Enforcement officers entering property.ctax debt

[neword]

Hi All,

 

Forgive me if this is in the wrong place as I am not sure which one to post it to.

 

Today my daughter found two enforcement officers in her house when she returned home.

They told her that they had a court order to obtain £640. for old council tax bill that my daughter knew about and had told the council she would pay it off in instalments.

 

They issued her with no papers of any kind and would not say anything when questioned about the court papers and would not show them or any other papers to show they had a right to enter the property. They would only say that they were on file.

 

The debt came about through the council messing her about when they she lived at a different property.

 

The council had passed the debt out to a DMT but my daughter told them that she wanted to deal only with the Council and was told by the council that she would have to wait till the debt was passed back to them.

 

They would not answer any question but would try to force the conversation away from any questions asked. Then because they did not like the questions I was asking they added another £110.00 to the bill.

 

What I want to know is

 

Did they have a right to enter the property while no-one was in (the door was closed but unlocked as she was just across the road)?

Should they have had copies of court orders so that we could see them?

Should they have had any papers saying they had the right to enter the property?

 

 

Thats it for now but if more info is needed I will add it.

[obiter dictum]

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/action-your-creditor-can-take/bailiffs/letting-a-bailiff-into-your-home/can-a-bailiff-force-entry-into-your-home/

[neword]

Interesting read but cannot find anything which relates to any papers or if they have to show any that they

have the right to enter.

[unclebulgaria67]

If the door was unlocked they could enter, but they should have left when asked to do so. For council tax, it has to be peaceful entry with consent. They cannot charge anymore than the standard compliance and enforcement fees totalling £310. So the £110 is not relevant.

 

They should have showed indentity and other paperwork to the debtor. Complain to the council about the conduct of the EA's.

[mikeymack2002]

Would this thread not be better off in the Bailiff section for better/further advice as is lost in the benefits section!

[neword]

We are definitely going to complain about the way in which they entered the property also the fact they

would not show any form of papers relating to entering the property and also the fact they would not show

copies of the actual court ruling.

 

Also I might add my daughter was totally unaware that there was some court proceedings going on

[neword]

mikeymack2002 you are probably right with respect to where it should have been posted.

I did say I apologise if it is in the wrong place.

[unclebulgaria67]

We are definitely going to complain about the way in which they entered the property also the fact they

would not show any form of papers relating to entering the property and also the fact they would not show

copies of the actual court ruling.

 

Also I might add my daughter was totally unaware that there was some court proceedings going on

 

They would have wriiten to the address they had for her.

[mikeymack2002]

As far as entering without consent, they can enter a closed but unlocked door, so they have now gained peaceful entry, they would most certainly made an inventory of assets they debtor owns.

 

 

They may then take those goods to satisfy the debt. Not what you want to hear, I believe that if they have made this list then you will need to contact the EA to make arrangements to pay the debt. If they have made a list and left a copy in the property then you cannot now dispose of those goods. I hope that the named debtor has spoken to the EA or their office, has this been done yet?

 

 

Did you get a letter of enforcement saying that an EA will be attending? this is required for the start of the process, could you please find out and if it has been received what was the date of the letter and the date of the attendance?

[mikeymack2002]

The site team may make an admin move of your thread to the appropriate section, there you will have far more responses

[neword]

The debt has been paid while they were there but I feel the way they kept skipping

around my questions was not right and I thought something was fishy.

 

According to my daughter there was no prior communication concerning this debt and

no letter of enforcement was delivered or shown while they were there

 

I also forgot to add that they had the never to ask us if we wanted a receipt. Blooming dam right we did.

 

It was only then that we found the name of the actual company they worked for.

[mikeymack2002]

What company was the EA from did they tell you or provide any information at all?

[mikeymack2002]

The fact that the original debt was lodged at a different address could help, but the notices from the LA could have gone there. If so they really should not have enforced at the current address unless the Warrant of Control stated this...More info is need now please...

[neword]

Cannot remember the company name at the mo as I am at my place and my daughter lives elsewhere.

 

They provided no information or papers of any kind. They did say they were working for the council.

 

My feelings are that they are a DMA who were BS'ing my daughter and intimidating her into getting the money.

[neword]

She has been in this property (Housing association) for the last 18 months and the council

pay her benefits wrt HB and CT (or whatever they call it now).

 

What's a warrant of control?

[mikeymack2002]

It would help if you could post up a copy of the receipt with all person details removed and it will need to be in PDF format, this way we can see what is or has gone on...

[neword]

Ok I will see if I can do that copy of receipt.

 

Never done a pdf before so could have a few problems.

[mikeymack2002]

A Warrant of Control (WoC) allows an Enforcement Officer (EA) the power to take control of goods to pay for a debt that is owed. An EA is a new name for a Bailiff ok?

 

 

Before the EA can take control or visit they MUST send the debtor what is known as a letter of enforcement 7 days prior to their visit, this allows the debtor to make an arrangement to pay the outstanding monies owed. Please check to see if this has been received, also it may pay you to contact the Local Authority (LA) when this was done and to which address it was sent...

 

 

I have asked a fellow poster to drop by and give you further advice this could be soon ok...

[mikeymack2002]

Ok I will see if I can do that copy of receipt.

 

Never done a pdf before so could have a few problems.

 

 

Have a read of my attachment on how to do this a very simple guide

[neword]

Unfortunately my version of Microsoft word does not support saving to pdf (shows hoe old it is)

So looking for alternative ways to do the conversion.

 

What I can say is that the firm is

 

M. A. Julious and co.

Certified Baliffs by Appointment to local authorities, magistrates courts,

industrial/commercial landlords, customs and excise and inland revenue

 

and that my daughter says she had no communication prior to them

being at her house.

[Bailiff Advice]

Hi All,

 

The council had passed the debt out to a DMT but my daughter told them that she wanted to deal only with the Council and was told by the council that she would have to wait till the debt was passed back to them.

 

As has been already mentioned, bailiffs can indeed enter the property through an unlocked door.

 

Before getting to the stage of a personal visit the legislation provides that the enforcement company must send a Notice of Enforcement. You have said that your daughter had not received any such notice.

 

I note in your first post that you have said that the council passed the debt to a DMT (I assume you mean an enforcement company) and that your daughter spoke with the council to advise them that she would not deal with the company and was told by the council that she would have to wait till the debt was passed back. From this it does seem to be the case that your daughter had received a Notice of Enforcement. Did she take any further action after speaking with the council?

[neword]

Just been on the CAB website and this now concerns me

 

You can ask to see:

 

evidence of the bailiff's identity

the authorisation allowing them to enter your home and take control of your belongings.

 

Despite me asking several times to see any authorization and court papers they basically

refused to do so by stating that they are "On File".

 

They showed me no ID's or had any on display.....

 

All they had were file folders which they did not open

[neword]

Bailiff Advice...

 

I do not know whether or not she followed up her initial talk with the council. You know how some

young ones are with this sort of thing.

 

I did ask her if she had received any papers prior to them coming but she said no.... I am beginning

to get the feeling that she may have but hoped that by ignoring them they would go away....

 

What does concern me is that despite asking to see their papers they just said they were on file

[Bailiff Advice]

Bailiff Advice...

 

I do not know whether or not she followed up her initial talk with the council. You know how some

young ones are with this sort of thing.

 

I did ask her if she had received any papers prior to them coming but she said no.... I am beginning

to get the feeling that she may have but hoped that by ignoring them they would go away....

 

What does concern me is that despite asking to see their papers they just said they were on file

 

It certainly does appear that she had prior notification and like many people, probably hoped that by ignoring the company that the debt would be returned. If you read as many forums that I I do, you will find that the general advice given to debtors is to IGNORE the bailiff visit and that 'apparently' a bailiff will only try to visit on a maximum of three occasions (wrong) after which, the debt magically gets returned. This is sadly a myth.

 

There is actually no such document such called a Liability Order but the officers should most certainly have shown your daughter a copy of their certificate and there should have been case details on their electronic devices (iPad's etc).

 

My immediate concern is with the additional charge of £110. Was this actually charged and did you pay this amount?

 

Did the officer make a list of any goods within the property that they 'intended' on removing?

[brassnecked]

If no list of on a Controlled Goods Order, and no threat to remove the £110 was added unlawfuloly as it is the sales fee imho, but BA will know more specifics.