Do I have a legal case with the builder?

[LC0210]

Hi,

 

After a full house renovation (including a loft conversion, new heating and hot water system) that has taken many months, my family and I moved back in just before the Easter Bank holiday. Unfortunately there is a major a problem. When I turn on the kitchen sink tap it takes over 3minutes before the water becomes hot enough to wash the dishes. In that time I have filled large kitchen sink which I have to drain away and refill with hot water. I now use the kettle to heat the water to wash up.

 

All of my taps are affected (I have 3 bathrooms and a WC room on the ground floor). I now bring a kettle up to wash my face and we all wash our hands in cold water after using the toilet. When we use the shower each day a lot of water as you can imagine is wasted.

 

I e-mailed the builder to let him know about the problem and he said that nothing can be done and we had said no to his recommendation of having a circulating ring. We based our decision to not have the circulating ring on the information he presented to us and I don't believe the way he worded his response can be considered a recommendation.

 

Before the renovation we waited around 20seconds for hot water for each tap in the house.

 

Here is an extract of the e-mail exchange that took place last year before works begun - I have deleted sentences that relates to other building works and not relevant to the case.

 

From:

Date: Thursday, 23 July 2015 11:42

To:

Cc:

Subject: RE: Renovation Plans

 

Hi

 

As for the ring, I see. We will leave it then.

 

 

Regards,

 

 

 

From:

Sent: 23 July 2015 11:11

To:

Cc:

Subject: Re: Renovation Plans

 

For the ring minimum cost is £xxxx with no profit for it so can't do for xxx. As I said it's not really required.

 

 

On 23 Jul 2015, at 10:39, > wrote:

 

Hi

 

As for the circulating ring, how low can you get this price down by? At £xxx it is too much just to have instant hot water but we would consider it if could be done for the region of £xxxx? What do you think?

 

Thanks,

 

 

From:

Sent: 20 July 2015 19:59

To:

Cc:

Subject: Re: Renovation Plans

 

1. Boiler proposed is Vaillant EcoTec Plus 637 system boiler with 7 yr warranty.

2. Pressurised cylinder is everflo stainless 250L Indirect unvented hot water cylinder with 25 yr warranty.

3. All the heating system will be designed by us and BTU calculated for radiators.

4. In addition to hot water system after speaking to plumber today I should ask wether you required hot water circulating ring. This is not necessary required as is only for comfort. I have not quoted for it and should you require would be £xxx extra. Circulating ring sometimes useful if some clients wants instant hot water. It can be switched off or it also can be put on timer. To explain in short, when you open hot water tap in shower, hot water will start running in about 20-40 seconds depending on how far are they from the cylinder and how long time ago it was used. With circulating ring on hot water would appear in few seconds. Please let me know what you think. I have to mention this to avoid any doubts in future.

(Note: Shower he is referring to is the shower in the loft en-suite because during a meeting he mentioned it would take longer to get hot water there due to the distance. We did not go with the ring in the end because due to unforeseen events we were significantly over budget and needed to make cuts to items that were considered luxury. From the information presented to us it appeared to us that we had a choice and we felt we could wait 20-40seconds for hot water. At no time were we told that the taps for the rest of the house would be affected).

 

I would be grateful for your views and appreciate any advice. I have e-mailed the builder again but he is not responding now.

 

Thanks!

[BankFodder]

When did you enter into the contract?

 

I think that you will need to get ain independent expert to have a look and to see if he can explain what the problem is. Also, what it would take to fix it.

Then come back here

[LC0210]

In July 2015.

 

Yes, I agree with you and am looking for an experience plumber at the moment to carry out an assessment. Okay, will post back when the assessment has been done.

 

Thanks!

[martin2006]

What kind of distance must hot water travel to take 3 mins to reach the tap?

 

How big is the house?

[king12345]

The question comes naturally: Why didn't they install a combi boiler?

[martin2006]

The question comes naturally: Why didn't they install a combi boiler?

 

With 3 bathrooms and a wc and kitchen to supply, there isn't a combi boiler big enough to potential supply all hot water draw off points so the unvented mains pressure hot water cylinder is the correct type of installation, just doesn't seem right to me that it takes so long to get to the taps

Edited April 24, 2016 by martin2006

[king12345]

With 3 bathrooms and a wc and kitchen to supply, there isn't a combi boiler big enough to potential supply all hot water draw off points so the unvented mains pressure hot water cylinder is the correct type of installation, just doesn't seem right to me that it takes so long to get to the taps

 

Incorrect.

I have three bathrooms on three floors and a kitchen as well as 9 radiators all supplied by a Bosch 28i which is not the biggest boiler on the market.

Been running for 10 years without any issues.

[CraigMcK]

Assuming the tank has hot water. It would not make any difference using a combi as they are both running from mains pressures.

 

It could be your mains pressure is low, do you know what you have?

 

 

 

It could be its been plumbed in 15mm pipe that would limit the flow and increase time to get hot water. Roughly how far is the closest hot tape to the tank?

[martin2006]

Incorrect.

I have three bathrooms on three floors and a kitchen as well as 9 radiators all supplied by a Bosch 28i which is not the biggest boiler on the market.

Been running for 10 years without any issues.

 

Just for information purposes as i dont wish this to take over the OP's thread.

 

the worcester bosch 28i rsf can only supply a maximum of 13.1 litres/min at 30 degrees centigrade rise.

 

this would not be able to supply 3 showers (combi mixer type) plus kitchen sink and wc basin draw offs unless the showers were electric.

 

the system should be designed to cope with ALL possible draw offs running at once and im afraid that as good as a worcester bosch 28i is, it cannot do that

[king12345]

Just for information purposes as i dont wish this to take over the OP's thread.

 

the worcester bosch 28i rsf can only supply a maximum of 13.1 litres/min at 30 degrees centigrade rise.

 

this would not be able to supply 3 showers (combi mixer type) plus kitchen sink and wc basin draw offs unless the showers were electric.

 

the system should be designed to cope with ALL possible draw offs running at once and im afraid that as good as a worcester bosch 28i is, it cannot do that

 

It's always worked fine in my home.

Maybe because we don't take showers at the same time

[CraigMcK]

Ok at that point you really only have one shower. Outlets not in use in parallel don't count.

 

Back to the OP. Just a thought gave you checked the stop c0ck is fully open