Equita Bailiff, Do I really have to pay the fees

[karennol]

Hi all,

 

I had an outstanding council tax bill. Equita attended my house on 7th April once and added Compliance fee 42.50 and Enforcement 235.00

 

I have now paid the council in full but do I have to pay the fees. I am going to call the bailiff tomorrow.

 

Thanks

Karen

[dx100uk]

urm

 

that compliance fee looks incredibly like the sum of the 2 visit fees before the 6th april changes

 

then the enforcement fee is for after 6th april changes.

 

smells

 

go read the tomtubby threads here of recent

 

dx

[BanditQueen]

Pay the bill. Tell the bailiff to go to hell. Do not let them into the house. Tell them to send the account back to the council and ask the council to recall it. You may have to pay the fees but don't. Tell the council you have paid the bill and cannot afford the fees. Do not phone the bailiffs and do not allow them into your home. Shut and lock all doors and windows if out and make sure they cannot climb in through any open windows but get the bill sent back to the council and refuse anything to do with the bailiffs.

[tomtubby]

 

Pay the bill. Tell the bailiff to go to hell. Do not let them into the house. Tell them to send the account back to the council and ask the council to recall it.

 

You may have to pay the fees but don't.

 

Tell the council you have paid the bill and cannot afford the fees.

 

Do not phone the bailiffs and do not allow them into your home. Shut and lock all doors and windows if out and make sure they cannot climb in through any open windows but get the bill sent back to the council and refuse anything to do with the bailiffs.

 

 

 

BanditQueen

 

Whilst it is good for you to provide input into this thread it is not helpful to provide advice that is so wrong as this is very likely going to lead to an enforcement officer simply removing the debtors car ( or other goods).

 

on 6th April new (and significant) changes were introduced regarding bailiff enforcement and under the new regulations, it is extremely difficult to evade enforcement agent fees (and even more difficult to seek refunds either by way of small claims proceedings or by using the services of 'fee reclaimers').

 

I am shortly releasing a Simple Guidance to the new regulations but to answer your post and the initial query from Karennol it is important to take the example in the following post into consideration.

[brassnecked]

That compliance fee looks like Equita have visited twice BEFORE April 6th, but k eep any car(s) well away from the house or thwy will Take Control of it, as this is Equita involved they may well have already "Taken Control" of your car if you have one, or an innocent third parties motor to apply further fees., as it happened to be near your home.

 

I would suspect that when you contact the council you will get Capita who own Equita. You may well have to pay the fees

[karennol]

Thanks for all of you replies.

 

I understand that I am 'supposed' to pay the fees but can the EA enforce them at this stage? The liability order was the council's and that has been satisifed.

 

Can the bailiff come and clamp my car? Add more fees etc? We REALLY can't afford an extra £300 in fees!

 

Thanks

 

Karen

[tomtubby]

Firstly, under the new regs fees become payable at the start of the procedure taken (in other words, when the enforcement company are sent the account or when the officer attends the property in person to 'take control of goods').

 

Secondly, the term 'goods' includes money and not just a sofa, TV or motor car.

 

Thirdly, the statutory regulations have now been written to make it clear that from any goods recovered ( including money paid either to the enforcement agent OR the local authority) the Compliance Stage Fee of £70 is deducted at source). The remainder of the payment (or the proceeds of the sale of the goods) is then distributed on a pro rata basis to the local authority (creditor) and the enforcement agent).

 

The following is an example:

 

Council tax debt to local authority: £600

 

Compliance stage fee: £75 (charged to the account when letter is sent)

 

Enforcement Stage fee: £235 (charged as soon as personal visit made)

 

Total amount payable: £910

 

Debtor visits the council and makes a payment of £400

 

Council must then advise the enforcement company and credit their account with the Enforcement companies Compliance Stage fee of £75 leaving a balance of £325.

 

Of the £325 remaining this amount is then distributed on a pro rate basis between the council and the enforcement company. The actual 'split' is slightly complicated but in simple terms is around 75% to the creditor and 25% to the enforcement agent.

 

Therefore unless the entire debt (including fees due up to the time of payment) is made enforcement may continue. However, the EA cannot charge a further 'enforcement fee' (of £235) and can only charge a 'removal fee' of £110. This is easy to achieve is there is a motor vehicle on the driveway but is much more difficult if the debtor does not have a car.

 

Taking the above into consideration there is now only ONE way in which to avoid paying enforcement agent fees and this is as follows:

 

By making sure that you pay the COUNCIL before the debt is passed to an enforcement agent.

[karennol]

Oh B@gger! So the council are supposed to send the fees to the bailiff? They didn't out of the last lot of money I sent them. I paid the £920 over two installments.

 

What about the mixed up fee structure? I wrote to the Bailiff for a fee breakdown on the 8th April and they haven't replied. Can I stall them with that? I really dont have another £300. We have £4K mortgage arrears!!

 

I also responded to the council well beofre the bailiff came out and asked them to take it back because my partner is depressed. Can I appeal that the council should have taken it back on that basis and so no fees should have been applied?

 

Thanks again

[outlawla]

From briefly looking at the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014, a noticeable change from the old regs (in respect of fee allocation) is that the government or councils may no longer claim that enforcement comes at nil-cost to the taxpayer. Regulation 13(3) read in conjunction with 13(6) allows that where enforcement is outsourced the private firm will be entitled to the compliance fee (£75) from proceeds of a sale even if the amount is equal or less than the debt owed the council. Either scenario (payment equal or less) would mean a £75 sum, instead of reducing the outstanding monies owed the council must be paid to the bailiffs (sorry, enforcement agent)

 

Interestingly, by virtue of Regulation 13(5), if enforcement is kept 'in-house' the regulations provide that any outstanding enforcement fees are taken before the original debt, thus safeguarding the council's (taxpayer's) interest, whereas for outsourced enforcement, the law provides differently. Effectively what the contractor must do is go whistle for them owing to the law stating that they come last in the pecking order, or at least for fees additional to the compliance fee, i.e., enforcement (£235), disposal stage (£110) and disbursements (£?,???.00)

 

 

 

Application of proceeds where less than the amount outstanding

 

13.—(1) Subject to paragraph 50(6) of Schedule 12, when the proceeds from the exercise of an enforcement power are less than the amount outstanding, they must be applied in accordance with this regulation.

 

(2) Where the goods are sold or disposed of at public auction (other than by internet auction), the proceeds must be applied first in payment of the auctioneer’s fees calculated in accordance with regulation 9(2) or (3) as appropriate.

 

(3) Following the payment at paragraph (2), the enforcement agent may then recover the compliance fee.

 

(4) Subject to paragraph (5), following any payment due by virtue of paragraphs (2) and (3), the proceeds must be applied pro rata in payment of—

(a) the sum to be recovered, and

 

(b) any remaining amounts recoverable in respect of fees and disbursements payable to the enforcement agent in accordance with these Regulations.

5) Where the same legal person is both the creditor and the enforcement agent, paragraph (4) does not apply and the proceeds must be applied in payment of the amount referred to in paragraph (4)(b) before payment of the amount at paragraph (4)(a).

 

(6) In paragraphs (4) and (5), references to the proceeds are to the proceeds after deduction of the sums, if any, to which paragraphs (2) and (3) relate.

 

Do we assume that Regulation 13 applies where payment (less than the amount outstanding) is made or are there other relevant parts of the new regulations to deal specifically with payments paid directly into the debtors' council tax account, for example?

 

I should add that the parliament's intention appears to have incorporated an element of ambiguity and grey areas to give the justice system scope for extorting additional sums through costs orders, for example where aggrieved parties dare to challenge the interpretation of the legislation in civil proceedings.

[tomtubby]

Outlawla,

 

With regards to in-house enforcement officers, it is bizarre but since the beginning of this year the number of local authorities retaining or moving over to in-house collection has dropped sharply !!! It was commonly thought that the number of councils opting to have in house bailiff services would SOAR. However, the opposite is true.

[karennol]

Thanks again for your replies.

 

Can I appeal the £235 on the basis that I was in contact with the council informing them of my partner's vulnerability BEFORE the agent had made any visits?

 

Shall I wait to see if the bailiff attempts to enforce the fees before paying them?

 

Sorry but I am a bit confused.

[outlawla]

.....Can I appeal the £235 on the basis that I was in contact with the council informing them of my partner's vulnerability BEFORE the agent had made any visits?

....

 

Did you try appealing to their better nature?