natwest Business loan got repo help

[IamALLthatIam]

Hi All , need some help with a very long , ongoing saga with natwest....

 

has a business loan from natwest for £59.950..

. this was back in 2005 ( bought village shop)

 

long story short

had to default on loan as business failed in 2008 ,

 

limped along until 2010 ....

........ was hoping it was a recoverable glitch due to losing all passing trade as a result of a major build in the area ..

......was hoping to build business up again after opening of housing estate and race course etc

 

from 2010 natwest went for bankruptcy and failed via a stautory demand

 

they also went for a charging order on residential property but failed

 

recently been to court for repossession whereby they won possession order........

........... submitted a defence that was immediately thrown out.............. refuse permission to appeal

 

still trying to negotiate with natwest four weeks on,

as since 2010 been unemployed but an now working and

would like to resume payments as even thought business is no longer trading i am actually living at the property after marriage breakup

 

Issue i have is that natwest have now doubled the repayments from £574 to over £1000 a month which i cannot afford

 

what i want to know is ,

are there any arguments that can be used concerning the fact that the increase is unreasonable?

 

i know that this is not the same as a rental agreement

BUT i am living there and there are rules about excessive rents and i am sure i have read about there being regulations that concern a minimum amount that you need to live on.

 

this is in rural wales and the average income round here is not one that would allow for that sort of repayment each months

 

, if it was repossessed and sold at auction no one local could afford a grand a month

 

just at a loss as to want i can do to keep a roof over my head,

 

i know there is nothing that can force them to accept, however certain regulations and their credit licence guidance says they must exercise forbearance and work with you if you are in difficulty. it seems all along all they are doing it working against me.

 

running out of time now and dont knwow hat else to do

 

i would be very grateful for any suggestions

[dx100uk]

So what was judged at the possession order

How did you come to be still in the property now?

 

Dx

[IamALLthatIam]

possession was granted on 15th june, but i was given 4 weeks to move out

- which i have done into temporary accommodation

- some possessions are still there

- have been negotiating during that time

 

 

have submitted an income and expenditure form a nd made a offer to repay,

 

 

was told that because i had submitted that offer natwest would not enforce the repo order in 13th july

- which they havent.

 

 

i was hoping they would get back to me accepting the offer but they have left it til the 11th hour to refuse it stating they want over £1000 a month

 

This is the same as what they done in court

- i submitted my defence

- they did not response until the day of the hearing

[caro]

How long is left on the loan?

[IamALLthatIam]

it was originally over 15 years

the loan was taken out in june 2005 but repayments stopped 2010 when the business closed

[caro]

So you made no payments for 5 years?

 

 

I was thinking if you could pay off the balance over the life of the loan that may be a possibility, but I guess the loan has been terminated now.

 

 

Site team have been made aware of your thread so see what others have to say.

[IamALLthatIam]

Thank you Caro!!

 

there have been no payments for 5 years but not for the want of trying.......... we kept natwest fully informed of our difficulties when business was open , explaining about the loss of footfall / passing trade etc and the expansion of the local community ie racecourse and housing which would hopefully increase trade once road through village was reopened but rather than accepting reduced payments or a payment holiday they demanded the whole amount which was unreasonable and way beyond our means, they went straight for the stat dec and bankruptcy thats why business closed and payments ceased.

 

i do not think the loan has been terminated as such as they are still willing to accept payments of £1000+ a month even though account has been passed to shoosmiths.

 

i just think this is a deliberate and irresponsible conversion of good debt into bad debt, they are trying to just get the debt off there books by inflating the repayments to an amount they know is not achievable and was wondering if there was anything we can do as now employed and we have offered same repayment (£574pm) and are happy to extend the term of the loan until our circumstances improve , but they are having none of it and seen intent on asset stripping

[caro]

Did you go to court?

 

What was your defence?

 

Why was it not accepted?

 

 

Did you provide an I&E to the court?

[IamALLthatIam]

Did you go to court?

 

What was your defence?

 

Why was it not accepted?

 

 

Did you provide an I&E to the court?

 

 

yes it went to court, first hearing was adjourned for 14 days as legal representation on either side didn't bother to turn up, we claimed that if no one bothered to turn up technically there was no case to answer, but judge was having none of that.

 

At second hearing we were pretty much railroaded. talked over and not allowed to speak as we were representing ourselves due to the fact that we had lost faith in the no show and no one else is willing to take this case on as it has been going on for so long and is so convoluted.

 

Second hearing had a delayed start as Natwest barrister submitted a witness statement which we claimed should either be disregarded or the case should be adjourned again as they had 14 days to submit that, and had deliberately left it to the 11th hour so that we could not include it in our defense. Natwest was ****ed off at the request for another adjournment demanded and immediate possession claiming enough time has been wasted for a pretty much open and shut case.

 

judge agreed that enough time has been wasted, referring back to the statutory demand and the bankrupcty order (both of those were chucked out because Natwest were ordered to rely on the security seeing as it was a secured loan).

 

yes we submitted a income and expenditure formed and could show that we could now meet the original payments and were willing to extend the term - the only reason the payments stopped was that the business failed (as explained above) and after closure was in receipt of JSA - circumstances have now changed as working etc also flat above shop is home where i living property is not just a business property, in reality the shop could be rented out to raise further income or it could have a change of use and the bottom could be converted into another flat which would provide additional rental income.

 

Natwest refused to accept the £574 demanded ££1,121 a month or immediate possession, could we agree to and maintain that? No, therefore possession was granted suspended for four weeks so we can find somewhere else to live with permission to appeal refused.

[caro]

From what we see on CAG, if a mortgage is in arrears and the homeowner can prove to a judge that they can afford the repayments plus something off the arrears, judges will invariably allow people to stay in their homes.

 

 

As this is not a normal mortgage, the debt has been secured on your property, nothing paid for some years, and you've been told you can't appeal, I don't know where you can go with this.

 

 

Do you have any home insurance with a law help line, or a local law centre where you can get free advice? Failing that it might be worth calling National Debtline to see if they can suggest any options, and maybe Shelter.

[IamALLthatIam]

From what we see on CAG, if a mortgage is in arrears and the homeowner can prove to a judge that they can afford the repayments plus something off the arrears, judges will invariably allow people to stay in their homes.

 

 

As this is not a normal mortgage, the debt has been secured on your property, nothing paid for some years, and you've been told you can't appeal, I don't know where you can go with this.

 

 

Do you have any home insurance with a law help line, or a local law centre where you can get free advice? Failing that it might be worth calling National Debtline to see if they can suggest any options, and maybe Shelter.

 

 

see that's the issue , its NOT a mortgage, never was, that's why the Stat Dec and bankruptcy was chucked out of court as Natwest kept referring to it as a mortgage. It was a secured flexible business loan.

 

Been through National debtline, Shelter, CAB, local and online solicitors and no one will touch it with a barge pole.

 

The best advice we have had so far is to hand the keys back under protest and duress and start criminal proceedings against Natwest, but the does not help at all with somewhere to live as the flat above the shop is currently occupied, that leaves me homeless which means i will lose my job

[caro]

The best advice we have had so far is to hand the keys back under protest and duress and start criminal proceedings against Natwest, but the does not help at all with somewhere to live as the flat above the shop is currently occupied, that leaves me homeless which means i will lose my job

 

 

Why criminal proceedings?

 

 

Have you been in touch with the local council about becoming homeless?

 

 

The only other option I wonder about is if you could apply for an extension to allow you to sell the property yourself and reduce any shortfall - or maximise any equity there may be. As you aren't allowed an appeal though, I don't know if this is an option.

[IamALLthatIam]

It was suggested criminal proceedings as what they have done may be fraudulent - don't know, haven't looked into this route yet and don't know enough about it - i thought it was more to do with contract law and the fact that the contract is supposed to be flexible hence the name "flexible business loan" yet they refuse to budge - don;t know enough about that either !!!!

 

The property is in negativity equity they will not even scrape half of what they think they are owed, should it go to auction, the property has been on the market on and off since 2008 with very little interest due to the location, the price ie what's needed to cover the loan amount and the fact that it is in a state of disrepair.

 

As far as the council are concerned, not a priority as i am intentionally making myself homeless and no dependent children, so very low points and therefore they are under no obligation to do anything, there is a ten year plus waiting list in this neck of the woods. cannot private rent with no deposit or rent in advance, would not be entitled to housing benefit anyways as i earn just over the threshold and have assets of more than 16k as far as they are concerned until the property is sold

[caro]

Regarding the flexibility issue and playing devil's advocate, as you didn't make payments for several years I'd suggest that you probably broke the terms of the contract yourself. I'm not taking a pop or criticising you. Just stating a fact.

 

 

I was watching a programme on TV the other night where the council would provide the money for a deposit for private renting because social housing isn't available. I believe that was classed as HB, so maybe you wouldn't qualify, but might be worth a phone call.

 

 

One thing that I would say is don't pay another penny on the loan and use any money you might have used for that to save towards a deposit.

[IamALLthatIam]

Regarding the flexibility issue and playing devil's advocate, as you didn't make payments for several years I'd suggest that you probably broke the terms of the contract yourself. I'm not taking a pop or criticising you. Just stating a fact.

 

 

I was watching a programme on TV the other night where the council would provide the money for a deposit for private renting because social housing isn't available. I believe that was classed as HB, so maybe you wouldn't qualify, but might be worth a phone call.

 

 

One thing that I would say is don't pay another penny on the loan and use any money you might have used for that to save towards a deposit.

 

 

it's ok Caro, i am not taking anything as criticism, as totally agree with you, fully appreciate we broke the contract in that sense by not paying, we have never debated that side of it, it was as result of circumstances that were beyond our control. When we bought the shop there were no plans to build the racecourse or bypassing the road through he village so it was not something we could have known about and catered for in advance.

 

We have always been willing to pay what we lawfully owe.

 

That is partly why we have not made payments since being back in employment _ natwest are not really interested in recouping what they think they are owed to be fair, this has not been about us MAKING PAYMENTS from the outset it has been about asset stripping, we offered payment when we were going through the bankruptcy and Stat Dec but they wouldn't accept - payments now would just amount to throwing good money after bad.

 

IT is just a very unfair way of operating - wouldn't be so bad if we just defaulted on the loan and had no intention of meeting our obligations - we were just trying to do whats honorable and would rather see the place used and up and running or rented out rather to just sit there and fall into even more decay. It's a tiny community that everyone is being driven out of as the developers want the land to explain the housing round the racecourse. 25% of the housing they have built was supposed to be affordable housing , but no one from the village has been able to move in, they have all been bought has holiday homes, short lets, by investors and the rents are skyhigh because they overlook the racecourse. The intention i presume is to buy up and demolish our little terrace with Natwest getting a backhander

[caro]

I know we haven't been able to offer much help, but please do let us know how you get on.