look at the link?

 

If you did,do you think I could use this case to defend myself?

[dx100uk]

briefly

strange me nor the OP found that site.

 

 

dx

[dx100uk]

yes total denial you or the OP actually owe anything.

 

 

might be best you start a new thread

of your own mind.

[Jonnybuddy]

I need to come up with a way to interpret this information when I defend myself in court,Its going to be tough!

[dx100uk]

prob already pulled the relevant bits out

 

 

then all you do is refer the judge to it.

 

 

dx

[Jonnybuddy]

Thanks again dx100uk.

 

 

I noticed Greenbelt interpret the verdict entirely different when reading their website.

 

I hope jennyanydots has read the information on West Myreton residents website and also uses this information in court.

 

Jennyanydots....if reading this let us know what happenend.

[jennyanydots]

Hello,

 

Today I received in the post around 200 pages of submissions from their solicitors that they state they have given to the court.

 

 

• Title deeds
  
• Greenspace plan (First I have even seen this)
  
• written statement of services (again first I have ever recieved one)
  
• Land register titles stating date I bought my house
  
• Statement of account
  
• A copy letter dated 2 years after i purchased my home welcoming me to their services
  
• A copy letter reply from me - OFT Template not recognizing debt
  
• Individual yearly bills ( Not exact copies of what i ave previously recieved - ie they slotted in an additional page with a "management breakdown costs page" with costs set out under headings "site maintenance" "remedial works""admin charge"
  

 

1. I have gone around my estate following their Greenspace plan and taken photos of all areas they have not maintained. ( Do I just take this to court or do I send them a copy in advance?)
   
2. I have found the Property Factors (Scotland) Act 2011 Code of Conduct and picked out a few bits they have not done:
   

 

• Details of the services that you will provide, and an outline of the minimum service delivery standards that can be expected;
  
• Details of your in-house complaints handling procedure and the procedure for making an application to the homeowner housing panel (if owners remain dissatisfied after completing the in-house procedure)
  
• Details of how to change or terminate the service arrangement, including signposting to the applicable legislation. This requirement may seem somewhat unusual to many.
  
• Information should not be misleading or false.
  
• There must be a procedure to consult with homeowners and seek their written approval before providing work or services in addition to the core service.
  

Not really sure where to turn next, I hadnt seen the website that the OP has stated I will read this link now (thank you) I did find this judgement though: http://www.lands-tribunal-scotland.org.uk/decisions/LTS.TC.2014.27.html

The judge is aware that I have been writing to them for 7 years to obtain information and breakdown of costs - this can be proved by their submissions. - If I do have to pay would they have to remove all the late payment charges and interest since they failed to provide information requested?

Any help appreciated as I am stressing out now

[jennyanydots]

Also Jonnybuddy - how many years are they claiming from you? There were 5 other cases called same time as me - BUT they did not turn up to represent themselves - the judge even commented to the pursuers solicitor " I take it you wish me to pass judgment and disregard the issue of prescription in this case" (or something to that effect).. - Hoping the judge has same view this time as when i raised this issue he was quite clearly in agreement with me re time barred debts (thanks to the advice of dx100uk)

I will update here as soon as I been to court again.

Thankyou so much for the help as I would have probably give up by now

[Jonnybuddy]

They are claiming from end off 2008.

 

I was not aware of them when I purchased my property.

 

They were sending bills to the previous owner until my wife called asking why they are sending bills to our property.

 

I have followed the action group against them over the years and decided to also not pay.

 

Like you, I will defend in court and see what happens from there.

[jennyanydots]

Ok new hearing didn't go so good - different Judge

 

He agreed with them that the prescription limitation of 5 years does not apply in my case

because its in services rendered, in a series of transactions between the same parties

and charged on continuing account.

and that

The appropriate date in relation to an obligation to which this paragraph applies

is the date on which payment for the services last rendered, became due. (ie This year)

So judge is agreeing with them its full 9 years invoices.

 

I explained that I had never paid anything to this "continuing account"

- I showed him photographic evidence of their failure to maintain burden areas to a satisfactory standard.

- Judge agreed that I could perhaps withhold payment if the work was not a reasonable standard.

- however would need to argue it all out in a proof which is now set....

 

Do I need a solicitor to represent me at proof?

or can I go myself?

 

Please Help!

[AndyOrch]

That does not sound correct to me Jenny.....you don't have an account with them?

 

Useful links...

 

http://www.lease-advice.org.uk/documents/Service_Charges.pdf

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1973/52

 

Andy