Mr Lender Says No

[neil6534]

they should have been showing...did you bank account show as OD at that time on your CRA files?

[neil6534]

1st one was March 2014. For £150, I rolled over on 14/04 for £52.50. I had loans with P2P, wonga and PDUK prior. I then rolled over again 2/05 and paid £59.50. I then settled in full on the 5th May.

 

I reloaned on 21/5 for £400. I rolled this over on 6/6/14 and paid £120.

 

I then owed £520 and set up a repayment plan. To be honest I'd forgotten about the first roll overs until I just looked. That might be an indicator that I was struggling?

 

My bank account at the time was £3000 over drawn. Even if all the PDLs weren't showing on my credit file, I'm guessing at least half of them would be.

 

if you havent already you can open a free account with noddle and clearscore to see what would have been showing at that time

[katie2401]

Even just going off the first loan I've worked out that I paid £317 for a £150 loan. Yes I would have thought so but I'll try and check now

[neil6534]

one other thing....the FOS are saying at the time of the loans you stated that your income was £1750 and that after deductions you had left £1270....was this the information you provided for the 1st loan or second loan?

[katie2401]

When I first loaned with them, one bank acc was £2576 OD with a limit of £2650. Another bank account was £1893 OD with a limit of £1900.

[katie2401]

Both I think, although as previously stated, this wasn't true. However although I have submitted 6 months prior bank accounts, he has not picked up that this income was not as stated.

[renegadeimp]

Mr Lender never performs availability checks. get the FOS judgement escalated.

[neil6534]

Mr Lender never performs availability checks. get the FOS judgement escalated.

as stated with my case with FOS....mr lenders checks are totally insufficient

[neil6534]

When I first loaned with them, one bank acc was £2576 OD with a limit of £2650. Another bank account was £1893 OD with a limit of £1900.

ok so within your account limits but still thats £4500 in debt at the very least and should have raised some questions with mr lender

[neil6534]

surely your other pdl's are showing on these bank statements too?

[katie2401]

Thank you for your response and for taking the time to look at my complaint.

 

However I do not feel satisfied with the outcome for the following reasons:

 

· I do not feel that the information that I provided actively reflected the nature of my financial position at the time. I do not feel that it is possible to provide an accurate picture of affordability without looking at information such as bank statements. This information was not requested.

· Had my credit file been explored fully, it would have been noted that between both of my current bank accounts, I was at the time almost £5000 overdrawn.

· It would have also been noted that I had four open credit cards and that despite these being up to date, acquiring further credit would not have helped the situation.

· After receiving my first loan, I rolled this over twice. In total paying £267.20 for a sum of £150 borrowed.

· After rolling over twice and then settling in full; I do not feel that it was responsible to further led to myself the sum of £400, when I have clearly struggled to pay the sum in full for a much smaller amount.

· Although I was agreed to borrow £400 I only received £383 as there was a fee for a faster payment, which I know to be free.

· Although I was offered a discount when I completed a payment plan, this reflected the charges received when I had missed a weekly payment. In fact, according to my calculations and taking into account the roll over that I paid, I have in fact repaid £570.17. Therefore interest and charges were not removed to successfully reflect the financial hardship that I was experiencing at the time.

[katie2401]

This is my draft response to the ajudicator, hope it sounds ok.

[neil6534]

leave it with me...i'll look at it later for you

[neil6534]

for now just list the date you made for each loan and how much thep payments were for if this is allowed on here

[katie2401]

21/3/14: borrowed £133 (approved for £150 but faster payment charge).

15/4/14: £52.50 roll over.

8/5/14: £40.36 - rollover

8/5/14: £150 paid in full.

21/5/14: borrowed £400 - received £383

17/6/14: £120 rollover

Payment plan:

18/7: £32.50

25/7: £32.50

7/8: £32.50

15/8: £32.50

21/8: £32.50

28/8: £32.50

12/9: £30

17/9: £10

18/9: £30

25/9: £30

2/10: £35

10/10: £30

17/10: £29.17

27/10: £30

27/10: £20

30/10: £11

 

Thanks very much

[Guest]

Hi Katie.

 

The fact that the lender asked for some outgoings is a very big deal to the fos, whether they were correct or not is practically irrelevant to them. Note that the fos haven't commented on whether they think the loans were affordable, they only consider that if they decide the lender didn't do enough checks.

 

I think there's something in the fsa handbook on affordability which says lenders should do at least 2 of several things which includes asking for outgoings/budget and performing a credit check. There's a discrepancy in getting complaints uphold between loans in the last 2 years or so when almost every lender asks for outgoings and loans before then when almost no lender asked for that.

 

IMO you should look for something else, ask the adjudicator for the case file and they will send you all the evidence in the case, including the emails MR L has sent them, the credit checks they sent in and any other documents they sent which could show something. If for example they had declined a loan application from you then approved you shortly after they will need to explain what had changed, or if you ever told them anything about your situation and it's in their contact notes.

 

You will also know when/if the adjudicator is exaggerating when they refer to the information Mr L has provided them and what it shows.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Guest
formatting

[neil6534]

Hi Katie.

 

The fact that the lender asked for some outgoings is a very big deal to the fos, whether they were correct or not is practically irrelevant to them. Note that the fos haven't commented on whether they think the loans were affordable, they only consider that if they decide the lender didn't do enough checks.

 

I think there's something in the fsa handbook on affordability which says lenders should do at least 2 of several things which includes asking for outgoings/budget and performing a credit check. There's a discrepancy in getting complaints uphold between loans in the last 2 years or so when almost every lender asks for outgoings and loans before then when almost no lender asked for that.

 

IMO you should look for something else, ask the adjudicator for the case file and they will send you all the evidence in the case, including the emails MR L has sent them, the credit checks they sent in and any other documents they sent which could show something. If for example they had declined a loan application from you then approved you shortly after they will need to explain what had changed, or if you ever told them anything about your situation and it's in their contact notes.

 

You will also know when/if the adjudicator is exaggerating when they refer to the information Mr L has provided them and what it shows.

 

I agree...get that info first, then we can all make a plan of action whether or not it is worth pursuing further

[katie2401]

I have requested the information and evidence so will see if I can pick anything apart when (if) he sends it to me. I'm not getting my hopes up, seems like the decision is already made.

[neil6534]

any update?

[katie2401]

Funny you should ask, I've just had the following email: Thanks for your patience whilst I’ve been in touch with Mr Lender. Unfortunately, there’s only certain evidence its allowed for me to send over to you. The only documents its willing for me to send to you is a copy of your final response letter and copies of the credit agreements for the loans. I’m aware that you would’ve already seen this information, but please let me know if you’d like me to send over copies. I also asked if it could send copies of the following documents which I considered when reaching my opinion on your complaint: - A copy of the application form you filled in when applying for your loans - A copy of the information it saw when carrying out credit checks - Dialog notes for your complaint Mr Lender hasn’t given me permission to send you the above evidence. Its reason for this is because the information is from its internal system. As it is business sensitive information, Mr Lender is unwilling for it to be disclosed. What I can do is offer you a summary of how the above information led to me coming to my opinion. As mentioned in my opinion letter, I was provided with a copy of an online application form you filled in. The application form showed that you filled in your income as £1750. Your disposable income was filled in as £1270. The form also indicated that you hadn’t filled in any other loans. Based on you what you recorded as your disposable income, and that you didn’t make Mr Lender aware of any other loans, I can’t see its made an error in accepting your loan application. I also looked at the information Mr Lender saw when carrying out credit checks. From this information, it saw that you’d settled previous accounts in the past. It saw that you had a high credit score. It also noticed you had no account defaults within the last three years, and no evidence of IVA’s, CCJ’s or bankruptcies. The information that Mr Lender saw wouldn’t have caused any reason for it to be concerned when assessing your loan applications. I assessed its dialog notes for your complaint. I also looked at the emails you forwarded me. You’d informed Mr Lender that you were in financial difficulty on 15 July 2014. It offered you a reasonable repayment plan the following day. When you missed a payment on 5 September 2014, you informed Mr Lender that this was due to a change in your employment. Whilst I accept that Mr Lender could have dealt with this situation better in responding to your emails, Mr Lender did credit your account on 13 September 2014 for the interest and charges received throughout the period of time in question. Hopefully this helps clear up what information I used to form my opinion, and why it did so. Apologies for any repetition of the information I sent you in my opinion letter. If you have any further queries, please let me know by 18 January 2016. If I don’t I hear from you by then, we might not be able to look into your complaint again. Hope to hear from you soon.

[neil6534]

OK...you said previously that you had other loans and defaults at the time the loan was taken...and Mr L are saying nope we didnt see that....what proof did they send FOS? Maybe you should go to clearscore, noddle and if you are with any other CRA print off the records and send them back to FOS when you esculate your case with them

[katie2401]

I have an account with Check My file. I had a default registered on there from a credit card, although this was from 2011. There is no mention in the findings of the rollovers or anything. I sent a copy of my CRA to the ombudsman. Think I might just have to accept defeat with this one. Although my credit score may have been good at the time, this was because I was maintaining my loans by borrowing from other companies etc.

[neil6534]

hold on....there are some very knowledgable people on here and they'll be in touch

[Guest]

Funny you should ask, I've just had the following email: Thanks for your patience whilst I’ve been in touch with Mr Lender. Unfortunately, there’s only certain evidence its allowed for me to send over to you. The only documents its willing for me to send to you is a copy of your final response letter and copies of the credit agreements for the loans. I’m aware that you would’ve already seen this information, but please let me know if you’d like me to send over copies. I also asked if it could send copies of the following documents which I considered when reaching my opinion on your complaint: - A copy of the application form you filled in when applying for your loans - A copy of the information it saw when carrying out credit checks - Dialog notes for your complaint Mr Lender hasn’t given me permission to send you the above evidence. Its reason for this is because the information is from its internal system. As it is business sensitive information, Mr Lender is unwilling for it to be disclosed. What I can do is offer you a summary of how the above information led to me coming to my opinion. As mentioned in my opinion letter, I was provided with a copy of an online application form you filled in. The application form showed that you filled in your income as £1750. Your disposable income was filled in as £1270. The form also indicated that you hadn’t filled in any other loans. Based on you what you recorded as your disposable income, and that you didn’t make Mr Lender aware of any other loans, I can’t see its made an error in accepting your loan application. I also looked at the information Mr Lender saw when carrying out credit checks. From this information, it saw that you’d settled previous accounts in the past. It saw that you had a high credit score. It also noticed you had no account defaults within the last three years, and no evidence of IVA’s, CCJ’s or bankruptcies. The information that Mr Lender saw wouldn’t have caused any reason for it to be concerned when assessing your loan applications. I assessed its dialog notes for your complaint. I also looked at the emails you forwarded me. You’d informed Mr Lender that you were in financial difficulty on 15 July 2014. It offered you a reasonable repayment plan the following day. When you missed a payment on 5 September 2014, you informed Mr Lender that this was due to a change in your employment. Whilst I accept that Mr Lender could have dealt with this situation better in responding to your emails, Mr Lender did credit your account on 13 September 2014 for the interest and charges received throughout the period of time in question. Hopefully this helps clear up what information I used to form my opinion, and why it did so. Apologies for any repetition of the information I sent you in my opinion letter. If you have any further queries, please let me know by 18 January 2016. If I don’t I hear from you by then, we might not be able to look into your complaint again. Hope to hear from you soon.

 

What a load of crap from the adjudicator who either doesn't know what he's doing or is trying to hide from something. I requested a copy of my case file for 5 complaints they were looking at (3 already settled) and received everything for the 5 individual cases the same day, loads of internal screenshots from their systems but even if it were in the remotest bit business sensitive they could have cut the header off and left the text notes. I made this request to the team leader of the payday loans team though because I'd already made a complaint about the adjudicator by that stage and was dealing with the team leader. You could ask the adjudicator for their team leaders contact details and ask her for the case file.

 

What about the emails between the adjudicator and Mr L, how can that be business sensitive? And the application form! anyone could go to their site and view that. Even if documents are from an internal system they could convert them to alternative format or cut off the header like I've said. Of course Mr L would say they don't want to share the information if they were asked because the least you know the better for them, but the adjudicator shouldn't have even asked them because it's not for the business to decided what can be shared.

 

This is from FOS site on FAQ Businesses;

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/faq/businesses/answers/handle_cases_a5.html

 

If you believe that some information should be kept confidential between you and us, you should mark that information clearly and tell us why you think we should not pass it to the consumer. We will consider your request - but we may not agree to it, unless there is a strong case for confidentiality, such as security reasons

[katie2401]

Thank you for your responses. Should I bother responding or just take it as a defeat? I do understand some of his reasoning but I don't agree that they should have let me reloan.