andrew wilson Andrew Wilson - HEO

[tony3x]

Just a bit of initial advice.

Just had a friend on the phone who has received a NOE from Andrew Wilson.

Background;

Friend split from his wife and moved out. He has moved in with a friend for the time being. He had a dispute with his accountant over extra fees that were charged that he did not agree to. He is not sure if this went to court (told him to check credit file) but I feel that it may have done.

AW say they will be visiting the address he is now living at on Monday.

He is the director (sole) of his Ltd company and the NOE is in that name not his personal.

He has no personal possessions (other than clothes) where he is now living but does have the company van, tools etc.

 

I have told him to register on here to give the story in more detail but he won't be back from work until after 5pm.

 

Any advice that I can may be give him.

 

Thanks

[numbers666]

1. Check trust online for CCJ - in personal and LTD company name.

 

2. Check credit files for CCJ if needed.

 

3. Failing the above, get the references off AW.

 

4. Did the accountant work for LTD company or him personally ? In what manner is the disputed invoice addressed.

 

The EA can seize anything belonging to the LTD company, including vehicles. They will do this if the amount is not settled by prior arrangement.

 

The alternative is to seek a set aside / stay. Was the claim not defended or was there no knowledge.

 

A bit of document gathering will be required, getting information from the CC - AW should provide the reference number.

 

I am sure more will respond later

 

N

[tony3x]

Thanks for the reply.

Question re the vehicle - he is a one man band so can the vehicle be seized if it will stop him from working.

 

The dispute is about extra charges. He was charged an annual fee by the accountant which he was ok with. He was then told by phone that they needed to do some extra work on 2 years accounts and quoted a price nearly twice that of the annual fee (not inc the annual fee). Hr agreed this was ok but when the work was done he was invoiced the amount that was 4 times the annual fee. The accountant said that he agreed this verbally. e said that he agreed the fee as quoted, it was never mentioned that this was for each year.

 

I will find out if the accountant was working personally or via a company. He did mention that he sometimes paid the fee cash and sometimes by cheque.

 

Will check trust online & cred rep.

[numbers666]

If the van is registered to the Ltd company and the noe relates to the Ltd company yes as it is an asset of the company.

 

I assume he is both a director and employee of Ltd company ?

 

If the van is registered to him personally and it it seized then that's a no no. Won't stop an enthusiastic hceo from attempting to seize it but there would be recourse.

 

Need to find out more about the judgement.

 

Would be helpful to post up removing identifiable information.

 

Looks like the claim was not defended.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

If the van is registered to the Ltd company and the noe relates to the Ltd company yes as it is an asset of the company.

 

I assume he is both a director and employee of Ltd company ?

 

If the van is registered to him personally and it it seized then that's a no no. Won't stop an enthusiastic hceo from attempting to seize it but there would be recourse.

 

Need to find out more about the judgement.

 

Would be helpful to post up removing identifiable information.

 

Looks like the claim was not defended.

 

It makes no difference who it is REGISTERED to. It will be up to the EA to decide on whether to remove or not. The debtor, or the third party, will need to provide proof of ownership, not proof of registered keeper.

[Bailiff Advice]

It makes no difference who it is REGISTERED to. It will be up to the EA to decide on whether to remove or not. The debtor, or the third party, will need to provide proof of ownership, not proof of registered keeper.

 

I have always valued your advice Grumpy but on this point I have to disagree.

 

There are at least three different legislations that state that unless the contrary is proved.....that the registered keeper is assumed to be the owner.

[tony3x]

Thanks all.

We are hoping to get together tomorrow with what paperwork he has and sort through. I will get it all scanned up.

[tony3x]

Just had a look at the paperwork that has been received. On the face of it looks like no leg to stand on as all seems to be in order.

 

Letter dated 03/02/15 from solicitors requesting payment sent to his current address.

Claim form dated 23/02/15 sent to correct address.

Judgement dated 23/03/15 sent to correct address.

NOE dated 01/07/15 sent to correct address with an enforcement time and date. Enforcement date is 13/07/15.

 

All in the company name. The only assets the company has are the van and tools.

 

Just about the get the docs scanned on.

[tony3x]

Docs

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]58434[/ATTACH]

[Bailiff Advice]

J

 

Background;

 

Friend split from his wife and moved out. He has moved in with a friend for the time being. He had a dispute with his accountant over extra fees that were charged that he did not agree to. He is not sure if this went to court (told him to check credit file) but I feel that it may have done.

 

AW say they will be visiting the address he is now living at on Monday.

 

He is the director (sole) of his Ltd company and the NOE is in that name not his personal. He has no personal possessions (other than clothes) where he is now living but does have the company van, tools etc. Thanks

 

I have looked at the paperwork that you have displayed and at first glance it does all appear in order.

 

On the Notice of Enforcement it states that the notice was issued on 1st July and that your friend has been given until 4pm today (13th July) to either make payment or put forward a payment proposal. I am therefore at a loss to understand why your friend was told on the telephone that a visit would be made today !!!

 

Since the introduction of the new(ish) regulations in April 2014 it is the case that with judgments passed to High Court enforcement agencies that a significant percentage are subject to payment arrangements and if you friend cannot pay, then he needs to make a proposal by no later than 4pm today.

 

If a payment proposal is made, the you need to advise your friend that the statutory regulations state that in EVERY such case it is necessary for the enforcement agent to make a personal visit to ascertain that there are no goods available. This is only applicable to High Court debts and is because the Enforcement Agent has a personal obligation to the creditor and accordingly, he has a duty to report back to the creditor what the position is regarding the debtors assets etc. That personal visit attracts an Enforcement Fee of £190 plus vat .

 

The following is a copy of the statutory Explanatory Memorandum supporting the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014 and paragraph 7.3 states as follows:

 

The fee structure for High Court cases also introduces an incentive to enter into, and adhere to, an affordable controlled goods agreement. Unless a debtor pays in full at the compliance stage, the enforcement agent is obliged to visit the debtor in every High Court case in order to take control of goods, thereby triggering the first enforcement stage. If the enforcement agent is then unable to enter into a controlled goods agreement (and has to take control of goods in another manner) or a debtor defaults on a controlled goods agreement, the enforcement agent will be under an obligation to remove goods and therefore the second enforcement stage fee will also apply.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1/pdfs/uksiem_20140001_en.pdf

[tony3x]

Thanks BA.

As the CCJ & NOE are in his company name does that mean they could only take company assets.

 

He is a one man band builder, his only company assets are his van and his tools. He currently lodges with a friend as he is going through a separation (probably lead to divorce). The address on the NOE is his friends house.

 

Also, if he makes a payment arrangement could he still apply for a set aside (if it is possible). He does not dispute that he owes some monies but disputes the amount.

 

When the judgement was originally made he called the solicitor to offer up a payment solution. He offered x upfront and y monthly and was told this would be acceptable, this was on a friday. On the monday he called to make the initial payment, which the solicitor took but was then told the monthly payment was not acceptable so he has not done anything since. Stupidly he did not get the written confirmation of the original acceptance. Also, despite numerous requests, he has never received a receipt for the initial payment he made.

 

He realises that he should have dealt with this at the time but was a little to trusting which, added to his marriage break up, meant that he has not quite been on the ball for some time.

 

Thanks for your time.

[Bailiff Advice]

Thanks BA.

 

Also, if he makes a payment arrangement could he still apply for a set aside (if it is possible). He does not dispute that he owes some monies but disputes the amount.

 

He realises that he should have dealt with this at the time but was a little to trusting which, added to his marriage break up, meant that he has not quite been on the ball for some time. Thanks for your time.

 

He COULD apply for a 'set aside' but it should be pointed out that courts are really starting to clamp down on this applications given that many times, the N244 is submitted purely in order to halt further enforcement. The deciding factor is whether there is a sufficiently good enough defence to the actual debt itself.

[Bailiff Advice]

Thanks BA.

As the CCJ & NOE are in his company name does that mean they could only take company assets.

 

He is a one man band builder, his only company assets are his van and his tools. He currently lodges with a friend as he is going through a separation (probably lead to divorce). The address on the NOE is his friends house.

 

Thanks for your time.

 

The enforcement agent can only take control of goods that actually belong to the debtor. There are some exemptions...one being that a vehicle for self employment is considered exempt if its value is below £1,350. This figure is generally considered to be a 'trade' value.

 

What is the position with his vehicle?

 

Is it on finance?

 

How much roughly is it worth?

 

Is it sign written?

[mikeymack2002]

I have always valued your advice Grumpy but on this point I have to disagree.

 

There are at least three different legislations that state that unless the contrary is proved.....that the registered keeper is assumed to be the owner.

 

 

Lets look at this another way..

 

 

Motability own the vehicle and the driver is the registered keeper so that rule does not apply sorry to say

[tony3x]

He COULD apply for a 'set aside' but it should be pointed out that courts are really starting to clamp down on this applications given that many times, the N244 is submitted purely in order to halt further enforcement. The deciding factor is whether there is a sufficiently good enough defence to the actual debt itself.

 

The action is from his accountant. He has paid his fees every year and was then told that they needed to do a more in depth set of accounts for 2 years (probably an audit). He was told a figure of x so agreed the work could be done, this was all verbal. When the work was done he was invoiced for figure x for each year. I have seen the accounts and to be honest they do not seem any different to what a normal set of accounts look like (i see many through my job). So the fact is he does not dispute that he owes some monies, just the amount.

 

He knows that he should have dealt with this earlier but cannot change that now. He was also prepared to set up a payment plan which was ultimately refused. He has now moved area so work is very slow as he is building up again so spare capital is at a premium.

[tony3x]

The enforcement agent can only take control of goods that actually belong to the debtor. There are some exemptions...one being that a vehicle for self employment is considered exempt if its value is below £1,350. This figure is generally considered to be a 'trade' value.

 

What is the position with his vehicle?

 

Is it on finance?

 

How much roughly is it worth?

 

Is it sign written?

 

As far as I know there is no finance on the van. It is sign written and probably worth £2-3 K.

[ploddertom]

Doess the vehicle belong to the Ltd Co or him personally?

[tony3x]

Doess the vehicle belong to the Ltd Co or him personally?

 

Company

[ploddertom]

In that case the vehicle will be at risk. Unfortunately it is now too late for him to dispose of it. He needs to keep it well away.

[tony3x]

If he parks round the corner could they still take it as it is sign written. If so he could remove the sign writing. Also by taking his van he is then unable to work so what is the point, and what would happen to the tools etc he keeps in the van?

 

Ultimately he wants to resolve this but feels he has been misled by his accountant.

[ploddertom]

If it is sign written then that is as good as putting a "come & get me" on it. Is it one of these where you remove the sign writing that you can still see what was there, if made on a panel then that may be worth a try. Don't forget the accountant may have advised the HCEO about the van. Whether he has been misled or not is another argument it is more important to try and address what happens next.

 

Normally I would suggest trying to make a claim for a Stay of Execution to prevent further enforcement and/or charges. This time He may have a job doing that as he has known for some time about the outstanding debt and imagine a Judge will do the same and refuse the application. As others have mentioned it may be better to file for a Variation Order but would suggest it be payable within say 6 months. Providing it is kept up with then everything should be OK.

[tony3x]

If it is sign written then that is as good as putting a "come & get me" on it. Is it one of these where you remove the sign writing that you can still see what was there, if made on a panel then that may be worth a try. Don't forget the accountant may have advised the HCEO about the van. Whether he has been misled or not is another argument it is more important to try and address what happens next.

 

Normally I would suggest trying to make a claim for a Stay of Execution to prevent further enforcement and/or charges. This time He may have a job doing that as he has known for some time about the outstanding debt and imagine a Judge will do the same and refuse the application. As others have mentioned it may be better to file for a Variation Order but would suggest it be payable within say 6 months. Providing it is kept up with then everything should be OK.

 

Thanks,

Looking up 'variation order', this may be an option as his income is currently quite low. The original claim was for £3200 (plus int @ 8%), which is strange as the invoices are for £3600. The CCJ is for £3536 (inc costs), he then paid approx £400 to the solicitor with an offer of £100pm until work picks up, This was declined and they requested £280pm. The next thing was the NOE for £3578. As this is on the company would the affordability be taken from the company funds as at the moment there is very little going through.

[tony3x]

To add, we have another friend that is a signwriter and could do some new graphics to replace the current ones.

[tony3x]

Just found out that there is finance owing on the van. Approx £3000 o/s on a value of approx £10k. Shows what I know about van values.

 

Is it worth him contacting the HEO today to try to arrange payment plan or should he tell them that he will be applying for a variation order.

 

Thanks

[ploddertom]

If hedecides to go for the Variation then there is no need to tell nyone. There is no guarantee that an application will succeeed as any I&E will have to support it. On top of that will be the fact the Judgment will have been to pay Forthwith & some Judges can be reluctant to let you pay in instalments.

 

You mention making an arrangement with the HCEO. This is a possibility but he should be asking the Claimant if they accept - if they have alreday turned an offer down it may not succeed. Also the HCEO to abide by the conditions of the Writ will need to attend to take Control of Goods so should he default then the Goods can be removed. They will also charge him for doing this.

 

If a repayment via the HCEO is taken he must also bear in mind that any payments made will be shared. Say he pays £200 per month it could be only £120 gets passed over the remainder going to fees + interest continues to be added. It is a very difficult situation to be in.