Pcn vehicle control office ltd

[8rlarus]

Good evening,

 

I'm new to this site.

My other half got the PCN for the alleged breach of terms and cons of use of the privately operated access roads at robin hood airport, approach roads.

The reason is stopping on roads where stopping is prohibited.

The OH says there were no signs or road markings and the bit where he was parked is a small slip road off a roundabout that didn't lead anywhere.

It's not a car park, and I'm unsure what they're referring to as 'controlled area'.

 

As I wasn't in the car I'm not 100% about the signs, etc.

 

Is there a point to waste time and appeal, as I won't be driving all they way to robin hood airport just to check if the signs are there.

 

Any information and help will be much appreciated.

 

I'm aware the PCN can be enforced if it ends up in county court. I don't have the time and the money to allow it to go that far

[i hate bailiffs]

 

I'm aware the PCN can be enforced if it ends up in county court. I don't have the time and the money to allow it to go that far

They can also be beaten you are a way of court may not even go that far

 

Send them a soft appeal whatever you like as they will reject it

Then appeal through POPLA

if however you don't have the time to deal with this and want a peacefully life

Pay the invoice now

[8rlarus]

Hi, I was under the impression VCS are a member of IPC, so i'll have to send my appeal to them. Am I wrong?

Has anyone done a similar appeal recently and what was the outcome?

[armadillo71]

It is not relevant land for the POFA to apply. There is nokeeper liability.

 

Stopping is also not parking...

[8rlarus]

Ok, can somebody please clarify, where do I take the case after the 'soft' appeal is rejected?

If POPLA isn't offered, what do I do then?

VCS' s letter states if I'm not satisfied I should complaint to IPC.

[armadillo71]

Ok, can somebody please clarify, where do I take the case after the 'soft' appeal is rejected?

If POPLA isn't offered, what do I do then?

VCS' s letter states if I'm not satisfied I should complaint to IPC.

 

 

You are the RK then as you have received the NTK?

 

You write to VCS and state;

 

That as registered keeper you are not liable for the charge.

 

You were not the driver at the time of the event and you will not be naming the driver.

 

Any further correspondence from VCS, other than confirmation of cancellation of the charge, will be treated as harassment and dealt with accordingly.

 

 

 

Ignore any other threatograms and debt collector letters, but not a lba from VCS... ( which you won't get as VCS have too much to lose.)

 

Send all letters to any PPC with free proof of postage.

[8rlarus]

OK, thanks guys.

Can somebody please read through this and let me know if it's good to go?

 

I’m the registered keeper of a ..... registration number .........

On 25 June 2015 I received a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) from Vehicle Control Services Ltd (VCS) for allegedly breaching terms and conditions of use of the Privately Operated Access Roads at Robin Hood Airport, Approach Roads.

 

I appeal the PCN based on the following points:

 

1. The parking company or their client require planning consent to charge motorists for any alleged contravention- please forward the evidence of such consent.

 

2. The parking company has to have a contract with the landowner that permits them to levy charges on motorists up to pursuit of these charges through the courts.- Please forward a copy the such contract between you and Peel Airports Limited.

 

3. The signage on site was not compliant with the British Parking Association standards and here was no valid contract between the parking company and the driver. - Please provide the photographic evidence of your described signage on site entrance and other ‘prominent’ places you’re referring to. Please also provide the evidence your said signage was compliant with the British Parking Association standards at the time of the alleged contravention.

 

4. The amount demanded is not a Genuine Pre-estimate of loss.- The entirety of the parking charge must be a genuine pre-estimate of loss in order to be enforceable. I require the parking company to submit a breakdown of how these costs are calculated. All of these costs must represent a loss resulting from the alleged breach at the time.

5. Keeper Liability Requirements and the Protection of Freedom Act

 

As keeper of the vehicle, I decline, as is my right to provide the name of the driver of the vehicle at the time in question. As the parking company have neither named the driver nor provided any evidence as to who the driver was I submit that I am not liable to any charge.

 

Should you choose to reject the appeal and contact me again, I expect you to enclose the following documents:

 

A copy of your contract with the land owner which authorises you to act on their behalf in the management of this car parking area.

A copy of the contract which you allege the drive entered in to when allegedly stooped on access road.

Photographic evidence of the actual signs in situ, together with identification of the locations around the site where these signs are currently placed. Please also confirm the date when the photographs were taken (if not evident from the photographs themselves) and whether you have made any alterations to the signage since the photograph was taken.

 

A copy of the full terms and conditions for use of the land where the driver allegedly stopped.

A copy of your certificate of membership of the BPA/IPC.

A copy of your protocol which your enforcement and CCTV operators are required to follow.

A copy of your standard appeal procedure and confirm whether or not it complies with the Arbitration Act 1996.

Full details of the owner of the parking area (if it is not already stated in the copy contract above) as I wish to send them a copy of my letter to you.

A copy of all of the images that you have of my vehicle. I understand that the Data Protection Act entitles me to all of this information.

A copy of your protocol for handling personal data such as images of my vehicle. I assume that such data is not disclosed to any third party (other than POPLA in the event of an appeal) but please confirm this.

Please provide this information within 35 days of receipt. If you are unable to provide any of the requested documents please provide a reason for each omission.

If you choose to pursue me please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only letter you will receive from me until you answer the specific points raised in my letter.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Any changes or suggestions?

 

Will post it on Monday.

 

Thanks

[zydeco]

they will reject anything you send so why bother with all that?

 

just say as the registered keeper you are not liable for the charge and if they do not cancel it demand a copy of their appeals procedure.

save anything else for later.

[armadillo71]

Post 6 is all you need to send.

 

There is no keeper liability as it is not relevant land for the POFA to apply, but they are not claiming it anyway.

[8rlarus]

Right,

 

sent the appeal and a complaint letter to Peel Management head office. Both by signed for delivery.

Will let you know when the rejection letters come in.

[8rlarus]

Hi all, got the rejection letter this morning-

a very detailed one. Or may be just a standard one, not seen one before. Will post a copy in a minute, please approve uploads.

Can somebody please review it and let me know if they're correct in their reply and post a link or a copy to a recent IAS appeal relevant to airport private roads.

I see they ignored most of question asked as 'not appropriate to deal with at this stage'....

[8rlarus]

Here you are. Checked a copy of the original letter sent-I didn't reference POPLA.

[Bazooka Boo]

You need to load them up as PDF's not Jpegs.

[ericsbrother]

A recent IAS appeal? dont make me laugh, it will have no stnading in law so they can forget that one. By all means appeal to the iAS as they are likely to do the parking co more harm than good when considering this one.

Make your appeal on the same grounds, not relevant land so PoFA keeper liability is not there. They are bound to relpy saying that it does or you were the driver and when they do post up the decision so we can offer some derision.

[8rlarus]

sorry, got them converted to pdfs now

so what's the verdict? is it a standard fob off letter?

Any point to appeal?

[ericsbrother]

well, they are wrong in law to continue as they are but the IPC will advise that they are right and then cost them money when they take the matter to court and lose. They also mention Beavis when they know that iit is being appealed at the supreme court so that could end up as a contempt of court claim against them if they want to carry on that way.

Utterly stupid of them to want to fight this battle but I would appeal to the IPC using the argumants you have (not relevant land and no keeper liability) and let them hang themselves. The IPC is likely to make a decision that goes against you but mangles the points of law giving a false impression of its legitimacy. When this happens most of the parking companies then use the IPC parent company, Gladstones solicitors as a Debt Collection Agency to try and enforce the decision and end up losing even more moeny to these incompetent clowns. Rarely will it end up in a claim because of the flaws in the procedures and the abuse of process not to forget the wrong assumptions and statements.

[8rlarus]

Thank you.

I'm trying to find a copy of the Doncaster byelaws - the most recent one is from 2005, so hope it hasn't been changed. All links on relevant forums return 404 not found.

I also want to prove the contractual charge method doesn't apply, as the signs are inadequate for anyone to read them from a moving vehicle, i.e. you couldn't have accepted terms and conditions.

 

Also, if I submit my appeal this week, how long does it all take from start to finish. I'm going away for 2 wks mid august.

Cheers.

[8rlarus]

Has anyone got any recent pictures of their road signs?

There're quite a few online (obscured by the flags or other signs, etc), but I'm unsure if they've moved since.

[ericsbrother]

It wont matter because it is not relevent land and that is the critical point as far as VCS's claim is concerned. They will tell you that the moon is made of cheese but it isnt. Again, the signage is irrelevant as they cant form a contract with you so the wording of any contract is meaningless. They have no say whatsoever in the matter so stop trying to calculate how many angels can dance on a pin head.

The airport owners could possible have you prosecuted under the byelaws (as said cant find one you have broken) but these bandits have nothing tio do with that either.

your appeal should just say that the airport usage is covered by byelaws and is not "relevant land" so VCS canot claim anything. Dont go into any detail as the IPC wont listen and it will be a waste of ink. That is why th parking companies are joining this discredited organisation, they dont let the punters win but it doesnt mean you have to pay up.

[armadillo71]

All you had to write was that as RK you were not liable and were not the driver...

 

 

The Donny byelaws seem to have disappeared, so some digging needs to be done for further reference.

 

 

This is what I did find;

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/354/pdfs/uksi_20050354_en.pdf

[armadillo71]

I have just read VCSs response and they state that you have confirmed that you were the driver??

[8rlarus]

Most certainly haven't, I sent them the same letter I posted here. I've just read it again, can't seem to find where they're saying I admitted to it?

[armadillo71]

Most certainly haven't, I sent them the same letter I posted here. I've just read it again, can't seem to find where they're saying I admitted to it?

 

Very first paragraph PDF1.

[8rlarus]

I've not admitted to it! Grr... This makes my blood boil! I found a very recent thread on money saving expert about the appeal. the rk appeal was based on relevance , she quoted airport byelaws- I managed to find 2005 copy, signage, preestimated loss etc.the appeal was rejected , will copy it in when I'm home later tonight . Just shows how unbiased they are

[Vondoothoven]

8rlarus, have a gander at my thread - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?436297-Waiting-for-PCN-from-VCS

 

I received a PCN in November last year from Venomous Cash Suckers at Liverpool airport last November. I hadn't a clue what to do at the time and followed the great advice from the guys on here, especially Ericsbrother.

 

A big tip is not to supply a phone number when asked to on your online IAS appeal - just type in 00000000000. When your appeal is rejected by them, they have no phone number to pass onto the debt collectors.

 

Yes, the D.C. letters will come and will try and bully and intimidate you into paying by but they have no absolutely no power whatsoever.

 

Good luck and keep the faith!