Selling bound goods to pay EA

[Plague of confusion]

Quick question re. what I've been reading about bound goods.

 

I'm currently at Enforcement Stage for an old Council Tax amount on a previous address (from ~4-5 years ago).

I'm unable to pay the full amount currently, and they don't seem particularly keen on an affordable instalment arrangement.

 

My intention is to sell goods this week to raise funds to at least allow me to make a larger up-front payment in the hope of negotiating repayments for the remaining amount (if not raise enough to pay off the full amount).

 

 

However, I have read this morning that my goods are considered bound from the point that the NOE is issued.

Will I therefore be committing an offence if I attempt this (possibly disposing of goods while bound)?

No EA has entered the property, and no goods have been taken under control

(and some of the goods I intend to sell are stored elsewhere in any case).

 

Note: there is no suggestion of selling/transferring ownership to avoid seizure

or to subsequently retake possession of the items following the end of enforcement action.

 

 

Any money raised from the sale of the items will be used to repay the EA.

[ploddertom]

Have you seen anyone or had any letters since April 2014.

[martin2006]

The NoE is the first stage of an impending bailiff visit, they are required to give you 7 days notice before attending.

 

"Bailliff advice" knows this area inside out and im certain will be along to advise soon

Edited March 6, 2016 by martin2006

[Plague of confusion]

Have you seen anyone or had any letters since April 2014.

 

Yes, this is a recent enforcement of an old debt. Enforcement stage began about a week ago.

[ploddertom]

Am I to assume you have already had the Notice of Enforcement & if so is the date up they gave you to make contact or pay?

[Plague of confusion]

Am I to assume you have already had the Notice of Enforcement & if so is the date up they gave you to make contact or pay?

 

Yes, unfortunately ended up on a pile and I didn't see it in time.

Have had one visit from an EA (while I was out) to hand deliver his notice of the amount due including the £235 enforcement stage fee and his intention to take control of goods.

Edit: That was around a week ago.

 

I don't mind the fact that I'll have to pay the additional fees (although I wish I'd spotted it sooner!),

I'm just trying to find options to come up with the money for them quicker.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Plague of confusion

[ploddertom]

Do you know how much you owe as confirmed by the Council?

Do you know how many Liability Orders they have against you

& is the Bailiff enforcing them all at the same time

- he is allowed to charge the £75 Compliance Fee for each one but only a single Enforcement Fee of £235.

[martin2006]

It is my understanding that until the bailiff has "Taken control of goods" they are yours to do with as you wish.

[Peterbard]

Under section 4 of schedule 12 of the TCE goods are bound from the the notice of enforcment.

 

This means that goods cannot be sold, they are bound in the hands of the debtor, this is a different thing to being taken under control but nevertheless means that the goods cannot be sold or assigned until the enforcement power ends.

 

If however the notice was issued over 12 months ago the power would have lapsed so the binding will have ceased along with the power to enforce, so the debtor would be free to sell.

[unclebulgaria67]

It is my understanding that until the bailiff has "Taken control of goods" they are yours to do with as you wish.

 

I believe this is correct.

 

I think the bound issue relates to deliberately selling or removing items to avoid paying a liability. But not sure how they could prosecute people for this.

 

Obviously once under control of an EA, there is specific law and sanction that could be applied.

[martin2006]

My apologies and thank you dodgeball for correcting, i have edited my post so as not to cause confusion

[Peterbard]

I believe this is correct.

 

I think the bound issue relates to deliberately selling or removing items to avoid paying a liability. But not sure how they could prosecute people for this.

 

Obviously once under control of an EA, there is specific law and sanction that could be applied.

 

The sanction is that thee EA is enabled to follow the goods, and can seize them from the new owner.

[unclebulgaria67]

6(1)For the purposes of any enforcement power the property in goods of the debtor ceases to be bound in accordance with this paragraph.

(2)The property in any goods ceases to be bound—

(a)when the goods are sold;

 

(b)in the case of money used to pay any of the amount outstanding, when it is used.

(3)The property in all goods ceases to be bound when any of these happens—

 

(a)the amount outstanding is paid, out of the proceeds of sale or otherwise;

 

(b)the instrument under which the power is exercisable ceases to have effect;

 

©the power ceases to be exercisable for any other reason.

[unclebulgaria67]

The sanction is that thee EA is enabled to follow the goods, and can seize them from the new owner.

 

2)Sub-paragraph (1) does not prejudice the title to any of the debtor's goods that a person acquires—

 

(a)in good faith,

 

(b)for valuable consideration, and

 

©without notice.

[Peterbard]

Yes that is correct. If the goods are sold in good faith(when the debtor was not aware of enforcment action) the goods may still be seized but the new owner will be trated as co owner of the goods and the proceeds wil be apportioned as per section 61 (3) of the act.

 

In the above case the sale would not be in good faith as he patently is aware of the enforcment.

[Bailiff Advice]

Great discussion but not around for a couple of hours to take part.

[Peterbard]

Going back to the OP there are other issue her in regard to when the NOE was issued and if the goods are kept in the usual place of residence or work.(relevant premises)

[Plague of confusion]

Thanks all

 

AFAIK there is only one Liability Order, dated May 2012 (although I haven't confirmed this with the council, this is from the NoE).

The NoE I have is dated 12 Jan 2016. The EA's hand-delivered letter is from 25 Feb. I don't recall (and can't find) any correspondence between these two letters.

 

Some of the goods in question are in my usual residence, the rest are in storage (I.e. piled up in boxes in my parents' home from the various times I've moved in the interim).

[Peterbard]

Do any of the letters mention charges incurred wo far ?

It sounds like the first was the compliance stage letter giving you 7 days and comes with a fee of £75 the second is the enforcement stage fee which is another £235. Did anyone see the EA when he called with the second letter ?

 

There is no reason why you would tell them about the goods which he cannot find, sell them by all means and then give the money to whoever you like. I would just not say you had goods elsewhere. They cannot call at another address in any case without a warrant for that specific purpose. Who is to say to whom they belong in any case.

[ploddertom]

Sorry had to go out - joys of having your own business. Can I ask what type of goods are we talking about?

[Plague of confusion]

Do any of the letters mention charges incurred wo far ?

It sounds like the first was the compliance stage letter giving you 7 days anis comes with a fee of £75 the second is the enforcement stage fee which is another £235. Did anyone see the EA when he called with the second letter ?

 

There is no reason why you would tell them about the goods which he cannot find, sell them by all means and then give the money to whoever you like. I would just not say you had goods elsewhere. They cannot call at another address in any case without a warrant for that specific purpose. Who is to say to whom they belong in any case.

 

Correct with regards the letters and fees (the first seems to have come by normal post, the second hand delivered - a family member heard knocking on the door whilst they were in the shower, came downstairs afterwards to find the envelope).

 

That was exactly my plan, it was just having read BA's comments in another thread about goods being bound immediately following the issue of the NoE that I thought I'd better clarify before I did anything potentially foolish. Thanks again for your help.

[Peterbard]

No it is allowable to hide goods out of the way of the bailiff to avoid them being taken, this is no different.

[Plague of confusion]

Sorry had to go out - joys of having your own business. Can I ask what type of goods are we talking about?

 

Nothing particularly high value or exciting, just stuff I've accumulated over the years that could be easily sold to raise some quick cash - personal electronics, old camera gear, guitar stuff, old games consoles, etc. I couldn't really imagine an EA chasing someone down for a Mega Drive I've sold them on eBay, but you never know!

[Peterbard]

Incidentally if the bailiff has called there is nothing stopping him calling back without warning, so keep your car out of the way and keep external doors shut and locked.

[martin2006]

I'd also be careful about whats put up for sale on ebay, that will create a trail if the selling account is linked to you