Dwp review

[Stupid mistake]

Hi

I wonder if anyone can help, been really stupid and moved in with partner in 2012, I was due to move in in 2009 but at last minute bf changed his mind, all mail was set up to come to his address, doc registered at his address etc.

 

BF was claiming widowers pension and CTC for his 2 children, getting rent and council tax paid, I was working but neither one of us claimed for our child together my wage was £700, I had a large amount of debts car loan credit card etc so all my wage was used up on my debts.

 

We have had letter from DWP saying they believe us to be living as a couple from 2009 because I used address for child benefit. We have contacted them to advise that I was living with my mum, but as she lives in a caravan park I used his address for my mail, they have said to get a letter from my mum to confirm this. However since all mail is for his address, I was registered at doctor etc I don't see how they will believe it as I wouldnt.

 

They said not to worry about prison fraud etc etc but don't believe them, if they decide they don't believe us and that we were living together from 2009 and that we have to pay money back do they take into account what we should have got if we had claimed together ?

 

sorry if I doesn't make sense, we claim ctc now as partner works full time and I am 7 months pregnant so this is really worrying me.

Thanks in advance for replies

Edited March 1, 2015 by Stupid mistake

[mikeymack2002]

Hi welcome to CAG

 

Can you please edit your post and put in some paragraphs to make it easier to read

[mikeymack2002]

Did you claim correctly in the first place then did not put in a change of circumstances to the DWP?

[Stupid mistake]

Hi

Sorry I have edited my post to hopefully make more sense,

We didn't claim together or advise them I moved in till 2012, they say because I used the address from 2009 I moved in then and that I used it as a residential address not correspondence address, I didn't realise there was a difference.

[mikeymack2002]

Many people have their mail sent to a different address for personal reasons or whatever, the question/s that may be asked is what was the date you ACTUALLY moved in together and did you inform DWP/CT/HB of the change in circumstances?

 

 

I have recently put a thread together on this subject and is informative. Its up to you if you want to read it. You can see here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?442050-Benefit-fraud-what-is-the-future-(2-Viewing)-nbsp

 

 

You have stated that you did move in on such a date, on that date or very soon after doing so did you inform the relevant departments you had done so? If not why not? Also they can now and do checks with the BANKS/CRA's/and many more areas to find out more information as to when you both did start to live together.

 

 

In paragraph 3 you state that the DWP believe that you were living together is there any proof of this? It can be via credit/banks/utilities and so on? Can you easily explain why you had your mail sent to your partners address and not living there? Can you provide the investigator any proof of your own utility/bank/bills at your own address and not your partners?

 

 

Is there anything in the recent past that will show that you were living separately/together? Like joint accounts or joint credit agreements and things like this? If you was living away from your partner were you paying CT at your own home address if so this will help, but if your stopped paying your CT around this time it will look like you did move in with him, can you see the picture forming now?

 

 

Sorry to ask these questions but it will be harder to advise you if you can not provide the answers ok?

[Stupid mistake]

Hi

 

Thanks for your reply, from the information you kindly supplied the situation looks bleak, I don't have any proof I wasn't living with BF, I was staying there more than I probably should and I guess to all intents and purposes I was living there just that I was barely earning enough to cover my debts I didn't contribute to paying his bills.

We are not being investigated yet, they have just reviewed his claim. I guess at the time I just thought since he was getting the same money we would of got if we claimed jointly we wernt getting anymore than we were entitled too, yes I agree that's stupid and naive.

If we just admit yes I did move in is that admitting to fraud? Do we have to pay back the entire amount he received ? Would they look at what we would have received in benefits based on my wage and would we have to pay back the difference?

Feel so stupid, thanks for your help

[mikeymack2002]

If it is the case that you did in fact move in to your BF's home and failed to notify a change of circumstances in a RESONABLE period of time i.e. the next time you/he signed on then maybe you have left yourself open to an investigation. I cannot say one way or another.

 

The different agencies willl probably look at his claim and decide if the desion not to declare the of the changes of circumstances was a deliberate act by one or both of you. This could cause both of you issues now and in the future. This could result in many different ways for the departments to reclaim any/all overpayments from you both. As far as repaying what you "took" that will be up to the DWP/Local Authority (LA).

 

They can and do reclaim over payments from current/future benefits. It will depend on the amount involved as to what action the relevant departments take. It could be a caution or other, you will now have to wait and see what they intend on doing now or what YOU/BOTH do from now on. You may have done something wrong, but that is not for us to decide about that will be the decision of the DWP/LA. As far as coming "clean" that is for you both to talk about and come to a decision on what you do next.

 

The other thing you may have to watch out for is if your former home was Social Housing, if so last year i think there was an new law introducted called the Prevention of Social Housing Fraud Act 2013. This normally deals with sub letting but can be used if you have a Social housing home and do not live there. There are normally rules in your tenancy agreement that you do not leave the property un-lived in for more than a certian period of time, normally 28 days continuosly within the space of 1 year. Also whilst in receipt of benefits you should and must declare any and all changes in circumstances that may change the amount of money you receive.

 

As far as "getting the same money" have you thought if you had an income of £700.00 per month then you as a couple may have been entitled to less benefits, but may have been able to claim other help?

[Stupid mistake]

Mickey

Thank you for taking your time to reply I do appreciate it.

I wasn't claiming any benefits for my daughter although I would have been entitled to ctc for her.

I was living with parents rent free but used his address as she is unable to receive mail where she lives.

He was claiming just for him and his children,when working out the overpayment do they take into account what we were entitled to if we were claiming as a couple, from using various websites today we would have still been entitled to full rent being paid and most of our council tax as well as CTC and wtc.

[mikeymack2002]

If you look at it this way if you were entitled you should have applied. but, it is always easy to say after the fact isn't it? Have a read of this attachment and let us know what you think of the contents please. It is a PDF so you can just click on it to view it ok!

[Stupid mistake]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, thank you for the link, in a nutshell we are going to be prosected, because we should have claimed properly.

[mikeymack2002]

Please slow down and take time to digest the information that is available I am about to post up so rules that could happen but may not..... it all depends on the "value" of the claim the amount of time and other circumstances ok? Like the amount of time whether or not it was deliberate or dishonest and so on.. Have a chat with the BF and see what way you want to proceed with this next see below other options available to the DWP. There are many other options open to the DWP like sanctions of benefits and more.....

 

 

Either Way offences under Social Security Administration Act 1992

 

For the purpose of obtaining benefit or another payment:

 

• section 111A(1)(a) SSAA 1992 - dishonestly making a false representation
  
• section 111A(1)(b) SSAA 1992 - dishonestly producing or furnishing a false document/information or knowingly causing or allowing a false document/information to be produced or furnished
  
• section 111A(1A) SSAA 1992 - dishonestly failing to promptly notify a change in circumstances
  
• section 111A(1B) SSAA 1992 - dishonestly causing or allowing a person to promptly fail to notify a change in circumstances
  
• section 111A(1D) SSAA 1992 - the benefit recipient dishonestly failing to promptly notify a change in circumstances
  
• section 111A(1E) SSAA 1992 - a person other than the benefit recipient dishonestly causing or allowing the benefit recipient to promptly fail to notify a change in circumstances
  

The maximum penalty for an offence under section 111A of the SSAA 1992 on summary conviction is a term of imprisonment for six months' imprisonment, or on indictment seven years' imprisonment.

 

 

Having seen so many cases before the Courts recently and the penalties issued there are very scary but each case has it own unique set of parameters.....

 

 

Going back to your last response it appears you both are very shocked at my replies and it has made you think about the position you now find yourselves in for that I am sorry. Ask yourself this would you rather get this mess sorted now or in the future when things are horribly difficult for you and your family.

 

 

Also please bear in mind this thread is about a "review" nothing more atm so with that in mind what are you both going to do now?

[Stupid mistake]

Your replies whilst helpful, have scared me in all honesty. My naivety is embarrassing.

Yes we need to sort this now, from looking at the information you have supplied a jail term could be applicable.

The length of time was 3 years, it wasn't to get more money, no lavish lifestyle no holidays etc, it was just getting by and giving me a chance to clear my debts.

I guess in a warped way which looking back now is ridiculous since we didn't claim for the correct benefits which would have financially put us in the same situation it didn't really feel like we were claiming any more than we were entitled to, yes I realise that sounds incredibly stupid now.

I am worried and yes we have no one to blame but ourselves but court and jail time mean potentially my BF losing his job and I'm guessing we then find ourselves with no job and no benefits.

[mikeymack2002]

Now you have had a thought now you need to just think what is best for your way forward. I did not intent to make you this worried but I do say things a little too bluntly for some people. Again for that I am sorry.

 

 

You may be lucky and nothing happens but now you can see what COULD happen. I wish you both the best of luck in your talking and make sure you abide by the rules in future please. If nothing happens consider this a close shave ok....

 

 

The best thing now is to talk with your BF and decide what you want to do. When this is finally cleared up it would be nice if you can post up the results for us to see and what if any action has ben taken by the DWP please....

[Stupid mistake]

No you haven't been blunt I asked for advice and that's just what you have given me, we have worked hard to get ourselves out of debt, working and claiming properly so this will never happen again.

I'm not sure what is the way forward however,

[mikeymack2002]

Personally I would get the BF to get the claim in order asap and hope this is sorted for you. But again that is for you both to decide ok.....

 

 

Always run the benefits advisor from the DWP and then see what is available to claim then do it that way.

 

 

as far as your debts go we on CAG can and do help in that field as well see here

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?163-Debt-Action-Group

 

 

All you do is list the debts you have in that forum provide the information and like on here we will do all we can to give you the advice you may need ok.....

[Stupid mistake]

He is no longer claiming the benefit they are reviewing and hasn't since 2013. He now works full time and we only claim CTC so that is up to date.

Thanks for link re debts, I have one credit card debt which is being paid so we are ok on that as well.

 

He will be contacting them tomorrow, it's just knowing what to say, is yes I messed up I'm sorry can we work out what I owe and how to pay it back enough to avoid prosecution? That's what's scares me

[mikeymack2002]

For a lay person to work out what benefits you were entitled to can be difficult, even the DWP get this wrong.

 

As far as a prosecution goes that decsion will be up to the DWP, please bear in mind the amount of time and the amount of money involved will let them decide what if any thing happens.

 

Not a scare tactic here but have a look at some cases that have been prosecuted and what the sentances were for that, you will need to go here and scroll through the site and find the appropriate news story see here http://www.scoop.it/t/lacef-news

[Stupid mistake]

Thanks for Link, but I can't read it, It's too scary. I'm 7 months pregnant I can't sleep or eat.

[mikeymack2002]

Please stop this worrying it will do neither of you any good now i feel awful having given you the information.

 

But it was the right thing to do so i hope you will relax and think of your health and let this settle to the back of your mind or a while

[Stupid mistake]

Please don't feell bad, I asked for advice and you were kind enough to help. Thanks

[mikeymack2002]

don't forget to update your thread once this is sorted so other poster with the same issue can follow what has happened and what the result was

 

 

Thx MM