PCN issued by Oldham Council

[rennai]

Hi All

 

I was issued with PCN on 03/02/15, Code 01 Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.

 

Location is Wall Street, Oldham OL8 1DD.

 

I didn't park on Yellow Line, I parked beside a car in front of Kebab shop where the Double Yellow Line ended,

and none of my wheel touched Yellow Line but I parked somewhat at the middle of the road

(it is not a very wide road which may be reason CEO issued ticket).

I (and other residents) of the street always park at same location without problem,

that's why I was really surprise to receive this PCN.

 

Some of Yellow Line are faded or illegible on side of road where I parked my car, but clear on the other side of the road.

 

Perusing the PCN I noticed that CEO didn't note any observation time

(so it seems no observation or grace period of at least 5 minutes was given before ticketing),

because Observed from time was omitted in said PCN.

 

I wish to appeal this fine, so any advice/hints/suggestions would be greatly appreciated with thanks.

 

]

 

....

[dx100uk]

hi ya

 

 

you'll need to pdf the pix for us to see them please

pop them all in a word doc first

then PDF that and attach it via the bottom right go advanced button

 

 

dx

[rennai]

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.536328,-2.112344,3a,75y,231.4h,63.46t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1syHhT1M0ubFULpVWUwGmtOg!2e0

 

Hi dx100uk,

 

May be Google Street View would give a better/clearer idea of where I parked.

 

If you click on GSV above, my car is silver coloured car beside/adjacent to red car in front of Neelam's Cafe (Kebab shop).

 

Cheers

[Jamberson]

Code 01 is usually for yellow lines, which apply from the edge of the building right up to the middle of the road. You can be as far away from the kerb as you like but still be "on" the yellow lines.

 

Whether you fell foul of them on this occasion depends on the exact position of your car, relative to the end point of the lines. Can you get a photo taken by the CEO, which shows this?

 

If the wheels are not in line with the yellow lines (like in Street View), I think you can challenge it. If they are in line, then I don't...

 

Can you post an image from the actual day, or check one and let us know.

[rennai]

Thanks Jamberson,

 

Unlike Manchester City Council, the Oldham City Council website I checked does not have any photo taken by CEO, that's strange. I'll try to find any picture of the actual day and post it here.

 

Secondly, the CEO didn't put down any time of observation (i.e. observed from time was left vacant on the PCN), could I use that as another ground of appeal?

[rennai]

more

[Jamberson]

Yes you could, if the car is "on" the yellow line. You are entitled to an observation period (usually a few minutes) and that would be the line of appeal I'd suggest.

 

But if you aren't "on" the yellow line, you can ignore that issue completely and appeal on the basis that the wrong contravention was used. He could have ticketed you for parking too far away from the kerb, but he didn't.

 

Maybe try phoning the council and ask if they will email you the photos?

[rennai]

Hello Guys,

 

I've just found CEO contravention photos showing exact location, time and nearness to YL.

 

Any comment will be appreciated. Cheers

[Jamberson]

Further to my last comment, I've just seen the photos. Looks to me like you are at least partly on the right-hand side of the road, in which case you are subject to the restriction on that side. There are double yellow lines, so I think that contravention code would stand. (Anyone else got a view on that?)

 

If so, then the lack of observation time would be the best line of appeal.

[rennai]

Hello Everyone,

 

Update about this post please, any help would be greatly appreciated. I received rejection for challenged PCN yesterday. Rejection letter back dated 23/02/15, so I think discounted charge period should count from yesterday i.e. expiring 12/03/15.

 

Please see rejection letter below and comments please:

 

informal Challenge

 

 

sent 16 February 2015

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

The alleged contravention did not occur. I buttress this assertion with attached (included) pictorial evidence and the following points:

 

(a) I never parked on or inline (on the side it is marked) with Yellow Line(s)/road markings on Wall Street (i.e. none of the wheels of said car touched or were on any Yellow Line), as in said electronic evidence.

 

(b) It is obvious from pictorial evidence that I parked in front of Neelam's Cafe main door (about a metre from end of Double Yellow Lines TSRGD drawing 1018.1); said Neelam's Cafe is a landmark and its door is on-street reference point which defines the exact location of where aforementioned car was parked.

 

© The road markings/Yellow Line(s) beyond said reference point in (b) are badly faded, illegible and do not conform to correct, statutory standard specified by The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions TSRGD 2002.

 

(d) From Google Street View (GSV) link below it does not appear that where I parked is covered by Double Yellow Lines.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.536328,-2...#33;6m1!1e1

 

It makes one to presume the location is not covered by a CPZ.

 

(e) No observation or grace period was given or allowed prior to issuing of PCN ticket, as evident on the issued PCN ticket (observed from time no indicated).

 

(f) On the day of alleged contravention, I parked 'briefly' to unload shopping stuff from car to my house, however upon returning to said car to move off I was surprise to see PCN ticket on the windscreen.

 

(g) Cars are always parked where I parked and, I have parked there severally myself without any issue of parking contravention notice by CEO. Even as I am writing this letter cars are parked on same location.

 

In view of foregoing, I humbly request the Parking Administration staff in charge to consider above points and cancel issued PCN ticket.

[dx100uk]

ideally you need to PDF pix etc before you attach them

 

 

some pix are not showing now

[rennai]

Morning All,

 

Rejection letter attached, any comments, thoughts, advice, etc would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[rennai]

Done, thanks

 

 

ideally you need to PDF pix etc before you attach them

 

 

some pix are not showing now

[Jamberson]

It's a bit frustrating to be honest. I went over the evidence and images etc, pointed out that you appear to be on the yellow lines to the right, and advised you appeal on the lack of observation times. Post 9 above.

 

You started your appeal, "I never parked on or inline (on the side it is marked) with Yellow Line(s)" (which, incidentally, doesn't make much sense - but we get your drift).

 

It's a shame because the gamble is now against the higher rate of charge, if you decide to fight on. I still think the odds are in your favour, but I can't guarantee you will win. My understanding is that you are entitled to an observation period, and the fact that they didn't give one might invalidate the PCN. It's now a gamble - before it would have been no gamble at all, just a letter to that effect, and see what they say.

 

Up to you - if you do decide to fight on, I suggest you drop all the stuff about faded lines, other people parking there, and phrases like "said electronic device" and "I buttress this assertion".

 

Just tell them in simple language - you were not given an observation time, which you are entitled to, and you were in the process of unloading goods.

 

I hope someone else can chip in on this thread and help, because I can't add anything more to what I've already said.

[rennai]

It's a bit frustrating to be honest. I went over the evidence and images etc, pointed out that you appear to be on the yellow lines to the right, and advised you appeal on the lack of observation times. Post 9 above.

 

You started your appeal, "I never parked on or inline (on the side it is marked) with Yellow Line(s)" (which, incidentally, doesn't make much sense - but we get your drift).

 

It's a shame because the gamble is now against the higher rate of charge, if you decide to fight on. I still think the odds are in your favour, but I can't guarantee you will win. My understanding is that you are entitled to an observation period, and the fact that they didn't give one might invalidate the PCN. It's now a gamble - before it would have been no gamble at all, just a letter to that effect, and see what they say.

 

Up to you - if you do decide to fight on, I suggest you drop all the stuff about faded lines, other people parking there, and phrases like "said electronic device" and "I buttress this assertion".

 

Just tell them in simple language - you were not given an observation time, which you are entitled to, and you were in the process of unloading goods.

 

I hope someone else can chip in on this thread and help, because I can't add anything more to what I've already said.

 

 

thanks Jamberson

[rennai]

Hi Jamberson

 

On a second thought, I'm thinking of writing council back requesting for CEO's note to ascertain if observation done and for how long, what do you think?

 

From what I read it seems OBSERVE FROM TIME must not be written on PCN even if it was done, I may be wrong...

 

I actually mentioned lack of obs time in my informal challenge, however rejection letter didn't say anything about it, in fact not all points I raised were considered; is council not obliged to considered everything grounds I raised, and since they didn't, would that amount to Procedural Impropriety?

 

Please respond.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

It's a bit frustrating to be honest. I went over the evidence and images etc, pointed out that you appear to be on the yellow lines to the right, and advised you appeal on the lack of observation times. Post 9 above.

 

You started your appeal, "I never parked on or inline (on the side it is marked) with Yellow Line(s)" (which, incidentally, doesn't make much sense - but we get your drift).

 

It's a shame because the gamble is now against the higher rate of charge, if you decide to fight on. I still think the odds are in your favour, but I can't guarantee you will win. My understanding is that you are entitled to an observation period, and the fact that they didn't give one might invalidate the PCN. It's now a gamble - before it would have been no gamble at all, just a letter to that effect, and see what they say.

 

Up to you - if you do decide to fight on, I suggest you drop all the stuff about faded lines, other people parking there, and phrases like "said electronic device" and "I buttress this assertion".

 

Just tell them in simple language - you were not given an observation time, which you are entitled to, and you were in the process of unloading goods.

 

I hope someone else can chip in on this thread and help, because I can't add anything more to what I've already said.

[rennai]

Another person with experience should please reply. Cheers

[Jamberson]

Well, me again I'm afraid! The reason I'm not sure of the observation time is the manner in which you were parked. The observation period is to see if you were unloading, but it is possible an on-the-spot PCN could be issued if you are in the middle of the road. I don't know for sure.