We have no right to compalin about the NHS

[Conniff]

Baby's early arrival leaves parents stranded in New York for three months with £130,000 medical bill

 

 

A couple on a four-day trip to America have been stranded for three months after their baby was born prematurely.

Katie Amos, 30, went into labour during a New York sightseeing trip with fiance Lee Johnston, 29.

Only hours later their son Dax was born weighing just 3lb – 11 weeks before his due date.

Doctors said the baby will not be able to fly home to Britain until March...

 

 

Full Story

[think about it]

That's the bit that terrifies me, I'd hate to think over the last 5 years what sort of a bill we'd have at home right now:

 

1 live birth

1 Still birth

1 Emergency Gall Bladder removal

1 Colonoscopy

1 Post Mortem

Countless GP / Midwife / Consultant appointments

1 Funeral - NHS provide a basic funeral service for bereaved parents of still born children

3 full genetic analysis (as a part of the investigation into the still birth)

3 Emergency Department visits

6 Items of medication on repeat each month

 

I'm honestly guessing we'd have topped a £million by USA standards...

[postmn]

however i do think the nhs is so ineffecient that just throwing money at it doe snot work . Too many pen pushers and box ticking .

[renegadeimp]

Total misinformation there. The insurers have already said they will cover the bill completely and there's a donation drive to help them cover their rent and other expenses while they are away

[Sali]

We have every right to complain about the NHS or anything else. I am constantly irked when I hear some politician or another tell us that our this or that is the envy of the world. Apart from being impossible to prove it is a recipe for complacency. Improvement should always be seen as possible and strived for.

 

The only thing this story affirms to me is to make sure you have comprehensive insurance before travelling.

[renegadeimp]

They did. And a doctors letter and the insurers paid out in full.

[think about it]

however i do think the nhs is so ineffecient that just throwing money at it doe snot work . Too many pen pushers and box ticking .

 

You're right, we operate under such scrutiny and regulation that you can't expect clinical staff to stay abreast of the CQC's latest hair-brained plan to regulate the type of seats in the waiting area or the colour of the single-use curtains around beds on wards. The NHS has changed, significantly. We only tick boxes the government tell us that we have to tick, we only push our pens over paperwork that yet again requires hours of work to claim a small slice of funding that's absolutely crucial to maintain patient services. The government and regulators have created a self-serving monster that as they introduce yet more schemes requires yet more non-clinical work to implement and manage.

 

This problem isn't solely based in the NHS either, hospitals are effectively funnels and when the spout gets blocked up, the neck overflows. As patients arrive in the ED they're waiting on a bed that's still occupied by the person before them, that person is waiting on the place in a social care establishment or for home carers to facilitate their discharge and the person before them is subjected to waning levels of care due to government cuts in social care budgets given to local authorities. Of course, while all this is happening, more ambulances are arriving and those patients in the ambulance are waiting for the bed that the first person has just taken.

 

Inefficiencies in that flow of patients from admission to treatment to discharge and onto appropriate social care impact greatest on the point of entry, if the drain is blocked then the sink overflows...

 

The issue of lack of places to discharge people to is so great that our local health board has just re-opened a ward in a local hospital solely for patients awaiting places in residential / nursing homes and / or for home care. A whole ward, staff, managers, doctors and ancilliary staff dedicated to looking after patients well enough to be discharged because of the failiure of council and community based services to deal with the demand.

 

You're right, chucking money at a problem doesn't solve it. What does solve it is ensuring that EVERY stage of the patients' journey is correctly resourced and not just pointing the blame at an ED that can't move its patients through that flow due to blockages at the other end.

[think about it]

Just out of interest, I ended up having to attend our local A&E yesterday following an injury that having been checked by a GP, required a more specialist opinion.

 

You know what; yes it was busy, yes I had to wait for a few hours but when I was called through everyone I spoke with was courteous and polite, I was treated with care and precision and in the matter of 4.5 hours in total, I had been seen and treated by a specialist consultant and suitably dosed up and sent on my way. The best of it was, that all I owed those people at the end was a smile and a handshake. The very thought of being charged thousands of pounds for someone to look at me, hundreds for the medication I was sent away with and then having an insurance company breathing down my neck over pre-existing conditions and exclusions terrifies me.

 

The NHS might have its shortcomings but the alternative sends me cold...

[Sparks_]

I wish there was a way of finding out how long the waiting list is for surgery, I need surgery that covers 2 separate specialties and have waited 6 months already!

[think about it]

There is, speak with your GP practice manager. I've spoken to two patients today and called the consultant on their behalf to get a better idea of what to expect in terms of a wait. Likewise we also get quarterly stats on average wait times.

 

Good luck with your op

[Sparks_]

There is, speak with your GP practice manager. I've spoken to two patients today and called the consultant on their behalf to get a better idea of what to expect in terms of a wait. Likewise we also get quarterly stats on average wait times.

 

Good luck with your op

 

Thanks

[Sparks_]

There is, speak with your GP practice manager. I've spoken to two patients today and called the consultant on their behalf to get a better idea of what to expect in terms of a wait. Likewise we also get quarterly stats on average wait times.

 

Good luck with your op

 

O did in the end speak to my Doc and he said they could contact the hospital for me, I had to do it myself which I did and got the abrupt reply...yes you are on the waiting list but we dont know how long you will have to wait! that was the end of June, got a phone call a week ago to say my operation will be on the 2nd of September....just 2 days over a year of waiting! Just hope they dont cancel, like they seem to do to many who are waiting

[Nystagmite]

Hope you get your operation soon.

 

I've had quite a few serious problems with the NHS over the years - failure to diagnose a few pretty serious medical conditions, one of which has left me with a brain injury. I'm still working out how someone managed to miss the fact that I have part of my brain missing or how my optic discs aren't the proper colour... (they're white, they're meant to be pink) I was a regular patient at the eye infirmary from the age of 5 months until I was 11 and then again from the age of 18 to about 19 or 20.

 

And then there was the receiptionist who phoned me to tell me I have an appointment with the midwife. I can't have children. Wrong person, apparently.

[think about it]

I think it's especially interesting for me being 'in the system' to experience it as a patient too. I've had my misgivings with care provided to me and my family in the past but still, I value the effort that goes into keeping the leviathan moving as I see it from both perspectives.

 

There's little excuse for substandard or poor care, but those that provide it are human too and subject to immense pressure and scrutiny. I won't get started on my views of what our esteemed health secretary has said in the last few days, nor what Ms. Vine and Michael Gove have spouted as let's be fair, I wouldn't clean my intimate areas with a copy of the DM, let alone take anything that one of it's reporters have to say as gospel other than to say that although Michael couldn't possibly waste his time at the 'pleasure of a radiographer', he was happy to wait for the photographer to arrive to capture a staged shot of him looking all forlorn. Funny really that he went to a minor injuries centre, which is run by a private company and is nurse led expecting to see a Doctor... Surely the clue is in the name, if you've had an accident then go to accident and emergency, if you're struggling to walk, don't go to a walk in centre.

 

Anyway, I digress, I'm currently receiving the attention of the local hospitals and one somewhat further afield as it's a centre of excellence in neurosurgery following a mishap of my own, I can only say that my experiences so far have been excellent, albeit uncomfortable at times and so far, based on american pricing I'm just over $100k worth of treatment and, I haven't had my surgery yet.

 

Don't be sucked in to the rhetoric by the government and popular press.

[BazzaS]

I think it's especially interesting for me being 'in the system' to experience it as a patient too. I've had my misgivings with care provided to me and my family in the past but still, I value the effort that goes into keeping the leviathan moving as I see it from both perspectives.

 

There's little excuse for substandard or poor care, but those that provide it are human too and subject to immense pressure and scrutiny. I won't get started on my views of what our esteemed health secretary has said in the last few days, nor what Ms. Vine and Michael Gove have spouted as let's be fair, I wouldn't clean my intimate areas with a copy of the DM, let alone take anything that one of it's reporters have to say as gospel other than to say that although Michael couldn't possibly waste his time at the 'pleasure of a radiographer', he was happy to wait for the photographer to arrive to capture a staged shot of him looking all forlorn. Funny really that he went to a minor injuries centre, which is run by a private company and is nurse led expecting to see a Doctor... Surely the clue is in the name, if you've had an accident then go to accident and emergency, if you're struggling to walk, don't go to a walk in centre.

 

Anyway, I digress, I'm currently receiving the attention of the local hospitals and one somewhat further afield as it's a centre of excellence in neurosurgery following a mishap of my own, I can only say that my experiences so far have been excellent, albeit uncomfortable at times and so far, based on american pricing I'm just over $100k worth of treatment and, I haven't had my surgery yet.

 

Don't be sucked in to the rhetoric by the government and popular press.

 

Yup!

Ms. Sarah Vine for the DM. Might she be known by any other names?? Such as Mrs. Michael Gove.

I bet she says "the minister" rather than "my husband" in her political puff pieces.......

 

There are also suggestions that Jeremy Hunt's photo taken with a team of doctors, taken to show him & them hard at work on a weekend : was taken on a Friday (apparently, according to rosters seen in the background of the shot).

If this is true: given that there would have been a whole team in (at some stage) during the weekend, it wouldn't have been hard to get a similar shot if Mr Hunt had wanted to go in on a Saturday ..... So, "whose at work, Jeremy?".

 

Back to the "we have no right to complain about the NHS".

I suggest "we have every right to complain within the NHS".

If wrong is done it needs to be appropriately complained about to help drive improvement (& drive it more effectively than staged Governmental photo-ops).

Then the question becomes "are appropriate complaints within the NHS 'about the NHS' "

There is "the NHS" - talking about one of its constituent parts, and "the NHS" - the organisation as a whole.

[JoeyJoeC]

In the USA, their medical bills are different if they are using insurance or not. They hike the bill massively if insurance is paying.

[think about it]

 

Back to the "we have no right to complain about the NHS".

I suggest "we have every right to complain within the NHS".

If wrong is done it needs to be appropriately complained about to help drive improvement (& drive it more effectively than staged Governmental photo-ops).

 

I honestly couldn't agree more. I've used the complaints process and I've administered it for our patients here who've had their own concerns. It's vital that we learn from mistakes and that when they happen, patients are sufficiently empowered to hold us to account for them.

 

We can't eliminate errors, but we can try to learn from them when they do happen. I do however appreciate that there may have been a less open culture in the past, however now we are continually encouraged to report issues, no matter how minor for investigation. Indeed, we have an entire system dedicated to doing just that.

 

We're not a restaurant where an error can result in a disappointing meal or an evening on the toilet, we're responsible for the health and well being (to an extent, there is always the need for people with the capacity to do so, to take ultimate responsibility) of our community, a responsibility we take very seriously indeed. Whilst I'm never happy to have to deal with a complaint, I'm always grateful that the person felt that they could raise it. Only once has a patient walked into my office and literally expected me to get the chequebook out 'to save us all the trouble of me taking this to a solicitor', she was politely advised to do just that if she felt that was appropriate; the rest, although rightfully upset and disappointed were more interested in getting answers, something I'm more than happy to go and get.

 

I openly encourage airing your concerns, but it's important to realise that no one can turn back the clock, no one can right a wrongful action or diagnosis, only try to explain what's happened, treat what's happening now and take steps to ensure it doesn't happen again, whatever they may be.

[Nystagmite]

I've used the complaint procedure a few times. Waste of time both times. I think my parents said the same thing.

[think about it]

Nystagmite,

 

in all honesty I can't say that I was happy with the result of my complaint either, it didn't take anything away from what had happened, but then I'm not sure anything but time will. I've asked a few times on here when someone's asked for advice on making a complaint what the person is looking for. I wanted an explanation, I wanted an assurance that those involved understood the impact of their (in)actions, I also wanted to know what had been learned and implemented as a result. I knew that I didn't want anyone's registration brought into question, we all make mistakes, we all fail to understand the effects of our actions in the absence of hindsight at times, but we all deserve the chance to learn from those errors.

 

For some people, their preferred outcome might be different, perhaps they want an apology, perhaps they do want someone's registration and competence to practice questioned, perhaps they're looking for financial recompense, perhaps they simply need an explanation or reasons why/why not. I think it's difficult to see value in the process if the end result they seek isn't within the remit of the process then there isn't going to be a satisfactory outcome for anyone. One thing stands true though, no amount of words, money or apologies can replace the anaesthetic that wasn't given in my case; no amount of ruined careers will right the error of a missed diagnosis or an unsuccessful operation.

 

Complaining, and the right to do so, is vital to the NHS and anything and everybody that operates under it's umbrella to be able to make the service as safe as it can be. Although how we satisfy those who've suffered as a result, I'm not sure - unless they tell me when I ask.

[Sali]

That's well said thinkaboutit.

 

Patients or their loved-ones need to be allowed to become more involved in the progress of their complaint. Where a mistake has been made, or poor care has been received, it should be compulsory to prove how (to use that old cliche) lessons have been learned. I do hope the NHS is encouraging staff to be more open and transparent. To be even asked how you can satisfy those who have suffered would be a cause for celebration. Honesty is healing.

[Sparks_]

O did in the end speak to my Doc and he said they could contact the hospital for me, I had to do it myself which I did and got the abrupt reply...yes you are on the waiting list but we dont know how long you will have to wait! that was the end of June, got a phone call a week ago to say my operation will be on the 2nd of September....just 2 days over a year of waiting! Just hope they dont cancel, like they seem to do to many who are waiting

 

Op cancelled!

[alan5044]

Hope you have now been sorted and are feeling better.

[Nystagmite]

Well, can't complain about today. Been referred for a diagnostic assessment. My appointment is mid January. Spoke to GP about 4 weeks ago.